Failed plans to build a domed stadium on the riverfront

[R8RBOB]

This morning, I saw this on Slate http://www.slate.com/id/2286746/slid...2286783/fs/0// and I would like to ask the older posters if they remember plans for this. It looks like it would have been build where the current Riverfront Apts. are located. I think it would have been impossible to host all four Detroit teams but it would have been interesting as hell for them to try it.

[401don]

Thank God this fell through. Although it would be time to replace it by now, all cities have come to realize that the multi-purpose stadiums just give you lousy stadiums for each sport. Here in Toronto, they combined the worst of everything, the last multi-purpose stadium combined with a retractable dome that doesn't allow for real grass to be installed.
I didn't remember plans for the Wings to play in this proposal. There is no way you could re-install the ice in time with all the overlapping for baseball/football.

[Planner3357]

Good Lord thats bad. "Everywhere I look, something reminds me of her." - Lt. Frank Drebin

[R8RBOB]

Thank God this fell through. Although it would be time to replace it by now, all cities have come to realize that the multi-purpose stadiums just give you lousy stadiums for each sport. Here in Toronto, they combined the worst of everything, the last multi-purpose stadium combined with a retractable dome that doesn't allow for real grass to be installed.
I didn't remember plans for the Wings to play in this proposal. There is no way you could re-install the ice in time with all the overlapping for baseball/football.

I remember when Toronto opened SkyDome. It was praised as the standard for future stadiums being built. I suppose a stadium is only good until the next stadium is built.

Back to Detroit, it was good this never happened but it would have made things a bit interesting on the riverfront and in Detroit sports. The Lions and Pistons left in the 70's and the Wings were on their way though I don't believe they would have left right away. I doubt the Silverdome could have been capable to host football, basketball and hockey at the same time just like this domed stadium wouldn't been able to host all four teams.

[DetroitPlanner]

Goodness this was 45 years ago! Why are you even debating something that never happened generations ago?

[cman710]

I remember when Toronto opened SkyDome. It was praised as the standard for future stadiums being built. I suppose a stadium is only good until the next stadium is built.

Yes, the SkyDome was considered a marvel at the time,a nd the Blue Jays drew huge crowds for a while after the stadium opened. Unfortunately, the SkyDome was really at the tail end of what I guess I would call the "modern" idea of stadium building, and so now it does not look as great. Compared to the SkyDome, the Tigers did pretty well with Comerica.

[R8RBOB]

Goodness this was 45 years ago! Why are you even debating something that never happened generations ago?

Who is debating anything? I asked if anyone knew about these plans.

[sirrealone]

I remember when Sky Dome opened, it was the coolest thing. Then, I remember going to Toronto with a buddy sometime in the late 90's and seeing it and thinking how ugly it was, basically a square box. Baltimore and Cleveland have been scraping the bottom of the barrel in the MLB for years now, but they should be forever thanked as it was Jacobs Field and Camden Yards that began the renaissance of baseball stadiums.

[R8RBOB]

Yes, the SkyDome was considered a marvel at the time,a nd the Blue Jays drew huge crowds for a while after the stadium opened. Unfortunately, the SkyDome was really at the tail end of what I guess I would call the "modern" idea of stadium building, and so now it does not look as great. Compared to the SkyDome, the Tigers did pretty well with Comerica.

I remember when SkyDome opened, there was a lot of cheerleading going on because they had such amenities such as a hotel and Roberto Alomar was staying in one of the suites. Stadiums and arenas when built are sold as "state of the art" and construction marvels but in the end they are nothing more than "lipstick on a pig."

[BrushStart]

I think hockey and basketball can be harmoniously played in the same stadium without sacrificing the conditions for either sport.

[R8RBOB]

Someone wondered why I would debate about something that never happened and it was a long time ago. For the record, I was born in 1970 and I wasn't hip on things pertaining to Detroit in 1972. [[Duh) That said, this is the first time that I was aware that there was talk about building a domed stadium on the Detroit riverfront. I was simplying asking if any of the older posters were aware of it and what was the opinion of the day about it.

[R8RBOB]

I think hockey and basketball can be harmoniously played in the same stadium without sacrificing the conditions for either sport.

Yes they can play in the same arena. I do wonder if Coleman Young had proposed to build Joe Louis Arena before the Pistons decided to move to Pontiac would Bill Davidson had stayed in Detroit. I believe he would have still left.

[DetroitPlanner]

Who is debating anything? I asked if anyone knew about these plans.

Get ahold of Building of Detroit by Hawkins Ferry earlier plans for it are in there along with the rest of the Civic Center by Serriean.

