The Most Integrated Cities of Detroit

[Retroit]

I composed this list a while ago and came across it today. I thought it might be of interest to some of you. Perhaps there is one out on the internet somewhere that we can compare it to to see how far off I am. It uses data from the 2000 US Census.

I've measured integration based on how much each cities population is reflective of the metro Detroit's population. I've only considered blacks and whites. Hispanics are a "gray area" with the Census, and since they are not a large percentage in Detroit, they were not included. Nor were those of mixed race, nor the many other ethnic groups. This may have skewed the results of some cities a bit.

The formula calculated the combined variation of each race's representation from their metro area representations of 68.7% white & 25.1% black. Metro area is defined as the tri-county region.

[P.S. This list also doesn't take into account that there may be segregation within a city.]

I was hoping to include more data, but my frustration got the best of me so I will just list the cities. Also, I had to break the list into 2 posts due to length. The list is from most integrated to most segregated [[I'm speaking of voluntary segregation, of course).

Romulus
Mount Clements
New Haven Village
Lenox Twp
Hamtramck
Auborn Hills
Van Buren Twp
Sumpter Twp
Wayne
Harper Woods
Ecorse
Taylor
River Rouge
Farmington Hills
Redford
Belleville
Westland
West Bloomfield
Canton Twp
Melvindale
Franklin Village
Bloomfield Twp
Troy
Bingham Farms
Northville Twp
Farmington
Clinton Twp
Brownstown Twp
Oak Park
Eastpointe
Romeo
Orchard Lake Village
Novi
Ferndale
Rochester Hills
Southfield Twp
Lake Angelus
Dearborn
Wixom
Leonard Village
Warren
Plymouth Twp
Grosse Pointe Park
Madison Heights
Waterford
Beverly Hills
Cesterfield Twp

[Retroit]

Lake Twp
Center Line
Dearborn Heights
Bloomfield Hills
Rochester
Roseville
Woodhaven
Sterling Heights
Hazel Park
Lincoln Park
Harrison Twp
Southgate
Riverview
Holly Twp
Oakland Charter Twp
Lathrup Village
Royal Oak
Bruce Twp
Utica
Flat Rock
Orion Twp
Pontiac
Sylvan Lake
Grosse Pointe Shores
Grosse Pointe Twp
Keego Harbor
Shelby Twp
Livonia
Huron Charter Twp
Garden City
Walled Lake
Allen Park
Birmingham
Springfield Twp
Macomb Twp
Rockwood
Clawson
Addison Twp
Fraser
Berkley
Grosse Ile
Pleasant Ridge
Richmond Twp
White Lake
Grosse Pointe Woods
Northville [[Oakland)
Rose Twp
Richmond
Novi Twp
Plymouth
Wyandotte
St. Clair Shores
Grosse Pointe City
Huntington Woods
Gibraltar
Commerce Twp
New Baltimore
Northville [[Wayne)
Oxford Charter Twp
Oxford Village
South Lyon
Grosse Pointe Farms
Washington Twp
Trenton
Clarkston
Lyon Twp
Milford Twp
Brandon Twp
Wolverine Lake
Milford Village
Lake Orion
Armada
Memphis [[Macomb)
Ray Twp
Armada Twp
Ortonville
Southfield
Inkster
Royal Oak Charter Twp
Detroit
Highland Park

[lilpup]

What was your formula?

[Retroit]

What was your formula?

I was hoping you wouldn't ask because I don't know how I am going to post the numeric formula in a deciferable way, so I'll try to decribe it.

I took the difference between each city's percentage of each race and the metro's percentage of each race and divided that by the metro's percentage of each race. Then I took both of those factors [[one for each race) and added them together.

I'm not sure how statistically accurate that is, but the results seem about right. If anyone else has another formula or would like me to "manipulate" the data in any other way, I'm willing to try.

[Johnnny5]

Something is not quite right with your list. Last time I checked Milford Twp was about 97-98% white, yet if ranks on your list as less segregated than Detroit and Southfield?

