Is it time for the courts to toss out the Tamara Greene lawsuit

[R8RBOB]

After another dog and pony show in which Norman Yatooma digs up past characters from the Kilpatrick administration and publicly calls them liars one has ask; is it time for the court to bury this dead dog and throw out the case?

I, like many other Detroiters wold love to know with certainty that there was a "party" and it was at the Manoogian Mansion. I think we want to believe that Strawberry was dancing at said party and that she was giving the then mayor a lap dance. We want to know if Carlita showed up and proceeded to beat Strawberry as suggested by rumors and we want to know if the actions of that party played a role in her death.

We have nothing. Just the same old shit said by the same people alleged to playing a role in the cover-up. Yatooma is continuing this sham for his own interest. There is no smoking gun. A witness that can be connected to Kwame Kilpatrick and say "yes all those things happened" and he or she has nothing to lose is what Yatooma needs yet he keeps introducing the same old characters and that is why the case needs to be thrown out unless Yatooma can properly find new evidence or witnesses outside the Kilpatrick gang.

[RedeemerKid]

I know a guy in a pretty well connected Wayne County position. He's in a position to know a lot about the investigations. He is impeccably neutral.

To paraphrase, here's his take which I think makes total sense.

No evidence of a party ever taking place as has been characterized and rumored. It just didn't happen that way. Did the Mayor entertain at the mansion? Sure. Probably had his crew over plenty. But nothing like the rumored party that we hear about.

There's plenty of evidence that the Detroit PD mishandled the murder investigation of Tamara Greene, including lots of pertinent info just missing. However, if you audited 100 investigations in Detroit, you'd see a similar mishandling in a LOT of cases. So while it was mishandled, there is no evidence to suggest that someone intentionally hosed it up. It was just hosed as is par for the course. Incompetence would not result in a favorable verdict for Yatooma. Conspiracy would. But it seems more like incompetence.

As for Kwame's missing e-mails and such, he seems to have gotten a bit paranoid in the later part of his term as mayor and destroyed all of his communication records, as best he could. The ones he could not [[Skytel), he is suing. Kwame probably had plenty to hide [[hence the destruction of records), but nothing really pertinent to Tamara Greene's murder investigation. The city was again perhaps incompetent in terms of backing stuff up. But again, incompetence does mean conspiracy.

While this makes sense, it isn't the plot-line many thought would play out, including myself.

[bartock]

After another dog and pony show in which Norman Yatooma digs up past characters from the Kilpatrick administration and publicly calls them liars one has ask; is it time for the court to bury this dead dog and throw out the case?

I, like many other Detroiters wold love to know with certainty that there was a "party" and it was at the Manoogian Mansion. I think we want to believe that Strawberry was dancing at said party and that she was giving the then mayor a lap dance. We want to know if Carlita showed up and proceeded to beat Strawberry as suggested by rumors and we want to know if the actions of that party played a role in her death.

We have nothing. Just the same old shit said by the same people alleged to playing a role in the cover-up. Yatooma is continuing this sham for his own interest. There is no smoking gun. A witness that can be connected to Kwame Kilpatrick and say "yes all those things happened" and he or she has nothing to lose is what Yatooma needs yet he keeps introducing the same old characters and that is why the case needs to be thrown out unless Yatooma can properly find new evidence or witnesses outside the Kilpatrick gang.

Completely agree. While there are some things we do not know [[not much, anymore), it is free advertising for Yatooma and obviously loves the camera.

Yatooma has another interest, however, that I have not seen mentioned much in the press. His father was murdered years ago outside of a convenience store in what was described as a carjacking. It was never solved, to my knowledge.

[JohnnyFreddy]

I 'm not so sure this lawyer, Yatooma is so self-serving. Sure, we ALL want to make our living,
but he seems righteously interested in some justice for this woman's death.
Now the family...that's a different subject, but I don't know any of the players in this game.
There WAS a party. I know a couple who lived across the street from the Kilpatrick's, and
the Manoogian House. Said they used to see the family all the time. Used to greet the Mayor
almost every morning, whilst retrieving their newspapers at the end of their driveways.
"Yeah, there was a party, for sure." "Because I remember all the cars, and all the noise,
and ALL the body guards!!!" [[a big contentious subject amongst the Mayors neighbors).
"What, I'm supposed to get all involved in this circus, because I say there was a 'Party' ?"
"No way man, no way."
So you see, no one figures anything they say is going to make a difference...because what
they know is 'Not Enough'.
What about Catering for this event? There's no reason The Mayor had any idea this was gonna
go down the way it did. Why not figure he would utilize his favorite Caterer to work this function.
Research this, and pressure the Caterer to come forth, at the threat of serious repercussions
if they don't spill. Booze delivery. This man liked to roll 'High Class', which means a formal, real
scenario, with bells and hoops all over the house, bringing only the very best for his guests.
You think Tamara 'Strawberry' Green was the ONLY entertainment that day? These events
usually call for more than one girl, you dig. Don't you think Carlita has friends? Pressure them
women to spill yo. There is always somebody that will talk.These people aren't doing their footwork.

[R8RBOB]

Completely agree. While there are some things we do not know [[not much, anymore), it is free advertising for Yatooma and obviously loves the camera.

