Are You Prepared, Pt. IV [The Gas Prices Thread]

[Crumbled_pavement]

Gas most likely will be $5 a gallon before summertime hits. What will you do? Will you support more mass transit? Will you walk, bike more? Will you just go bankrupt with the vast majority of Americans? Our economy is truly in a dangerous place and is only hanging on by a thread. Not just us, the whole entire world. Are you prepared?

http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/26/news...rices/?npt=NP1
http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...gas22_ST_N.htm

P.S.: List the cheapest gas stations around that you know of.

$3.45 at Marathon Gas Station on Seven Mile/Telegraph [[up $0.12 from just yesterday)

[DetroitPlanner]

http://detroitgasprices.com/

How is this a uniquely Detroit issue?

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, well. Everything's gonna be fine. We don't need mass transit. We can still drive everywhere. We can all still afford to drive an hour to work because ...

... oh shit ... we're screwed ...

[Planner3357]

Regular $3.52 at Costco on 13 Mile and Stephenson Hwy. I fill up there when I need to as I work in Waterford and live downtown.

Unfortunately, my car requires Premium which is $3.72

[Tig3rzhark]

Today, I hauled ass back on my bike again. I haven't been on it since January.

The feeling was reassuring since I was in the FTW mood today. My mom offered to help me get a car if I can go six months without having a seizure, which I'm trying to do. However, I have more of a reason to ride my bike again with winter coming to an end.

I definitely need to get it fixed quickly since riding it during the winter can cause many problems with the parts. I should have been more prepared, but it's too late for regrets. I have to learn from them now.

I wouldn't be surprised if the gas prices were @ $5 a gallon by May. My bike should be in good shape by then. Although there are bike racks on both DDOT and SMART buses, not all the DDOT buses have them.

Yes I will have more of an incentive to bike more, not just to lose some weight, but to save what little money that I have left.

[Danny]

Who want to pay 5.00 for a gallon of gas? Surely folks who live WAY WAY WAY out from 50 mile Rd. willl have to. They have to get to work, shop and play in merry merry automobile. You all can go right ahead and blame the Arab conflict in the Middle east or some oil corps fo them mess. There's NOTHING you all could do to stop their black gold mess. Go buy a hybrid. I think the Chevy VOLT would be a likely good ideal to save tons of money on gas.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

I as watch the glory days of the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang's going to the junk heap!

Neda, I miss you so.

[Crumbled_pavement]

I wouldn't be surprised if the gas prices were @ $5 a gallon by May.

This is what I expect as well.

DetroitPlanner, it's not uniquely a Detroit issue, but we don't want to share the cheapest gas prices for any gas station in the country. We're focused on the cheapest gas prices in Metro Detroit.

P.S.: Thanks for the link.

[mwilbert]

I expect gas will not reach $5/gallon this year. Not that it is impossible; it could absolutely happen, but it would take a pretty severe supply disruption. However, I won't be a bit surprised to see that as a fairly normal price within 5 years.

The only way most Detroiters can reduce their oil consumption significantly is by changing something about how they drive--distances, vehicles, fuels. If you were planning to take a vacation that involves a long flight, you might want to do that sooner rather than later, because if gas gets that expensive flights will be scarcer and more costly. You can probably wait to buy your house in Ferndale, but you should start looking if you don't like CNG powered cars.

[Detroitnerd]

Electric cars or hybrids aren't the best answer, unfortunately. They're neat innovations that allow an individual or a household to save on gas, but by helping maintain a car-only region they ultimately hold us back from better, broader social responses such as conservation, mass transit and density ...

[bartock]

This may be unpopular, but is limiting private vehicle driving really tied to that much gasoline consumption? Personal conservation is good, but for the average driver in Michigan [[believe it or not we are in the bottom half in per capita usage), a one or two dollar hit gas by itself may be absorbable for a while. But, add to it the fact that $5 gasoline smacks everyone in transportation of goods costs. The price of EVERYTHING goes up, even if buying local from local producers. Trickle down theory always works when the prices are going UP.

Now, if the military stopped using fuel for awhile...

