Didn't someone have a Packard development announcement?

[adamjab19]

There was a thread, I think the 'Paint Detroit' one, that someone said there was going to be something unveiled about the Packard property?

Well, any news?

[Richard]

Still inching forward with positive results,but nothing would warrant being unveiled as of yet,it was structured to move forward financially without the use of any incentives so thankfully the recent news concerning credits or lack of is not going to effect progress.

I could go into what the plan is but maybe it is best to wait until things are more concrete,no pun intended towards Albert.

[Hamtragedy]

Yes. It will be unveiled as America's Cemetery. People will come from miles around to view the grave site of what was once known as American Industrial Might. Exhibits will remind people how if they worked enough hours in a year, they could actually afford the products they made. Shops and business as a result of millions making a fair wage and having disposable income would litter the park. Then people will mourn the loss of their pension plans, access to health care, and banks that once gave them 4% interest on savings.

Admission is free, but to exit, you must make a contribution of 25% of your annual income to a wall street billionaire, and be assured that, by him having that money, it will all come back to you in a socialist manner in, say, a minimum of 30 years. Blue Cross will be guarding the parking lot. You will have to pay the attendant another 25% of your annual income to get your car back. The attendant, of course, is a retiree and lives in the neighborhood, in his grandfather's house on Concord. He is just a security guard for Blue Cross and receives no benefits. You will have to tip him $2 so he can move the car that's blocking you in.

[Richard]

Nice but you forgot to add the part about while your car is in the parking lot it will be stripped of all metal parts by the scrappers.

Actually you are onto something, how about rooms with an easy chair in the middle and a revolving screen showing Bambi chasing butterflies through the woods while the life gets sucked out of ones self then soilent green comes into the picture to feed the hungry citizens because nobody before them had the foresight to draw a line in the sand and say enough is enough.

It is not about it is not worth it or to expensive or it can never be done more so it needs to be done for all of the reasons you so eloquently pointed out.

I think there are many that underestimate the impact of the rebuilding of this broken down plant and the message that it would send Globally .

[Gistok]

Richard,

Although I didn't care for Hamtragedy's humor in that particular post... I will say this... there is a greater chance that the former Michigan Theatre will be restored to it its' former grandeur.... than there is that the Packard plant will be rehabbed/refurbished.

[Meddle]

Attachment 8908


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[Richard]

I guess that would depend on what the end use would be,as a multi tier manufacturing facility it is doable my intended use calls for non automated labor which is how this product is built.It would cost a fraction to rebuild this verses new construction. If you block out everything but the actual framing structure it is not as bad as it looks.

If somebody was looking at it for condos and different uses then yes defiantly not worth it but as a manufacturing and research facility as it was designed it becomes hard to duplicate.

Some comparisons

http://www.michigan-commercial-real-...ouse-Space.htm

[Richard]

see until the scrappers get him he will protect it : ) That is funny.

It costs $17 per hour for one security guard 24/ 7 I wonder how much he would charge.

$17,548,69 in replacement glass.
$648,000 roughly to replace,repair the two damaged collapsed sections.
$168,000 to reinforce the section weakened by the explosion in the 1930s to prevent further problems.

[Hamtragedy]

Richard you hit the nail on the head. The same goes for mass transit. People are so used to saying "it will never happen." But instead, everyone should be saying "it needs to happen."

Only once that mindset changes, will this town see any change.

When you look at the scale, Packard Plant renovation and Mass Transit are both incredibly daunting tasks. I would bank on the latter, just as being more practical, with the potential to pay larger dividends.

[Richard]

well the manufacturing of interurban rail systems or commonly known as street cars is currently a 9.6 billion dollar a year industry,and showing a 30% growth consistently,street cars come in two ways one being the reproduction or rebuilding of vintage style or the manufacture of the new streamline of the future style.