[Retroit]

Something is not quite right with your list. Last time I checked Milford Twp was about 97-98% white, yet if ranks on your list as less segregated than Detroit and Southfield?

But remember, each city is measured against the metro, and the metro is not 50% white / 50% black, but rather 69% white / 25% black. So while Milford seems heavily weighted white, Detroit & Southfield are much more heavily weighted black.

In other words, the ideal percentage for each city would be 69% white / 25% black [[assuming integration is desired), and Milford is more representative of that than Detroit or Southfield.

[EastsideAl]

It looks like your formula really overweights majority black cities as "segregated." I notice that the bottom 5 places in your list are all majority black, but certainly both Detroit and Southfield contain significant white minority populations. They would seem to be much more "integrated" in any rational sense of the term than many of the almost entirely white-populated communities further up your list. What you're measuring sounds more like the deviation from a rather arbitrarily defined "norm," rather than actual integration in any real sense.

[gazhekwe]

What Al said.

I don't think you can call a place 'integrated' regardless of population figures if you don't assess how the population within the place is distributed. And why would 25% people of color be "ideal"? Last I checked, the Detroit MSA or whatever they call it these days, was over 40% minority group people.

[EastsideAl]

But remember, each city is measured against the metro, and the metro is not 50% white / 50% black, but rather 69% white / 25% black. So while Milford seems heavily weighted white, Detroit & Southfield are much more heavily weighted black.

In other words, the ideal percentage for each city would be 69% white / 25% black [[assuming integration is desired), and Milford is more representative of that than Detroit or Southfield.

But a city that is 54% black and 39% white, as Southfield was in the 2000 census, is absolutely more "integrated" than a place that is 97% white like Milford. It may deviate further from the overall composition of the area, but that doesn't make it less "integrated" or more "segregated" in any way that makes rational sense.

[hudkina]

Any proper study would put Hamtramck on top. I think a better title for your study would be which city is the most representative of Metro Detroit's black/white makeup.

[lilpup]

It looks like your formula really overweights majority black cities as "segregated." I notice that the bottom 5 places in your list are all majority black, but certainly both Detroit and Southfield contain significant white minority populations. They would seem to be much more "integrated" in any rational sense of the term than many of the almost entirely white-populated communities further up your list. What you're measuring sounds more like the deviation from a rather arbitrarily defined "norm," rather than actual integration in any real sense.

His norm is not arbitrarily defined. It reflects what the uniform distribution of black and white across the entire region would be. Since blacks are a minority in the region any cities that are large majority black have the greatest deviance from the norm.

[Retroit]

I understand what you all are saying. I'm making the assumption that people are much more likely to move from one city to another city within metro Detroit than they are to move in and out of metro Detroit. So any integration would have to take place within the confines of metro Detroit. I know that is unrealistic, but I don't know how to create a list without that restriction.

If metro Detroit were 99.99% white and 0.01% black, it would be unrealistic to expect a city to have a 50/50 ratio. The best we could hope for would be a 99.99/0.01 ratio. In fact, a 50/50 city would be segregating toward the whites who could be living there, and would cause all the other cities to be less integrated.

I just don't see comparing each city to a 50/50 ratio as practical. If every city were expected to be integrated, we would need to import 1.7 million black people to metro Detroit. I think our goal would be to have each city reflect the metro population that is already in place.

But I appreciate the input and am willing to modify the formula if I can be convinced.

[gazhekwe]

If you are going to compare the figures for the entire metropolitan area, according the the US Census, reporting in 2006:

non-Hispanic white persons make up 69 percent of the population
non-Hispanic black persons make up 23 percent
Hispanic, all races, make up 4 percent
Asian, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islanders -- 3 percent
American Indian and Alaskan Natives -- < 1 percent
Other -- 1 percent

[Mikeg]

Methodology aside, I fail to see the point of this exercise. Is it somehow better to live in a community that for whatever reasons happens to more closely match the tri-county's 68%/25% ratio of two races? Are we looking to achieve a proportionally balanced integration outcome in every tri-county community or are we working to insure that every Michigan resident has equal opportunities for education, jobs and housing and let the community demographics reflect their individual choices?

