Is Michigan Screwed?

**Bill07073** · March-20-11, 07:02 AM

See attached video by Racheal Maddow. She makes some interesting comments re the new powers of the financial managers and their possible effect on local Michigan Governments. Again I neither support nor oppose her comments but include them as food for thought. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUpO1QFMDtM

**Meddle** · March-20-11, 07:10 AM

I don't pay attention to blabbermouths.

**JohnnyFreddy** · March-20-11, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I don't pay attention to blabbermouths.

...So what you're saying is....you don't give any credence to people with
a voice, that see through bullshit rhetoric by bullshit Governors, who
ARE taking away our rights. Didn't anything she said, or any of the protests
being held, persuade you to believe that 'Democracy' ......is actually
a 'GOOD' thing, whether you choose to agree or not. Whether you understand
what is going on or not. Whether you like the way a person presents themselves,
such as Michael Moore, or, Rachel Maddow.....they have the RIGHT to speak
the truth, as they see it.
Is that what you think makes her a blabbermouth 'Meddle' ?
Do you also refer to the political analysts that espouse to your particular point
of view, as 'Blabbermouths' ?
Or do you just...simply...dislike the cut of her jibe?
I guess it's really not so much that you obviously don't like her, for whatever reason...It's more like I simply can hear your infatuation for the Republican
ideal, resting condescendingly....just below your pompous surface.
Governor Synder is a conniving, lying, back room wheeler dealer, whom chooses
to rape the citizens of Michigan, of their 'rights', and their 'future'.
Pay attention to that.

**313WX** · March-20-11, 09:05 AM

Take it to the off-Topic section where there's already long thread about what Rachel Maddow said.

**davewindsor** · March-20-11, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyFreddy

Governor Synder is a conniving, lying, back room wheeler dealer, whom chooses
to rape the citizens of Michigan, of their 'rights', and their 'future'.
Pay attention to that.

What rights are being given up? Union rights? The governors right to create legislation that can veto municipal union collective agreements? The only raping is done by unions. Haven't you union guys caused enough mess in this city? Just look around you.

BTW-it's still a democracy. The governor is elected. If you don't like him, don't vote for him when he comes up for re-election. Hopefully the majority are smarter than that, and I think they are because they voted him in to begin with.

**English** · March-20-11, 10:51 AM

Michigan has been screwed for a while. What's new?

**davewindsor** · March-20-11, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Proslack

so this once again is all about "business", not the fact that your voting rights are yanked from you, not the fact that an appointed individual can unanimously terminate your elected officials at their own discretion. This is all about big business and not the individual? You mentioned nothing about "the people". Typical republican

What I think you keep missing is that it's an elected official that's appointing people to do the job under him. You can't elect everyone that works for the government. That would be incredibly inefficient. It's a lot more efficient to elect someone that can hire their staff.

For example. we don't elect police officers to service the public. We elect somebody who appoints somebody under them to appoint people as police officers. As long as there is a group of people at the very top of everything that are elected, it's a democracy and "the people" are represented. The governor was elected, not appointed. That's representing the people. Thus, I fail to see how voting rights are yanked. In fact, it's a moot point and doesn't even matter what you say, the majority of citizens elected him to do this; otherwise, he wouldn't be there doing what he's doing now.

**davewindsor** · March-20-11, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Proslack

so you are the first to willfully admit that this legislation is geared toward Detroit and not failing municipal governments as a whole. Thank you for finally stating the obvious

Are you putting words in my mouth now? Detroit is a good example, but it is geared to all failing municipal governments in the state by definition of that legislation, not just Detroit. .

Buy American · March-20-11, 02:22 PM

Recall Adolph Snyder!

**rid0617** · March-20-11, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

I don't pay attention to blabbermouths.

I'm with you. I refuse to listen to commentators who have made their career stirring hate and discontent be it loony MSNBC or Faux news

**mwilbert** · March-20-11, 02:50 PM

the majority of citizens elected him to do this;

That is highly questionable. They elected him to be governor, but that doesn't mean they were in favor of any specific policy he might decide to implement.

**maxx** · March-20-11, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

That is highly questionable. They elected him to be governor, but that doesn't mean they were in favor of any specific policy he might decide to implement.

They just trusted his secret plan.

**Locke09** · March-20-11, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

What rights are being given up? Union rights? The governors right to create legislation that can veto municipal union collective agreements? The only raping is done by unions. Haven't you union guys caused enough mess in this city? Just look around you.

