Central Detroit Hotels - How many do we need?

[schulzte]

To sustain a redeveloped Cobo Center? We have 9 proper business class hotels in Central Detroit, and 3 more that could be reopened/refurbished. The 9 we have now are

Marriott Ren Cen
Westin Book Cadillac
Fort Shelby
Athenium Suite
Courtyard by Marriott
Hilton Garden Inn
MGM Grand
Greektown
Motor City

Hopefully the Omni Riverfront can be reopened soon, while the Ponchartrain would seem to be a good opportunity for redevelopment once Cobo has been renovated. I know the Holiday Inn Express is still open under a different name, but I've heard its going down hill fast. I didn't count Windsor because I don't know how often visitors use those due to the border and passport issues.

Cobo Hall is one of the largest exhibition spaces in the United States right now; so hopefully by 2014 it will be put to good use 52 weeks a year like convention centers in other cities are. I know the existing hotels in downtown are struggling with an oversupply of rooms right now, but the updated Cobo will need all of them and more to attract more conferences to the city

City-----------Hotels*-----------Square Feet**
Atlanta---------20---------------1,400,000
Houston-------13-----------------853,000
Dallas----------12-----------------725,000
Detroit----------8------------------700,000
Philadelphia---31----------------679,000
Denver---------19----------------584,000
Indianapolis---21----------------567,000
Salt Lake City-20----------------515,000
St. Louis-------16----------------502,000
Minneapolis---22----------------480,000
Pittsburgh-----13-----------------390,000
Kansas City----5-----------------388,000
Cleveland------11----------------375,000
Phoenix---------5-----------------312,000
Baltimore-------21----------------300,000
Charlotte-------14----------------280,000
Tampa-----------8----------------200,000
* Within 1 mile of Convention Center
** Sq. Feet of Class 1 Exhibition Space
***Did not include Coastal Cities, Chicago, or Las Vegas for comparison.
This list would be primarily non-tourist cities.

[davewindsor]

Dallas----------12-----------------725,000
Detroit----------8------------------700,000
.

I don't get it. So, you're saying Detroit needs 12 hotels instead of 9 because Detroit is like Dallas Texas? Or what are you basing this demand on? Is there an actual report or are you just throwing out random comparisons? There's a lot more factors that effect hotel room demand than just renovating a building.

[CLAUDE G]

I think we need some more decently priced hotels in Detroit. The rates the MGM, Motor City, Greektown, Book Cadillac and the Rencen are charging are crazy high

[Hypestyles]

more modestly priced facilities are needed, but still high quality.. what would it take to get a Red Roof, Motel 6, Best Western, etc., downtown or near...?

[3WC]

How many hotels? I'd say you have too many the way it is.

However, one needs to ask the correct questions. It's not how many hotels each city has, it's how many rooms, average occupancy rates , average room rate amenities, and are they profitable?

The number of hotels "required" is a financial issue and of course no one on this forum has anything close to the financial numbers and their quality so cannot make even a so-called educated guess as to market requirements.

When a new hotel is needed, someone who knows something about the business will build one. But based on past history [[the guy who build your closed Hilton Garden, and other developers) someone who doesn't know what they're doing will be the one to build,re-open or renovate one.

[DetroitDad]

The hotels that have closed so far, were caught in the middle. They fell short of appealing to the higher end crowd once the new hotels and bed and breakfasts came on line. At the same time, they could not appeal to the crowd looking more at price, as nearby competition had just made complete renovations, bringing them up to standards of the time. But, the nail in the coffin was the opening of the Greektown Hotel, which were direct competitors, with pricing in the $100 range. Up until that point, other Downtown hotels were using casino packages with Greektown.

While not walking distance to the Downtown [[People Mover) Loop, there are several other hotels which have impacts that were not negligible. Here's a partial list, leaving out "economy" one or no star grade motels. There are at least a dozen of those ultra economy motels in the area.

