Detroit vs. "The Suburbs"... in reality

[nickstone]

You know, this is just an observation from talking to a lot of people, listening to a lot of the crap from politicians, having lived in the city now for a few years, and some other experiences... and I don't want this to be anything other than what it is... when [[primarily black) Detroit dignitaries start issues about Detroit vs. "The Suburbs" have you EVER heard any of these people be resentful of something good working out for Southfield? When Arturo's opened in Southfield, not only did I never hear Detroit politicians calling this out as another development outside of the city, but having performed there many many times, I used to see Kwame and other government members there ALL THE TIME. If I'm not painting a clear picture, my point is this... the people who start these issues, I don't think they have genuine dislike for the suburbs, just for primarily [[or historically) WHITE suburbs. I don't want to ignite a fire, this is just an observation mixed with a theory... any thoughts?

[Detroitnerd]

You do know who owns Arturo's, yes?

[Retroit]

It's simple, nickstone, they are Race Mongers. Black leaders prey upon the ignorance...ahem, the lack of equal educational opportunities... of black Detroiters by convincing them that all their problems can be blamed on those white, racist, wealthy, evil suburbanites. These so-called leaders know this is not true and this is often reflected in their private lives. But when it comes time to preach to the masses [[i.e. pander to the voters), the old Race Monger playbook comes out, the script is read, and the leader is whisked away by Black Muslim bodyguards.

And the foolishness continues...

[kraig]

You do know who owns Arturo's, yes?

I think the State of Michigan is going to give them a catering contract that's going to be free, or, cost $11,000.00 a month.

[rajdet]

OK here we go again... Let’s just end this for once and for all. A tag team of Monica Conyers and Martha Reeves vs. L Brooks in one of those octagon cage thingies. We can sell tickets and the proceeds go to the restoration of Cobo.

[Irvine Laird]

When it comes to the marketplace, race is economic or political currency. It always has been in this country. To those in positions of power, it is not personal; it is "just business."

[DetroitDad]

Some years back, my work near Midtown outsourced a repairman. The guy had to be let go because he refused to travel across 8 Mile to go to the Home Depot. It was Sunday, the problem needed to be fixed as soon as possible and back then that was the closest open hardware store.

You do have to look at where he is coming from. Many white suburbanites will drive right up to the border of Detroit, but will never cross it. Detroit businesses in general are sometimes discriminated against. There are many mostly white suburbanites who won't do business with Detroit businesses at every level, or all tings being equal, will at least choose non-Detroit competition when given the opportunity.

This may or may not be racism. I imagine many sheeple are still afraid of outsiders and people who look or act different. However, the sad truth is that much of that reputation might be warranted by so many people being screwed over by past Detroit owned businesses. Downtown and the immediate area has seen improvements, but how many suburbanites would ever venture just across the borders, on the outskirts? This problem is one reason you are in a poorly invested in area once you cross the Detroit borders. It is a frustrating situation for many of the people who live in Detroit.

[LodgeDodger]

You do know who owns Arturo's, yes?

Okay, I'll bite. Who owns Arturo's?

NO! I can't believe I hadn't yet heard that! Thanks, Detroit.

[Locke09]

Art Blackwell

[MIRepublic]

Isn't this question really kind of easy to answer? Detroiters don't much mind suburbs whose leadership doesn't incessently antagonize and scapegoat them for their own problems, and Southfield is just one of many inner-ring suburbs [[both majority black and majority white ones) that the city doesn't have many problems with. The city works well with the suburbs that want to work well with them. But, thanks for trying to make it all about race, though, Nick. How predictable.

[jtf1972]

OK here we go again... Let’s just end this for once and for all. A tag team of Monica Conyers and Martha Reeves vs. L Brooks in one of those octagon cage thingies. We can sell tickets and the proceeds go to the restoration of Cobo.

Does there have to be a winner?