[Mackinaw]

I think it requires more case-study and small-scale analysis to find integrated places, rather than looking at census numbers for large land areas. For example, we know Detroit as a whole is heavily black, but one can identify several diverse and integrated neighborhoods within it. For the suburbs, the stats often paint a bleak and mostly true picture of a lack of integration, but you can still find neighborhoods within them that are quite integrated. Off the top of my head, one would note that Grosse Pointe Park and Farms are both 90 percent white, but if you zoom in on western GP Park or GP Farms near Mack-Warren, you'd see someplace that's much more integrated than the rest of the metro area. The same can be said for some other suburbs. As a general matter, I think there will be some better signs as to integration in the '10 census.

That said, I would not pretend to say that metro Detroit is as integrated as it should be, rather, it is one of the most segregated places in the country, still.

[2blocksaway]

[quote=Retroit;

In other words, the ideal percentage for each city would be 69% white / 25% black [[assuming integration is desired), and Milford is more representative of that than Detroit or Southfield.[/quote]

I would not assume integration is desired anywhere around here. Detroit, Milford, wherever.

A lot of people talk a good game but when it comes down to it many prefer a safe distance from other races.

There is no shame to it either. We just need to be honest with ourselves and others and admit that more often than not we feel more comfortable with people of out own race.

[gazhekwe]

That may be true, but, as a member of a group that has less than 1% representation here, I can tell you that comfort level comes with application. In other words, the more you live in any particular area, the more comfortable you become with the other inhabitants, regardless of their race, IF they are of similar lifestyle.

Where lifestyle differences spill out into the community, a preponderance of nightowls vs a quiet family, or a preponderance of big dog owners vs non-pet lovers, it will cause discomfort and the people in the minority will feel better seeking a different neighborhood. If we looked at that rather than color, things could get very interesting.

[iheartthed]

This...doesn't...make...sense...

[terryh]

It's one thing for a city to be integrated but the question is are the integraters interacting and socializing with one anothers? In Ferndale and Royal Oak I notice integrated groups of kids and teens hanging out together.

[Retroit]

Considering the number of times I've been labeled a "racist" on this forum, I find it odd that I am now defending integration, but to answer Mikeg and others, yes, I absolutely do think that it is better to live in a community that reflects the population as a whole. Of course, people should feel free to move wherever they wish, but the fact that people continue to segregate themselves indicates that we really do see each other as different. I guess I am as guilty as anyone, as I would feel uncomfortable living in an all black area, but I'm also not comfortable that I feel this way.

gazhekwe raises an interesting point on "lifestyle". Which brings us back to the points I raised in the "Whew, what's happening in Macomb County" thread on the differences between typical black and white culture. What are those cultural/lifestyle differences that make us desire segregation? What are those differences that make us desire to be integrated with races that are different from our race, if any? How is achieving integration different from "[ensuring] that every Michigan resident has equal opportunities for education, jobs and housing."? In other words, if we know that white communities generally have better schools, more jobs, and better housing, then isn't integration a sign that blacks are receiving equal opportunities.

[gazhekwe]

Living in a place with better schools and better economy may be a good thing, but if you are a minority person who does not "fit in" and if you feel discriminated against by the majority population, the better opportunities are going to be hard to access. Those gates do close on you. I have been watching gates of opportunity open and close all my life.

In my home town, I was followed around the stores by employees who suddenly seemed overwhelmingly motivated to rearrange merchandise next to whatever I was looking at. In my hometown, I was an obvious member of the minority population that was looked down upon by white people. To me, it seemed futile to go to that store and apply for a job. That is just an example.

Many young people in my community, though attending the same school, were not given the same opportunities as white students. Why should the teachers or counselors bother? They thought "They" never go to college and "They" can't really learn well.