Every city has different style and specifications build out so there is no robotic production lines one size does not fit all.It costs currently $300,000 to $600,000 per car.There is currently a 3 year wait on delivery.Still need the skill sets similar to the automotive industry,so if one were to say take that to the next level and apply that to what would be the largest production facility in the US that could combine orders in order to apply the principals of mass production,take that even farther find a large sqft factory without spending $50 million dollars of taxpayers money betting on the future.

I did find a brand new put the key in the door ready to go factory in the south but in order to cover the overhead of a 53 million dollar factory something has to give either you cut labor costs or create a cheaper product,personally I would rather have a cheaper but sufficient plant and be able to pay labor a higher wage so they are happy which hopefully will result in a product built with pride.

I understand everybody's hesitation but I am 2 years ahead of everybody on the thought process a lot of things had to fall into place concerning the big picture of it all and a couple still need to in order to make it a reality.

[SteadySky]

I thin Hamtragedy is right. Major effort is better served on the use of funds for public rail service. I think that this facility is destined to be demolished at some future date. Probably as a publically funded effort if the money can be found. I can't quite see a use that would make it work in any fashion.

Maybe if the infrustructure of the region is improved it can help lend itself to some sort of revival. I believe that Detroit has been through several of these over its existence. I suspect we are going through another one at the moment [[meaning the downside of the auto industry). Some point in the future something else we result in a boost for the region. I think transportation systems are important and public rail would be important.

[East Detroit]

The Governor just announced that any new roads at 50 Mile must use recycled concrete from the Packard grounds.

[Richard]

I thin Hamtragedy is right. Major effort is better served on the use of funds for public rail service. I think that this facility is destined to be demolished at some future date. Probably as a publically funded effort if the money can be found. I can't quite see a use that would make it work in any fashion.

No public funding on this project,the alternative would be US taxpayers funding demolition not just Detroit how fair is that? Your choice, jobs or another 10,000,000 + debt added to the taxpayers, which do you prefer someone looking at it with the attitude of how do I make it happen or it will never happen. Nothing personal directed towards you specifically SteadySky .

I would think having a street car manufacturing facility in ones back yard would do wonders for a city trying to integrate street cars back into the realm of things.But I guess I am not as forward thinking as others.

@ East Detroit : That would never happen because it would take away our right to tell our kids to go play in the street when they are aggravating us,to much lead in the pavement.

[SteadySky]

Richard,

I like your idea. Not sure if it would happen. I guess who can really say. I know that from my work background that many features that manufacuring like to see [[ceiling height, spacing between pillars, and loading dock capabilities), the facility seems to lack what it needs. I could certainly be wrong about the specifications of the place. I have been through many, many old facilities and sometimes that is a problem that turns investment off.

I agree another big public funded demo project stinks, but I am being rather "negatively realistic" about this site due to its size and capital needs. Still, if you/others could make it work I think it would be the posterchild for a "brownfield appropriations project" to go through Lansing as the new governor has indicated. They tried to do something like that with the old Kmart center in Troy. MEDC would not give a former owner the funding for demolition and they pushed for funding in Lansing. It failed [[and that was the right answer if you ask me), but maybe this could happen for a site like this one. it would need the funding help.

[WaCoTS]

i'd be interested to see how much and just what parts of the Packard are legitimately saveable. seems like some pretty small chunks to me, and not all of them contiguous.

that being said, i still believe "it needs to happen"...

[wolverine]

I can't imagine it being saved. Can't say I know first hand not having been inside, but form the photos I've seen it goes beyond broken windows and missing pipes to twisted rebar and falling floor slabs.

At the same time, too costly to tear down and there's money spent on better things. At this point, I'd just say forget about it. Let it rot forever. Pretend it doesn't exist.

Too bad the plant couldn't hold out another decade
http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/23/tech...tech/index.htm

[Django]

I agree with you Wolverine. I cannot imagine the Packards structure could ever pass a structural inspection. The pics here are of the buildings which back up to the cemetery, Im not sure if they are actually considered Packard.