The governor never had a right to appoint someone who could veto or cancel collective bargaining agreements. The governor also never had a right to create any legislation at all. The Republican legislature created a new law allowing the governor to appoint someone who could cancel collective bargaining agreements.

People have a right to feel that laws have been created to trample on their rights: their right to elect local officials who will run things for them, their right to have an existing contract honored, their right to bargain in good faith [[which you cannot really do so long as someone has "absolute power"), etc. They have a right to protest and they have a right to recalls and they have a right to vote differently the next time. They have a right to claim that they were betrayed by a supposed "Nerd" who really was a very clever politician who hid his ultimate plan. He probably would not have been elected had people known what he was going to do. Hence his lower approval rating so soon into his tenure. [[Only 54% even have a favorable opinion of him. That's down 5% just since January. His rating is down from 40% to 26% among Independents since January). Sounds like more than just unionized Democrats feel betrayed.

**davewindsor** · March-20-11, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by Locke09

The governor never had a right to appoint someone who could veto or cancel collective bargaining agreements. The governor also never had a right to create any legislation at all. The Republican legislature created a new law allowing the governor to appoint someone who could cancel collective bargaining agreements.

People have a right to feel that laws have been created to trample on their rights: their right to elect local officials who will run things for them, their right to have an existing contract honored, their right to bargain in good faith [[which you cannot really do so long as someone has "absolute power"), etc. They have a right to protest and they have a right to recalls and they have a right to vote differently the next time. They have a right to claim that they were betrayed by a supposed "Nerd" who really was a very clever politician who hid his ultimate plan. He probably would not have been elected had people known what he was going to do. Hence his lower approval rating so soon into his tenure. [[Only 54% even have a favorable opinion of him. That's down 5% just since January. His rating is down from 40% to 26% among Independents since January). Sounds like more than just unionized Democrats feel betrayed.

That's what you think. The Governor has the right to appoint someone who could veto or cancel collective bargaining agreements; otherwise, he wouldn't be able to enact legislation to do it. I'm glad someone finally has the balls to represent the majority and do the right thing instead of letting the political arena be dominated by union special interest and seeing rising unemployment and more businesses leave the state..

As for the approval rating, are you talking about this Free Press Article that quoted EPIC/MRA of Lansing that was based on a sample of 600 people ? http://www.freep.com/article/2011030...rs-latest-poll

Sorry Michigan has a population of 10 million people. I disagree that 600 is anywhere near adequate enough of a sample. That's like a miniscule fraction of a percent and there's a lot more union teetletottlers than that.

Even so, those approval ratings stated that Republicans gave him a rating of 72%. The majority of people must now be Republicans if they elected him and a rating of 72% sounds pretty high in my books.

**socks_mahoney** · March-20-11, 10:28 PM

I don't think Michigan is screwed at all. Michigan is the womb of workers and poor people's struggle. I think Snyder and the rest of the newly elected Republic Governors [[who, as an aside, are very very well organized) have awoken a sleeping giant in the children of unionism.

We're not screwed if we're just as organized as those who seek to take from us the power that rests in the very exercise of our most democratic right, to elect local officials and to run the education of our children. Thomas Jefferson's proposed townships as the most powerful form of protection against authoritarian rule. Mr. Snyder, an admittedly shy wealthy nerd, is trying to take lifeline of democracy away.

Wake up Michigan. WAKE UP!

We're only screwed if we refuse to wake up and commit to the peaceful actions that are necessary to take back our democracy.

NorthEndere · March-20-11, 10:36 PM

I love conservative Canadians. They so badly want to live vicariously through our insane conservatives, because their own would never get away with what their American brethren do down here in the States.

It'd be cute if it weren't so very sad, bless their crazy hearts.

**Locke09** · March-21-11, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by davewindsor

That's what you think. The Governor has the right to appoint someone who could veto or cancel collective bargaining agreements; otherwise, he wouldn't be able to enact legislation to do it. I'm glad someone finally has the balls to represent the majority and do the right thing instead of letting the political arena be dominated by union special interest and seeing rising unemployment and more businesses leave the state..