[Retroit]

^ Very true, but it is also true that your minority presence in such places provides an opportunity for the majority to come to the realization that you are no different than them and that they are wasting their time believing so. By your absence, their prejudice remains undiminished.

And to belatedly answer your question on 25% black vs. 40% minority, I originally intended to take all races into account, but it became a mess. First, the Census numbers were not very definitive. Second, I would have had to enter a lot more information. Third, most other races make up such small percentages, I thought it would only make the calculations more cumbersome, and provide insignificant changes in the results. Fourth, I think the predominant racial divide in metro Detroit is along black & white lines, so I chose to focus on that. And sixth, I'm lazy.

[6nois]

This is bunk. The first reason is although people do choose were they live, choices are dictated by a variety of things, and I doubt that most of those times the dominating factor is race. Factors include price, can one afford to live in said community, I think looking at economic indicators may show you more about the region than race, the region is extremely divided on the basis of income. Another factor is commute time where do you work in relation to where do you live. Lifestyle do you fit in socially with your neighbors, do you have similar beliefs and do you practice similar actions. Amenities access to city services, as well as establishments that you frequent. These are all huge factors. As well as power, will you be full represented in the city you live in.

Really when it comes down to it as others were saying the key is looking at smaller land areas, neighborhoods to see integration. A city may be statistically correct but that really doesn't mean anything. Also I am not sure achieving total statistical balance is the key to improving race relations or providing any sort of change in terms of race issues in the Detroit Metro region.

[Retroit]

^ If what you said is true, I think Detroit would be more integrated than it is. But let me discuss each of your points:

1. That the region is extremely divided in terms of income. I don't think that is the case. Yes, we have ultra-wealthy areas [[Grosse Pointe Shores, Bloomfield Hills) and ultra-poverty areas [[inner-city Detroit), but I think as a whole, the region could be described as middle class. Same could be said for housing prices. Yet, it is more likely that a black person would buy a $120,000 home in a black area [[or close to a black area) than a $120,000 home in a white area. The same could be said for a white person.

2. Commute time. There are a lot of black Detroiters that work in the [[white) suburbs due the lack of jobs in Detroit, yet they don't live there. Likewise, most of the white people that work Downtown do not live near their place of work.

3. Lifestyles, fitting in, beliefs and actions, establishments frequented. This may actually prove my point, more than disprove it, i.e. these factors are more uniform within a race than inter-racially.

4. Amenities, city services, power, representation. I can't think of any that wouldn't be equally desirable to both blacks and whites no matter where they live. So the only reason black people would choose to live in a city that lacks those, like Detroit, would be because they chose not to have them, which I don't think is true.

5. Neighborhood as opposed to whole city. I totally agree. But this is not possible to do with the Census data and a couple hours of spare time. Since most cities, especially the smaller ones are fairly well integrated, I thought a simple disclaimer would save me an inordinate amount of time canvasing every street of metro Detroit.

6. Statistical balance. But isn't integration a matter of statistical balance though?

7. Total statistical balance. Of course, I don't think we should start forcibly relocating people till every street is 69% white and 25% black, but I think it is a noble goal to work toward accepting diversity and even seeking diversity.

So, I am not sure if we are more in agreement or disagreement, or if I am just "bunk" for bringing up the subject, but I do think you brought up some interesting points.

[lilpup]

Retroit, I think you should take a look at Olivier Zunz's book The Changing Face of Inequality: Urbanization, Industrial Development, and Immigrants in Detroit, 1880-1920.

One of the things Zunz discusses is what holds communities together and what happens when those commonalities break down. Zunz's work shows that historically the final thing that separates people in the Detroit area is socio-economic status.

In the past immigrant neighborhoods were unified by their cultural, and particularly language, differences from others. The neighborhoods held all income and status levels - menial worker to esteemed professional. However, once the cultural differences between neighborhoods faded the separator became socio-economic status as those with money moved away, historically north out of the city. This is what we are seeing now in the black community - those with financial standing are separating themselves from those without. The factor of skin color is becoming less relevant than financial and quality of life issues.