In Youngstown, Ohio, relocating residents failed

**begingri** · February-22-11, 01:01 AM

BY JOHN GALLAGHER
DETROIT FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER

YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio -- If Mayor Dave Bing still hopes to offer incentives to move Detroiters out of the city's most distressed districts, the record here in Youngstown may give him pause.

Youngstown, too, talked of relocating people and shutting down parts of the city as part of its highly touted Youngstown 2010 plan adopted in 2005. The plan was designed to help Youngstown become a smaller but more livable city after 30 years of population loss.

But relocating people, ambitious in theory, proved difficult in practice. A lack of resources limited the scope. Ultimately, the city offered incentives of up to $50,000 to move just five homeowners. Four declined; one initially said yes but became too ill to accept.

Continued at: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2011102200492

**fryar** · February-22-11, 07:25 AM

They made offers to five households.

**kraig** · February-22-11, 08:21 AM

Isn't Youngstown the model that everyone has been following behind? Oh well, so much for that shrinking nonsense. Let's hope that the City starts looking at real solutions on how to deliver municipal services.

**rencense** · February-22-11, 10:03 AM

Well i suppose the elephant in the room is the up front costs of implementing this plan on any real scale. I agree with the downsizing idea and that it can save money in the long term. There are some things the city can do to encourage it but ultimately the city could never afford to give cash incentives to thousands of people.

I think the first step is to get all those 10k houses demolished that bing plans. Then [[like youngstown did) try to direct development to targeted areas and gradually phase out targeted areas. I notice the same trend in Detroit as in this article in that newer infill housing often finds its way into areas that are largely abandoned and sometimes even these new houses are vacant.

One positive thing is that there is a lot of area in detroit that is still pretty dense and occupied like NW, the far east side etc. These areas are still viable but need help. The bulk of houses are occupied but are brought down by scattered abandoned ones. Find a way to get the new infill/habitat houses built in these areas instead of prairie. Better yet target this to a few areas and direct extra police and schools in too.

Two critical factors will be salvaging DPS and getting more bang for the police buck. I'm looking forward to the state of the city to see what bing comes up with.

**iheartthed** · February-22-11, 10:08 AM

At least Youngstown had a true shrinking population [[metropolitan wide) for this idea to make some iota of sense. But that isn't the same situation going on in Detroit. The Youngstown comparison is much more applicable to a town like Flint.

**Detroitnerd** · February-22-11, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

At least Youngstown had a true shrinking population [[metropolitan wide) for this idea to make some iota of sense. But that isn't the same situation going on in Detroit. The Youngstown comparison is much more applicable to a town like Flint.

If Detroit's leaders weren't busy trying to turn Detroit into Flint, I'd agree with that.

**Goose** · February-22-11, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by rencense

I think the first step is to get all those 10k houses demolished that bing plans.

if they started with the 5K houses and down they'd have more on their plate than they could handle.....

**cman710** · February-22-11, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

At least Youngstown had a true shrinking population [[metropolitan wide) for this idea to make some iota of sense. But that isn't the same situation going on in Detroit. The Youngstown comparison is much more applicable to a town like Flint.

I agree that Flint is a better comparison to Younstown, even for scale. However, it looks like the most recent census will probably show a loss of population in the metro-area as well as the city, so there is no question the region does face these issues as well.

**daddeeo** · February-22-11, 12:35 PM

Parts of Youngstown look like a scene out of Little House on the Prairie.
The amount of money it would take to move a lot of people just isn't feasible. Name: PICT1130.jpg
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A real fixer upper is shown from Philadelphia St. in Youngstown.

DetroitDad · February-22-11, 08:41 PM

A moratorium on all incentives and tax breaks for development outside of the Grand Boulevard Loop would be nice, maybe with the exception of areas fronting the "gateway entrances" to the city. Directing resources through tax incentives and housing swaps would be a step in the right direction.

Expensive demolition projects should be treated as if they cost $1,000,000 a piece, and not thrown away like candy at the Detroit Thanksgiving Day Parade. Demolitions paid for by the city should be carefully and strategically planned for redevelopment areas. The city needs to take the stance that we are in the business or revitalization, and not demolition.

GUSHI · February-22-11, 09:17 PM

What is the point of demolish a home/building in a area of the city that Mayor Bing wants to close down? I would say let nature retake it, why spend 10,000 plus to knock it down? Just baricade the streets and call it a day. Or let the fire department burn it down have them do a few thousand practice runs.