[Detroitnerd]

The mistakes of past generations are legion when it comes to shore property. First it was used for industry. Now, actually, at the time, it made sense: Water was the cheapest if not the only way to transport goods over long distances [[pre-1830s). Then they started laying down rail lines along the riverfront because of the even pitch. Another mistake. Building roads along riverfronts is yet ANOTHER mistake, all the worse because it's a repeat of the railroad age. Building big-ticket stadia on riverfronts is another error, because nobody gets to see the water, especially from [[duhhh) from a DOMED STADIUM. It's probably because of the architect's ego, the city fathers' warped sense of pride and ...

... the fact that, apparently, nobody has ANY IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH A WATERFRONT! At least in the post-shipping age. What it should be is a freakin' PARK. A promenade.

Of course, from the year 2011, we know a little better. And we can look back on these plans as silly.

Here's another plan from that era, 1958, actually, for Pittsburgh. It's even worse, IMHO:



Brought to you by the minds at NADCO Engineering Co., Pittsburgh 27: A proposed stadium OVER the Monongahela River, billed as a “classic structure that will blend with the Renaissance of Pittsburgh!” Completely self-liquidating! No tax loss! No land acquisition! Capacity of 70,000! Majority under cover! A 600-room hotel with gourmet restaurants! Parking stalls for 4,500 cars! World’s largest covered boat dock! Beautiful gardens overlooking river! Plus 100 air-conditioned bowling alleys! Wow!

[1KielsonDrive]

I like what San Francisco did after the earthquake of the late 80's. They looked at the crumbled freeways running along the waterfront and the Embarcadero and came to the conclusion they were a mess. Gone! No rebuld. Then they extended the trolley lines from Market Street to Fisherman's Wharf and over to Third Street, the CalTrain station and their new stadium. Very nice.

[bailey]

I like what San Francisco did after the earthquake of the late 80's. They looked at the crumbled freeways running along the waterfront and the Embarcadero and came to the conclusion they were a mess. Gone! No rebuld. Then they extended the trolley lines from Market Street to Fisherman's Wharf and over to Third Street, the CalTrain station and their new stadium. Very nice.

Yes it's amazing how helpful massive natural disasters can be. Any fault lines running under detroit we can use?

[Detroitnerd]

Yes it's amazing how helpful massive natural disasters can be. Any fault lines running under detroit we can use?

Unfortunately, the fault along Eight Mile is non-seismic...

[R8RBOB]

I like what San Francisco did after the earthquake of the late 80's. They looked at the crumbled freeways running along the waterfront and the Embarcadero and came to the conclusion they were a mess. Gone! No rebuld. Then they extended the trolley lines from Market Street to Fisherman's Wharf and over to Third Street, the CalTrain station and their new stadium. Very nice.

I arrived in California in 2000 and I remember driving down the Embarcadero towards Fisherman's Wharf. I can only imagine how ugly that area looked having an double-decker freeway along the Embarcadero. If anyone watches Charmed, they were always showing wide-shots of SF and you would see the old double-decker.

[R8RBOB]

The mistakes of past generations are legion when it comes to shore property. First it was used for industry. Now, actually, at the time, it made sense: Water was the cheapest if not the only way to transport goods over long distances [[pre-1830s). Then they started laying down rail lines along the riverfront because of the even pitch. Another mistake. Building roads along riverfronts is yet ANOTHER mistake, all the worse because it's a repeat of the railroad age. Building big-ticket stadia on riverfronts is another error, because nobody gets to see the water, especially from [[duhhh) from a DOMED STADIUM. It's probably because of the architect's ego, the city fathers' warped sense of pride and ...

... the fact that, apparently, nobody has ANY IDEA WHAT TO DO WITH A WATERFRONT! At least in the post-shipping age. What it should be is a freakin' PARK. A promenade.

Of course, from the year 2011, we know a little better. And we can look back on these plans as silly.

Here's another plan from that era, 1958, actually, for Pittsburgh. It's even worse, IMHO:



Brought to you by the minds at NADCO Engineering Co., Pittsburgh 27: A proposed stadium OVER the Monongahela River, billed as a “classic structure that will blend with the Renaissance of Pittsburgh!” Completely self-liquidating! No tax loss! No land acquisition! Capacity of 70,000! Majority under cover! A 600-room hotel with gourmet restaurants! Parking stalls for 4,500 cars! World’s largest covered boat dock! Beautiful gardens overlooking river! Plus 100 air-conditioned bowling alleys! Wow!

That stadium in Pittsburgh would have never worked because it would be an island. The domed stadium on the riverfront was a pipe-dream but somehow someone remembered it years later because the domed stadium turned into an arena on the riverfront.

[Gistok]

Get ahold of Building of Detroit by Hawkins Ferry earlier plans for it are in there along with the rest of the Civic Center by Serriean.