Lodging with higher standards in the Grand Boulevard Loop:

1. Comfort Inn [[Rooms remodeled)
2. Shorecrest Motor Inn [[Rooms remodeled)
3. Stay Inn [[Complete renovation with an indoor pool and conference center)
4. Corktown Inn
5. Inn on Ferry Street [[Bed and Breakfast)
6. Hotel Saint Regis [[New Center)
7. Milner Hotel [[Downtown, some rooms remodeled)

Lodging in Downtown Windsor:

1. Casino Windsor Hotels [[2)
2. Travel Lodge
3. Hilton Windsor
4. Radisson Riverfront Tower
5. Comfort Suites
6. Quality Suites
7. Ramada Plaza Suites
8. Holiday Inn
9. Days Inn

[wolverine]

The number of hotels has a lot more to do with the presence of large companies downtown and business travelers. You could literally count the number of large office towers in the downtowns listed and draw a relationship between the number of hotels posted.

Right now the Ponchetrain should get open and operating again. What a huge embarrassment to have an abandoned hotel Right Next Door to your convention center.

[softailrider]

The number of hotels has a lot more to do with the presence of large companies downtown and business travelers. You could literally count the number of large office towers in the downtowns listed and draw a relationship between the number of hotels posted.

Right now the Ponchetrain should get open and operating again. What a huge embarrassment to have an abandoned hotel Right Next Door to your convention center.

Most people are looking for suite type hotels, not just rooms like the Ponch offers. Also, don't forget that the Ponch was / has been a dump for the better part of three decades.

[wolverine]

^ Yes, so renovate it into a suite-type hotel then.

[schulzte]

Has there been any talk about renovating and reopening the Ponchartrain? I realize the last thing the existing hotels want right now is more rooms on the market, but the hotel could be bought on the cheap right now, be remodeled and take advantage of the new Cobo Center traffic two to three years from now.

Do the Windsor hotels really count for Detroit business and convention travel? It seems like it would be a pain to deal with Customs just to get across the river and go to Cobo Hall for a convention. I don't think one can just catch a cab and cross the border.

[davewindsor]

Do the Windsor hotels really count for Detroit business and convention travel? It seems like it would be a pain to deal with Customs just to get across the river and go to Cobo Hall for a convention. I don't think one can just catch a cab and cross the border.

Trust me, there's a lot of Americans that spend the night in downtown Windsor, for safety reasons, if not for the amazing Detroit skyline.

You can cross the border for 4 bucks using the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel bus. Runs every half hour.

[cmubryan]

The Pontch [[Riverside Hotel in its most recent life) WAS renovated, albeit cosmetically in 2008. Considering the hotel has been closed for a year and a half, I am willing to bet the rooms are still in great condition. The thing that plauged the hotel was a lack of money to keep the hotel running after the renovation and the fact that the hotel needs a mechanical overhaul.

[Hypestyles]

... is it an option to convert the ponchartrain to apartments/condos?

[wolverine]

The Pontch [[Riverside Hotel in its most recent life) WAS renovated, albeit cosmetically in 2008. Considering the hotel has been closed for a year and a half, I am willing to bet the rooms are still in great condition. The thing that plauged the hotel was a lack of money to keep the hotel running after the renovation and the fact that the hotel needs a mechanical overhaul.

I just looked up the current listing for the place with recent photos. The rooms look pretty good, but the banquet facilities looked only slightly updated. I think another pass at renovating the public areas would redeem this hotel for certain.

... is it an option to convert the ponchartrain to apartments/condos?

With a major gut rehab maybe. The ceilings are fortunately at a decent height, but units would long parallel to the facade after removing partitions. Would it be profitable? Assuming you leave the rooms as is, most of the building would be small studio apartments. The rooms are pretty small in comparison to most modern hotels.

[DetroitDad]

The number of hotels has a lot more to do with the presence of large companies downtown and business travelers. You could literally count the number of large office towers in the downtowns listed and draw a relationship between the number of hotels posted.

Right now the Ponchetrain should get open and operating again. What a huge embarrassment to have an abandoned hotel Right Next Door to your convention center.

Yes, prices skyrocket during the week in Downtown Detroit. Weekends are the cheap times, assuming there is no overly large event occurring on that weekend.

[CLAUDE G]

... is it an option to convert the ponchartrain to apartments/condos?

I don't even think the rooms are big enough for that. The zig zag glass on the front make the rooms almost as bad as the Marriott in the Renosance center