As for the approval rating, are you talking about this Free Press Article that quoted EPIC/MRA of Lansing that was based on a sample of 600 people ? http://www.freep.com/article/2011030...rs-latest-poll

Sorry Michigan has a population of 10 million people. I disagree that 600 is anywhere near adequate enough of a sample. That's like a miniscule fraction of a percent and there's a lot more union teetletottlers than that.

Even so, those approval ratings stated that Republicans gave him a rating of 72%. The majority of people must now be Republicans if they elected him and a rating of 72% sounds pretty high in my books.

If the governor had this right prior to the new law, then we wouldn't have needed the new law would we? Previously, a municipality could only do this [[void contracts) if it filed for bankruptcy. That is the way it should remain. You should not be able to unilaterally void a financial obligation that you have contractually agreed to without declaring bankruptcy. Regular citizens cannot do it and corporations cannot do it.I can't just go to the people I owe and tell them I make less money so they have to accept less of what I already contractually agreed to pay them. I have to wait until I pay off the existing debt, wait until an agreement expires, negotiate a new agreement [[not force one) or file bankruptcy.

And again, governors don't create legislation [[you originally said the governor had a right to creat legislation). Legislators create legislation. Yes, they might be acting based on the wishes of the governor, but if they don't create it, and then get it passed by both houses, the governor has nothing to sign [[enact). So, the legislators gave the governor a new right by expanding the power of the EFMs that he appoints.

Whether you like it or not, the majority of people do not agree with Snyder on many of his new measures. Many have expressed a feeling of betrayal. He has a right, as governor with his party controlling both houses, to steamroll over the people if he so desires. And the people have a right to protest the tire treads if they so desire.

**Danny** · March-21-11, 11:39 AM

Snyder and his Republican goon squad scewed up Michigan the most.

Buy American · March-21-11, 11:46 AM

I have a stupid question.

If the EFM's have the right to come into any City in Michigan and remove "elected" officials, wouldn't they be able to remove a governor?

bartock · March-21-11, 11:55 AM

Danny you keep talking about Republicans when Andy Dillon - a Democrat - is one of the spearheads. This is not as partisan as you might think.

Anyway, I realize the source is an obvious question, but there are some decent points in here:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...2_347889_7.pdf

Mr. Houdini · March-21-11, 12:20 PM

"Is Michigan Screwed?"

Yes.

**mwilbert** · March-21-11, 12:54 PM

600 is an adequate sample statistically. By your logic, no sample would be adequate because the sample is of people who aren't saying what they think. Asking more people wouldn't help.

**Danny** · March-21-11, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Danny you keep talking about Republicans when Andy Dillon - a Democrat - is one of the spearheads. This is not as partisan as you might think.

Anyway, I realize the source is an obvious question, but there are some decent points in here:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sn...2_347889_7.pdf

REPULICANS in the Michigan State Legislature will and always screw politics up. They got to go so that Democrats and Independents can take over the clean up their mess. Engler mess this state cutting mentally ill hospitals letting po'folks and mutants roam free and miserable in Michigan cities and towns.

Today Snyder screw this state up by cutting education, wants to get rid of the film incentive programs, eliminating revenue sharing, cutting few senior discounts. Now he's signed the EFM bill into law making them instant DICTATORS over all public school districts, state unions, cities, townships, villages. The NERD must go and protesters are still in Lansing pounding the doors at the state capital. Snyders' goon squad in the legislature help put those rediculous bills into law and We MICHIGANDERS must appeal it the U.S. Supreme Court NOW! What's next for the future foe Michigan? Is Snyder is going Medicaid for the poor the low-income famlies or cutting for public funding for service agencies for the proletariats? We must keep Snyder for running a next term for 2013 for Governor of Michigan. He must be replaced!

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Down with the NERD! Down with REPUBLICANS! Long live Socialism. Long live Democracy.

Neda, I miss you so.

**mwilbert** · March-21-11, 03:19 PM

I took stats in university and I think these are not representative because the sample is too small and inherently biased to show Governor Snyder is not on the right track when he really is.

The sample size is fine. If the sample is biased it doesn't matter how big it is. Nor can a poll determine whether someone is on the right track; it is just an indication of whether or not people think he is.

**Locke09** · March-21-11, 04:57 PM

His approval rating is declining so quickly because he has control of both houses and is pushing his plans through quickly. These are plans he had all along. But he never revealed any details because he most likely would not have gotten elected if he had.

To modify that quote you used from Mark Twain: "There are lies, damned lies, statistics and slick politicians masquerading as nerds.