[detmsp]

Isn't this question really kind of easy to answer? Detroiters don't much mind suburbs whose leadership doesn't incessently antagonize and scapegoat them for their own problems, and Southfield is just one of many inner-ring suburbs [[both majority black and majority white ones) that the city doesn't have many problems with. The city works well with the suburbs that want to work well with them. But, thanks for trying to make it all about race, though, Nick. How predictable.

oh come on now. it's a two way street. detroit can't blame all the problems on racist suburbs and the suburbs can't blame it all on detroit. it's a collective problem in our region and both sides are to blame.

[MIRepublic]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything Nick was talking about. Nick thought he was making a clever insinuation [[and, one based off of just about nothing tangible) that Southfield is never talked about, or that when it is it's talked about neutrally or favorably, because it's majority black, and he was called on it. His so-called "reality" is about as "real" as MTV's Real World until he can show without little more than insinuating that Detroit only has friendly relations with the few black-majority suburbs in the region.

Detroit has friendly and cooperative relations with all kinds of surrounding municipalities. If he wants to make slanderous insinuation about the city, otherwise, than the burden of proof is on him, the one that made the claim. If, in fact, you rarely hear about Southfield from Detroiters it's because Detroit only responds negatively to those places that have initiated unfriendly relationships with it.

[nickstone]

wow... strong stuff there! Well, you're right in that I can't offer proof... there's no way for me to prove that I've never heard something right? So you've got me there.

Although I have to quote "But, thanks for trying to make it all about race, though, Nick. How predictable." Have I created a track-record for myself of always making things racial? That would be the only thing that would make my comment predictable.

But... well, let me put it this way... has ANYONE ever heard anyone in Detroit politics say word one about Blackwell [[which, yes of course I'm aware that he owns it), who LOVES THE CITY [[and, well, Highland Park I suppose too), having put his club four miles into the SUBURBS? After all, the Jay Leno free shows having been in the suburbs created weeks of controversy.

[devman1983]

I'm kind of straying from your main point in the thread, but the key difference between Detroit and the suburbs is education. But the paradox here is that even if the education system in Detroit were to be fixed - the culture cannot. It isn't "cool" to be smart. When I look down my street and see yet another fatherless child who has 3 or 4 siblings, I know they have little chance. I see the same thing happening and the same cycle repeating itself. How can you change a culture of ignorance that is outbreeding the rest?

[Retroit]

devman1983, I couldn't have said it better. And believe me, I've tried! [[ref: thread on blacks moving to Macomb County)
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So, let me see if I understand this correctly. Arthur Blackwell stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from Highland Park while serving as Emergency Manager and opened up a jazz club in Southfield. Is that correct?
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I agree, nickstone, there is a double standard. "White suburbs are bad, but black suburbs are not. But let's just pretend that there is no such thing as black suburbs, and maybe no one will ever notice." - So say the Race Mongers.

You have exposed one of the most foolish lies that is being constantly perpetuated by the Race Mongers: that Detroit would succeed if it were not for the selfishness and racism of the suburbs. It is good to see this myth being disproven by every black family that moves out of Detroit, every black business owner [[however corrupt) that opens up a business outside of the city, and every suburb that becomes black but does not devolve into a black hole.

As a Macomb County resident, myself, the large black immigration has only occurred in recent years. Southfield, and other black suburbs, are a world away, but are refreshing examples that prove that the black culture of Detroit is not necessarily being carried to the suburbs.[[...well, except for Art Blackwell, but he was from Highland Park, so I suppose that doesn't count.)

[EastsideAl]

I love how some folks here like to act as if all this has happened in a historical vacuum.

I hate how some other folks, on both sides, like to act as if history never changes.

[nickstone]

thank you for understanding my points... i'm not trying to ignite a racial issue, just trying to comment on the kind of casual conversation I've heard

[exdetroiter]

The only Detroit politicians whom seem to run with the race card of Detroiters vs suburbanites was Kwame and foreverlasting Conyers. So, what has occurred causing this topic, today?

[Locke09]

The original premise of this discussion is faulty.