**cman710** · February-22-11, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

What is the point of demolish a home/building in a area of the city that Mayor Bing wants to close down? I would say let nature retake it, why spend 10,000 plus to knock it down? Just baricade the streets and call it a day. Or let the fire department burn it down have them do a few thousand practice runs.

Gushi, there are procedures that should be followed to ensure that any asbestos in the houses will not become airborne when a house is demolished. Plus, most houses have foundations, so it is not truly demolishing them just to destroy the above-surface structure.

GUSHI · February-22-11, 09:27 PM

Its makes no sense to pay 50k for a house worth 5k, tell the home owner if you don't move your service will be limited. Offer them a new home in a nicer area and get volunteers to help with the moving cost. There still is alot of love for the City of Detroit from the suburbs, I would volunteer to help reclocate elderly people, If the person wants to stay, its there choice. Without Detroit there is no Michigan.

GUSHI · February-22-11, 09:45 PM

Is it cheaper just to remove the abestos than knock down the vacant house, I have never done demolition, i'm just curious. I would first knockdown/rehab the house in the 5 or 10 stable neighborhoods than worry about the lost hoods of detroit. The city is cash strapped, worry about the empty hoods later down the line. Make the city beautiful again.
When I moved out of the city in the early 90's and moved to the burbs, I use to love taking my new friends down to Hamtramck to get liquor and beer and I would love to watch them get all scared.[[was 16 or 17 at the time) We use to park in the alley by Carpented or Moran, they would be scared sh*tless.That was "PRICELESS"

Originally Posted by cman710

Gushi, there are procedures that should be followed to ensure that any asbestos in the houses will not become airborne when a house is demolished. Plus, most houses have foundations, so it is not truly demolishing them just to destroy the above-surface structure.

**daddeeo** · February-22-11, 10:31 PM

Lucky your car was still there when you got back.

**iheartthed** · February-23-11, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by cman710

I agree that Flint is a better comparison to Younstown, even for scale. However, it looks like the most recent census will probably show a loss of population in the metro-area as well as the city, so there is no question the region does face these issues as well.

The census absolutely will show a loss for Metro Detroit, but Youngstown, like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, is a region that has been losing population for decades [[we're talking a trend that's been going since the 1960s in those places). Detroit is a victim of Metro Detroit's policies that encourage unchecked sprawl.

**kraig** · February-23-11, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by GUSHI

Its makes no sense to pay 50k for a house worth 5k, tell the home owner if you don't move your service will be limited. Offer them a new home in a nicer area and get volunteers to help with the moving cost. There still is alot of love for the City of Detroit from the suburbs, I would volunteer to help reclocate elderly people, If the person wants to stay, its there choice. Without Detroit there is no Michigan.

"Tell the homeowner if you don't move your service will be limited."

That threat doesn't mean anything to someone that believes their service is already limited. If the program that's being offered to the police officers is any indication, this stuff doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding. Best to dump this doomed to fail program from the beginning and focus on just providing basic services.

**davewindsor** · February-23-11, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by kraig

"Tell the homeowner if you don't move your service will be limited."

That threat doesn't mean anything to someone that believes their service is already limited. If the program that's being offered to the police officers is any indication, this stuff doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of succeeding. Best to dump this doomed to fail program from the beginning and focus on just providing basic services.

Not only that, but it also sounds like a legal liability issue for the city. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that if the city made such an official statement and someone who lived in that underserviced area was injured because of limited policing, it sounds like someone could sue the city for discrimination against that neighbourhood because of such a statement. A lawyer could argue that someone was injured because of the city's negligence in not providing a standard of care that they would get in another area of the city because they discriminated against that area. Lawyers have been suing for discrimination for years. You get slip and fall claims made against the city for poor maintenance. Wait until a lawyer twists this one around because of the city's official statement on limited policing in certain neighbourhoods.

**canuck** · February-23-11, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

The census absolutely will show a loss for Metro Detroit, but Youngstown, like Buffalo and Pittsburgh, is a region that has been losing population for decades [[we're talking a trend that's been going since the 1960s in those places). Detroit is a victim of Metro Detroit's policies that encourage unchecked sprawl.

Absolutely, and that may be only one of the myriad reasons the burbs would avoid cooperation with Detroit.

It is now, and always has been a metro problem if the depletion in inner city Detroit happened as a result of unchecked sprawl. It is a shared responsibility. Detroit's problem is too big for the city to handle on its own and is too important for the suburbs to ignore.