[Crumbled_pavement]

But, add to it the fact that $5 gasoline smacks everyone in transportation of goods costs. The price of EVERYTHING goes up, even if buying local from local producers. Trickle down theory always works when the prices are going UP.

Bingo! This is what I'm most afraid of. Gas prices will end up squeezing everyone and causing the price of just about everything to rise. This is where most of the harm to our economy would come from.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41845694...s_and_economy/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41846460...s_and_economy/

[DetroitPlanner]

In general you will find lower gas prices in the Saginaw Valley and in Toledo. Those who are going on out of town trips should look to fill-up when in those locales. In Metro Detroit prices are generally uniform except for the area I refer to as Bloomingham Hills [[Farm Hills to Bloomfield Hills) and by Metro Airport where prices are always higher.

Saginaw Valley roughly starts in Northern Flint and ends around Bay City. Toledo has a higher gas tax but the gasoline is always quite a bit less expensive there. It may have something to do with being close to the refineries or added sales taxes.

A few years back I paid close to $5 a gallon up in Gaylord, which is way outside of metro Detroit. The per barrel cost now has been stable over the last week at arounf $100. Back when it was over $4, oil was peaking at about $150 a barrel.

Expect the cost of groceries and other things to get impacted too.

[401don]

If gas hits 5 bucks, prices soar, the economy tanks [[no pun intended), demand drops and gas prices fall.
Next problem?

[Russix]

Time to reread "The Long Emergency"!

[SWMAP]

Yay! Detroit will be alright because we have the land/water to grow a lot of food and can pay less for it than people who have to transport food a long way. Let's get Hanz Farms up and running.

We will all become locovores but there are already a lot of them that we can learn from.

I live only three miles from my work and I guess I could try to ride a bike to work.

[iheartthed]

If gas hits 5 bucks, prices soar, the economy tanks [[no pun intended), demand drops and gas prices fall.
Next problem?

Not exactly. Now we've got two very large countries that are rapidly developing a broader middle class [[both countries are several magnitudes the size of the United States, so they can consume a LOT). As they develop they also consume more energy. In the case of China, they have a government that is centralized and willing to heavily subsidize energy in order to keep its economy going. So a drop off in demand in the U.S. doesn't necessarily equal a broad drop in energy prices.

[iheartthed]

It's very hard to say whether gas will hit $5 by summer, or this year at all. But this should serve as yet another reminder of how inadequate the Detroit area transit options [[and really the country as a whole) are to absorb shocks like this...

[Gistok]

Gotta love this little tidbit....

"Analysts expect prices to continue rising over the next few days, since gas prices typically lag trends in the oil market."

Gas prices typically lag??? Since when??

Also, the expanding Marathon refinery is where all our gas comes from [[regardless of brand)... I have noticed that the prices nearby [[such as Dearborn) are always lower than farther out [[such as Oakland and Macomb Counties).

[Jimaz]

I've been a member of DetroitGasPrices.com for a few years now. Lately they've begun sending emails to members whenever they expect a local price hike. Their predictions have been surprisingly accurate. It's worth the free membership just for that.

Another feature is their gas price charts where you can see the history of local, state and national gas prices and crude too. Sometimes you can spot patterns where prices gradually fall over about five days then suddenly jump over two days then the cycle repeats. It's easy to buy cheap once you spot that pattern. Of course the savings isn't much but it's satisfying to game the system a bit.

They also have gas price maps where you can get an idea of where the current cheap and expensive prices are all the way up to the national scale. California and New York are usually the most expensive. The northern Rocky Mountain states have been cheapest for quite a while now.

Locally, the most expensive is traditionally near the DTW airport to soak the renters. The cheapest tends to be at Ammex by the Ambassador bridge. Any area with "Hills" in their name tends to be expensive except maybe Auburn Hills. Roseville tends to stay on the cheap side.

Be careful when looking for cheap gas. The check engine light lit on two different cars right after fillups at the cheapest station near me. That hasn't happened before or since. Cheap gas can be bad gas.