Did you mean Saarinen??

The father [[Eliel) or the son [[Eero)??

[stasu1213]

We have our domed stadium with great potentials. It is called Ford Field. Would be nice if the Piston could play a game or two in that stadium.

[lilpup]

The NCAA proved Ford Field is way too big for basketball.

One of the real problems with stadia on riverfronts is access. Cincinnati Riverfront stadium was a bear to get to. Getting to Joe Louis is tolerable but if it was as large as arenas typically are for other pro sports it would be a nightmare.

Wasn't it here that a b-ball floor put down over ice in a dual-use situation had warping or condensation issues?

[Dbest]

I don't know if anyone else clicked on the link that appeared at the end of Tiger Stadium's date of playing existence in quotations? I didn't expect it to be anything of real value or anything I might not already know about the stadium. I was wrong, it was short piece done by some writers from the Detroit News back in 1999 when "Tiger" hosted it's last game.


The article consisted mostly of short quotes from people down at the ballpark on Sept, 27,1999. I've shed some tears for Tiger in the past but this article re-opened deep wounds. Detroiter's LOVED their baseball palace! Somebody made sure to take it away and foot the city with a bill for a new stadium. For any of you Tiger Stadium fans who were able to view the movie "Stranded At The Corner"[[great Tiger Stadium documentary that pulled no punches) it is clear what happened...


Stasu1213, The time to of had the Pistons play a game downtown would have been 4-5 years ago, when they were actually GOOD and Contending. I personally would NOT want them to play a game downtown anytime soon. The reason being because nobody will show up and it will give the anti-Detroit stadium crowd extra leverage when Detroit residents have to vote on a stadium referendum for the Pistons or Pistons/Red Wings depending how things go in terms of the sale.

Now if your wondering why the Pistons have yet to play at Ford Field? Look no further than the three owners of these franchises since Ford Field was built.

First the pistons, Bill Davidson[[ now deceased but the Jewish businessman was owner until last year), Karen Davidson[[assumed control and possession of team after Bill's death) have been the only two owners. William Clay Ford[[age 86) has been the Lions owner for way too long as we all know. W.C.F. is the youngest grandchild of Henry Ford[[accused of Antisemitism) the well known auto pioneer, Draw your own conclussions. Maybe when we get a new owner devoted to moving the team back downtown regardless of what it takes

[Jason]

Actually, I think it's a shame that this wasn't built, or that at least the Joe wasn't built like this [[it's hard to imagine ALL of the sports being played there).

First, this arena is better integrated into the city, and you can imagine Fort Street becoming a popular sports bar and restaurant area. You can walk from the arena to the businesses, and in between there's some plaza space which could be used for pre and post game public celebration. As the Joe was built, you can't walk to anything, and there's not really any good gathering spot outside.

Right now the site of the arena is occupied by Riverfront Towers which were a token project by Taubman, and something was going to get built one way or the other. Wayne County Community College also occupies part of the site [[the former platform overpass for the demolished train station). WCC would have just picked a different site, or maybe even the same one. Then there's some parking lots, some empty lots, and parking garages. So there was no loss.

This would have opened up space behind Cobo for expansions. At the time of this proposal, the 80s expansion hadn't happened yet, which required demolishing the blocks north of Larned, and this would have been prevented.

[R8RBOB]

Actually, I think it's a shame that this wasn't built, or that at least the Joe wasn't built like this [[it's hard to imagine ALL of the sports being played there).

First, this arena is better integrated into the city, and you can imagine Fort Street becoming a popular sports bar and restaurant area. You can walk from the arena to the businesses, and in between there's some plaza space which could be used for pre and post game public celebration. As the Joe was built, you can't walk to anything, and there's not really any good gathering spot outside.

Right now the site of the arena is occupied by Riverfront Towers which were a token project by Taubman, and something was going to get built one way or the other. Wayne County Community College also occupies part of the site [[the former platform overpass for the demolished train station). WCC would have just picked a different site, or maybe even the same one. Then there's some parking lots, some empty lots, and parking garages. So there was no loss.

This would have opened up space behind Cobo for expansions. At the time of this proposal, the 80s expansion hadn't happened yet, which required demolishing the blocks north of Larned, and this would have been prevented.

I'm curious if this proposal could have worked. I do wish they have built Joe Louis at a different location and perhaps the location that proposed domed stadium would have been a better choice because the arena would had a direct access road [[Fort) to reach it. JLA was built on an island which made it very unattractive. I did realize something today. Metro Detroit has had a love affair with domed stadium for as long as I have been born.

Had JLA been built where the proposed stadium would have been then there would have been no question that the land currently occupied by JLA would have been utilized by Cobo.