This thread begins with the assertion that [[primarily black) Detroit dignitaries have a genuine dislike for all suburbs that are primarily/historically white, but not for those that are now majority black [[e.g. Southfield). It further asserts that they are resentful when anything good happens for those suburbs. It alludes to the motivation for that resentment being racial.

Detroit "dignitaries" do not dislike any suburbs and are not resentful just because something good happens for a suburb. Detroiters dislike suburban officials who they believe have historically developed policies that sought to disenfranchise or exclude Detroiters [[not saying whether they are right or wrong, just that this has been their belief on occasion). An example would be when Detroiters resented Dearborn officials for attempting to exclude "non-residents" from Dearborn parks. Detroiters knew that Detroit could never say, at that time, that only Detroiters could use Belle Isle, so Detroiters understood this exclusionary tactic by suburban officials for what it was and resented it.

Detroit dignitaries also resent it when businesses or events move from
Detroit to the suburbs, any suburb. That is only logical. Suburbs would also resent it if a major business moved from their city to another. They would not celebrate the other city's good fortune.How much criticism did Compuware receive for moving to Detroit from the suburbs? Did the city they moved from rejoice and congratulate Detroit? How about when Quicken Loans talked about moving? Any city losing people and businesses like Detroit is will start to resent anyone for luring more people, events and businesses away from them.

When the Detroit Lions and Detroit Pistons were in Pontiac, Detroiters resented it. When the Pistons moved to Auburn Hills and the Lions moved back to Detroit, Pontiac resented it. What's so complex about any of that?

[kit1007]

Does there have to be a winner?

Is biting and and scratching going to be allowed? What about sitting on someone, with those combos this could be Lethal ?

[Danny]

Detroit and suburbs is all part of the Urban Donut Theory. A big Black ghetto surrounded by Big White suburbs. Detroit and its Black ghettohoods is like a mentally instituted prison without walls. It's like living the consectration and internment camp all rolled up in one. The flow of drugs, alcohol gangs and "Liquor Stores" contribute to this institutional prison. Domestic violence, crime and fear is the law. In the meantime the clean white " Levittown" suburbs means that people are living free. I do mean white folks. Where they could drive the hockey mom and baseball dad S.U.V's to a "sprawl-mart" and buy corporate junk.They don't need to worry about the problems in Detroit's plight, they just imagine that it doesn't exist. It's like living in Nazi Germany with no sight of Jews and Blacks. White folks want to keep their suburban empire in their way that is pleasant and safe; even they have to fight for value of their cookie cutter homes to keep up with the Joneses and living like the Cleaver family.

[2blocksaway]

Danny,

Please have the sense to realize that any of Detroits neighborhoods are made of cookie cutter houses too.

Have you ever driven in any of the neighborhoods that don't have home and garden tours?

Block after block of bungalows, equally set back from the street and very similar in shape. Probably build days apart.

I hate how so many people just bash the burbs because there are tons of houses there that look alike and pretend that Detroits neighborhoods are all so unique.

[DetroitDad]

Danny,

Please have the sense to realize that any of Detroits neighborhoods are made of cookie cutter houses too.

Have you ever driven in any of the neighborhoods that don't have home and garden tours?

Block after block of bungalows, equally set back from the street and very similar in shape. Probably build days apart.

I hate how so many people just bash the burbs because there are tons of houses there that look alike and pretend that Detroits neighborhoods are all so unique.

Detroit has suburbs in city proper. Much of what is outside of the Grand Boulevard Loop is sub-urban, though more urban than most suburbs.

[English]

I love how some folks here like to act as if all this has happened in a historical vacuum.

I hate how some other folks, on both sides, like to act as if history never changes.

100% agreed. We've been having this conversation in metro Detroit since I was born more than three decades ago. I had hoped we'd all move on and figure out how to get out of the hole we're in, but I've washed my hands of it. Let's just all go on hating each other as hard as we can for the next 50 years and see how that works out for us. Sheesh.