[3WC]

Actually, Gistok, not all your Detroit gasoline comes from the Marathon refinery, althought a large percentage does.

Much Metro Detroit gas is pipelined in from west of Chicago, Blue Island [[Clark) and various other sources from the Whiting, IN refineries, primarily BP. That gas is sold to stations regardless of brand, as is Marathon's.

The Marathon refinery expansion results from Marathon's purchase a couple of years ago of an interest in a Canadian oil sands producer which generates heavy oil. It was a $6+ billion deal. Marathon had the choice of building a refinery in Canada or pipelining it down here and expending its refinery to handle the heavy crude, at a savings of a couple billion dollars. Even though the State should have known that Marathon would expand here even though it got no tax incentives, the State and the City in their wisdom granted over $100 million of tax incentiives. In other words, your tax dollars are going to Marathon, as a gift, so y'll are paying far more for gas than you ordinarily would. Is it any wonder your state is broke, and laughably so?

[Gistok]

Thanks 3WC, I didn't know that about the pipleline coming in from other areas of the midwest.

Yeah, I heard about the Marathon "giveaway".

I assume when you say "oil sands", you're referring to Alberta's Athabasca tar sands, which are now [[due to higher prices) worth extracting.

Do you think oil shale will be a practical alternative fuel? Or is the technology and or price not yet worthwhile in producing oil from it? From what I gather, isn't the western USA Green River Formation the worlds largest known oil shale deposit?

[Mind field]

Thanks 3WC, I didn't know that about the pipleline coming in from other areas of the midwest.

Yeah, I heard about the Marathon "giveaway".

I assume when you say "oil sands", you're referring to Alberta's Athabasca tar sands, which are now [[due to higher prices) worth extracting.

Do you think oil shale will be a practical alternative fuel? Or is the technology and or price not yet worthwhile in producing oil from it? From what I gather, isn't the western USA Green River Formation the worlds largest known oil shale deposit?

What an environmental disaster if oil shale is persued. I really hope that it is not.

[Hermod]

If gas sustains a $5 per gallon price, lots of commuters are going to be looking for Euro-diesel powered econoboxes that will get 60 mpg. For the shopping vehicle, a 100 mile range electric should do the trick. Unfortunately for the auto industry, those are the very low profit vehicles.

[Johnnny5]

CNG is the quick [[And clean) solution. Why on Earth Natural Gas is not being pushed by Washington is beyond me. We have vast domestic reserves, it's safer, produces fewer greenhouse gases and engines designed to run on gasoline can be converted so new vehicles would not be necessary in many instances. It's a win for everyone except Big Oil and OPEC.

[Richard]

CNG is the quick [[And clean) solution. Why on Earth Natural Gas is not being pushed by Washington is beyond me. We have vast domestic reserves, it's safer, produces fewer greenhouse gases and engines designed to run on gasoline can be converted so new vehicles would not be necessary in many intances. It's a win for everyone except Big Oil and OPEC.

CNG is systematically being dismantled there is a Cap and something fed law requiring that any gas line that has not been used in X number of years needs to be removed or capped ensuring that it will be extremely expensive to provide gas to that area in the future.

Insurance companies charge higher rates if you have gas,even though there are many safety devices and sensors on new appliances that are very effective.

There are ways though,under the cap law there are incentives that are passed down to convert to CNG ,as an example I bought an old house they came out and replaced all the gas lines with new and installed a new gas hot water heater for $125 out of pocket.It would have been $900 if I had gone the whole house HW heater route there are also rebates for cookstove,hot tub,pool heater,clothes dryer or anything else gas related,call you local gas supplier for specifics.

It used to be in some cities if you converted to CNG they would come out and replace everything and add $25 per month to the bill until it was paid for.

But it is all the same when it comes to anything fuel related if you watch the stocks low in the fall reports come out that it is going to be a cold winter they shoot up,the colder it gets the higher it goes.Supply and demand you demand it they supply it all the way to the bank.

There was a direct correlation that when fuel prices go up energy prices go up consumers conserve to save a few dollars and the price of the basic services rises to compensate.