I would want it to sit and rot away also. It may be selfish but I enjoy natures deconstruction of this building and others. Theres beauty in the original structure and theres beauty in its slow demise. I have no problem with scrappers having their way with some of these hulks because they were beyond repair long before metal prices went through the roof five years ago and brought out the scrappers in droves. As far as I concerned scrappers are just another jackal, just another animal feeding on whats available feeding themselves while getting rid of the garbage. Is it right? I dont know but its natural.

Sorry if Im off topic a little.

[Richard]

yea you guys are probably right who needs jobs when one can bask in the glory of ruin porn,how's that been working out for you?

Are you ready to hand over your part of the $100000 + it would take to demo it? Are you ready to stand up in front of your fellow citizens in the rest of the country and tell them they need to pay for it taking food off their families table so you can enjoy your ruins? I mean after all you do have a point it is about the individual and what they want who really gives a crap about anybody else.I wish I would have had the same attitude it would of save me tons of aggravation having to dodge bullets in some foreign hell hole of a county while walking to visit latrine in the morning.

The scrappers are necessary jackel?

"Rick,

I believe that this site is run by a guy that works in the building that ***** ******** ***********. He was the one who told the guys that it was okay to remove the mural. He's currently being prosecuted for stealing scrap from the Packard Plant."

So I am sure you will not have a problem contributing towards their legal fund,or maybe you could just go in front of the judge and give him/her your theory and see how far that goes.

I am done with the debate of it is or is not worth it , heres the deal,I have the purchase contract ready to sign on my desk , I will hold off on that to give you a chance to come up with the funds to buy the property ,I am sorry, you did not realize that you are enjoying your ruin porn at others expense?

It is that simple put your money on the table and guarantee that the rest of this country does not have to foot the bill and it is yours.

Disclaimer : I do not personally have a problem with the actual picture taking aspect of ruin porn but I have an immense problem with stealing from others and people that think the world revolves around them and could really care less about their fellow neighbor .

[Mikeg]

Too bad the plant couldn't hold out another decade
http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/23/tech...tech/index.htm

From the article:

But in Vancouver, Eco Spirit is optimistic. The indoor lettuce operation should generate $400,000 to $1 million in annual revenue, says Squamish Nation Chief Gibby Jacob. The tribe paid $2 million for the equipment and its franchise license from TerraSphere.

Let's make the highly optimistic assumption that the resulting "revenue less expenses" is somewhere between $80,000 and $200,000. That suggests a rough payback period of somewhere between 10 and 25 years on the $2 million investment. An investment that has that kind of an estimated rough payback period falls into the "highly speculative" category and you would get a better return on that money by putting it in a passbook savings account at the local bank. At least there, it would also have the added benefit of being available to fund loans to local entrepreneurs who could use it on better projects that have a much higher estimated payback period.

[Danny]

Here some Packard development news:

MOTHER NATURE TENDS TO CREATE GREENSPACE FOR PACKARD PROPERTIES.

Mother Nature is going to create a new green apartments and condos for birds, squirels and other exotic animals for the Old Packard Properties. The Historic Packard Plant was built in 1907 to mass produce their cars to compete with Ford Motor Companies, General Motors Corporation and other fast growing automobile companies. Packard Plant closed in the early 1950s the became a storage facility and industrial park. Kingsway Department Store took over parts of the property until it closed in 1990. Now the plant is left to loot and suffer damage and provide home for squatters. Today thanks to Mother Nature she will save the plant and built a new forest sub-division for newcoming animals. The project will cost absolutely nothing and expect to be done in 100 years.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

As I watch the ruins of man's post industrial age right before my eyes.

Neda, I miss you so.

[dover627]

Where exactly is the Packard Plant?

[Danny]

On E. Grand Blvd. east of Mt. Elliot on Detroit's Lower East Side.