Yatooma has another interest, however, that I have not seen mentioned much in the press. His father was murdered years ago outside of a convenience store in what was described as a carjacking. It was never solved, to my knowledge.

Oh I am aware of Mr. Yatooma's father being gunned down and he and Jonathan Bond have a bond knowing that their parents were gunned down and the murderer was never found. But Yatooma's attempt to bring justice to Tamara Greene via Kwame Kilpatrick is just a wild goose case. If I was a lawyer and I was handling this case then the goal for me would be to hire a private investigation firm to review the murder of Tamara Greene since the cops aren't trustworthy and try to find the murderer to bring them to justice. If the killer was connected to KK then that's your smoking gun.

To take a step further, if Yatooma had a case and he knew that Kilpatrick covered this up and played a role in the death of Tamara Greene then that is conspiracy. I would pressure Kim Worthy to open an investigation to determine if Kilpatrick can be charged with conspiracy to murder. But this will not happen for one reason: Yatooma has no evidence of any party, a alleged beating, the murder or the cover-up.

[JohnnyFreddy]

No, this ain't over 'til somebody rolls over.
This is MURDER people.
This case should remain active, until one of these smart ass police/bodyguards
...sworn to uphold the law... comes forth and does the right thing.
"Are you scared little boys?" "Does the big bad Kwame Kilpatrick have you
tossing in your sleep? "Or is this just, how YOU roll."
...Man, to have to live like that, under that cloud.
You might as well go into a different line of work.
We really would prefer you didn't 'stay on' after all this.
You're THUGS...just like any other.
Confess...we'll forgive you this once...then move on.

[R8RBOB]

I 'm not so sure this lawyer, Yatooma is so self-serving. Sure, we ALL want to make our living,
but he seems righteously interested in some justice for this woman's death.

Justice for Tamara Greene would be seeing her killer[[s) and those indirectly involved locked up for life. Trying to squeeze a buck from the city on hearsay is not justice but trying to get paid. Yatooma love being in front of the cameras just like Geoffrey Fieger.

[Kevgoblue]

I 'm not so sure this lawyer, Yatooma is so self-serving. Sure, we ALL want to make our living,
but he seems righteously interested in some justice for this woman's death.
Now the family...that's a different subject, but I don't know any of the players in this game.

What? So you in all your supreme knowledge and vision have decided that Yatooma is the one who is personally concerned about Greene's death? But that her family isn't.
Wow. You're a piece of work

[Motor City Sam]

I don't know, it looks to me like the City did attempt to obstruct the investigation. Al Bowman's lawsuit itself gives some credence to that theory. In fact, they are basically obstructing the progression of the lawsuit, with their "we can't find this" followed by "Oh, here it is, we found some of it" MO. Remember, the City can't even get it's story straight about what happened to the KK's computers. The city lawyer said that it was destroyed and Kwame comes out a couple of days later and says he gave it to Cockrel.

Given what we know about the character and past conduct of people like KK and Ella Bully, not to mention the unethical behavior of the City's law department in the past, it seems to me that it is worth seeing this out to the end. This isn't someone trying to get a settlement for a slip and fall. The underlying crime is a murder. And since the suspicion is that the DPD did not actively pursue the investigation, this seems to be the only recourse that the family has.

[Carey]

JohnnyFreddy: The party supposedly happened in the fall of 2002, right? It has been investigated by every media outlet in town, the Michgan State Police, DPD, Wayne County Prosecutor's office and the state attorney general's office. No one came up with any solid, firsthand EVIDENCE that there was a party. Yatooma has produced two people who say they attended, but both are mentally ill. Do you really think the supposed caterer holds the key to this mystery?

Kwame Kilpatrick sits in prison, and faces a very serious federal indictment, based on EVIDENCE like bank statements and text messages and the testimony of sane people. There is lots of evidence that Kwame is a very corrupt person. But after 8 1/2 years, can't you accept the concept that the party is, indeed, "urban legend?"

[CLAUDE G]

I think its time to put an end to this case. Yatooma is just beating a dead horse at this point and is wasting everyones time.

They should be looking for the real killers, instead of trying to extract money from the city.

[R8RBOB]

I think its time to put an end to this case. Yatooma is just beating a dead horse at this point and is wasting everyones time.

They should be looking for the real killers, instead of trying to extract money from the city.

I have to agree. First, find the killer[[s), put them on trial and then if it proven that the city and police botched the case then sue. This idea of suing the city yet there never has been anyone charged with this is ass-backwards.

[rb336]

Has Mr. Yatooma ever provided evidence that the emails he is fishing for actually existed? His entire case seems to be built on hearsay and rumor

[kraig]

We all have to remember that this is a civil lawsuit, not a criminal case. The proverbial smoking gun that would be needed in a criminal case isn't necessary in this one. It comes down to a case of whether people will believe that the Kilpatrick witnesses are telling the truth or not. And let's face it, with all of the text messages that have come out since the Gary Brown case, which I might remind everyone was won without a smoking gun, Team Kilpatrick's credibility is shot.

It's not likely that a convicted felon, convicted of lying in court no less, is going to be viewed as credible. Couple that with missing evidence and the fact that the corporation counsel that's defending the City also has credibility issues and a track record of lying to judges and Yatooma's case has a better than average chance of success.