Snyder is barking up the wrong tree if he tries to tax pensions.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-16-11, 05:04 PM

If our newly elected Govenor tries to tax the pensions of our seniors, he will be starting WWIII. Why would he even think of doing such a thing is beyond me. A person works 30+ years and this is what they get? Mr Snyder better come up with another idea to save money for the State of Michigan.

**BagAJellyDonuts** · February-16-11, 05:21 PM

Unless I have been totally misled, the state of Michigan has one of if not the lowest tax rate on pensions in the nation. I doubt that a competitive tax rate on pensions will doom his tenure. But of course whoever runs against him next will do they can to mislead the voters.

IMO, the problems of state government are not related to political parties. The problems relate to how one state plays against others. What really tilts scales is how the federal government has reallocated funds. Michigan may never get back what it has given.

lilpup · February-16-11, 05:32 PM

I think it's the perfect thing to tax. The tax doesn't apply to Social Security income or retirement investment plans like disbursements from 401[[k) plans. I think it's perfect because it will affect the big pocket double and triple dippers without hitting small pockets. Another reason I really like it is that it will be the baby boomers who have sucked up most everything both income and job wise. It will also discourage some retirees from returning as "consultants" when really they're just taking a job away from a younger person.

**Kevgoblue** · February-16-11, 09:34 PM

So why is taxing pensions a bad idea? How is that income any different than income derrived from going to work every day?
And then when you take into account the fact that all government entities are claiming that their biggest uncontrollable cost is the pensions / healthcare of retirees it seems only fair. Why should the younger generation solely shoulder the burden of this cost? Especially when considering the fact that they are no longer being provided a fixed pension. Rather they have to fund their own retirement income via a 401K. So effectively the senior are asking them to foot the bill for both generation's retirements.

**Searay215** · February-16-11, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

So why is taxing pensions a bad idea? How is that income any different than income derrived from going to work every day?
And then when you take into account the fact that all government entities are claiming that their biggest uncontrollable cost is the pensions / healthcare of retirees it seems only fair. Why should the younger generation solely shoulder the burden of this cost? Especially when considering the fact that they are no longer being provided a fixed pension. Rather they have to fund their own retirement income via a 401K. So effectively the senior are asking them to foot the bill for both generation's retirements.

What you are forgetting is all the other pensioners who are NOT affiliated with the state. Our pensions are set. There will be NO increases and the same with SS, so our fixed income is getting less and less. You are NOT supporting my retirement, mine was fixed a long time ago....and pensions are different than SS. We paid into ours and we get what we put in, plus what the company we worked for gives us. As I said there will be NO increases and no one is paying for my retirement.
Belive me you will think different when they tax not only your 401K as it is but then tax it again as a pension.
FYI State legislators get a FULL pension after only 6 years on the job....that is where your money is going. And why is Rick getting a salary? He is a Millionaire......we paying for a full time legislators that really only work 9 months a year. That my freind is a part time job, pay them as one.

**Searay215** · February-16-11, 10:19 PM

This will light off a fire storm of anger among seniors....and there is a lot of us. We deserve a break after all the years we put in. There are only 13 states that do not tax pensions and rightfully so. Rick is a one term governor......as much as I want to see reform, there are tons of cuts they can make like the ones I stated in an earlier post. And that is just the tip of the iceberg. This state wastes so much money its not funny.

**Novine** · February-16-11, 10:34 PM

You still haven't explained why this one form of income should be treated differently than any other kind of income.

**Kevgoblue** · February-17-11, 12:38 AM

A bunch of undercover teabaggers lurking in our midsts.
Supposed fiscal conservatives, yelling for balanced budgets and reduced government spending. Demanding an end to entitlement programs. All the while screaming "keep your government hands off my social security".

Sad. For so many the concept of shared sacrifice means nothing. Its not like they're trying to take 30% or anything. The state tax rate is only 4%. I surely hope that in a few years I would not be willing to let my kids hang out to dry so I could maintain the prosperous lifestyle to which I have become accustomed.

**Gistok** · February-17-11, 01:28 AM

Just go check out what's going on in Wisconsin... the state government workers are up in arms over losing their collective bargaining rights.... they're maning the pitchforks and torches....

**sirrealone** · February-17-11, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Searay215

We deserve a break after all the years we put in.

Everybody, working or not, deserves a break. Nobody is getting one. It's the plain truth of today's economy.

I haven't had a merit increase since 2008 nor has anybody else at my company. Since then my employer has cut all matching 401[[k) funds so they are funding absolutely nothing towards my retirement. They've also raised health care premiums over 300% and doubled our co-pays.

Where's my break?

The fact is that very few of us that work today are ever going to have to worry about this ever affecting us. Why? First, because most of us won't be able to afford to retire at all, and second, because when we do there's going to be no pension check waiting for us in the mailbox.

Who's going to give us a break then?

So you know what, give me a break.

**oldredfordette** · February-17-11, 08:04 AM

They want to balance the budget on the backs of the citizens. Don't you get it? When they get done with dismantling the pensions they'll come back for your wages. Stop being chickens defending the Colonel!

**Searay215** · February-17-11, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

Everybody, working or not, deserves a break. Nobody is getting one. It's the plain truth of today's economy.

I haven't had a merit increase since 2008 nor has anybody else at my company. Since then my employer has cut all matching 401[[k) funds so they are funding absolutely nothing towards my retirement. They've also raised health care premiums over 300% and doubled our co-pays.

Where's my break?

The fact is that very few of us that work today are ever going to have to worry about this ever affecting us. Why? First, because most of us won't be able to afford to retire at all, and second, because when we do there's going to be no pension check waiting for us in the mailbox.

Who's going to give us a break then?

So you know what, give me a break.

What you have to remember is that one day you are going to be in this boat too....with a fixed income that will NEVER rise. Yours may someday....
I too have had a 300% increase in my health care premiums and lost my dental, perscription and vision coverage.....so try to understand from a senior point of view. Like I said one day you too will be there. Protect your future NOW!!

**Searay215** · February-17-11, 09:09 AM

I hope someone organizes a protest in Lansing like Egypt....I will be there.

**Novine** · February-17-11, 09:21 AM

You still haven't explained why your income should be treated differently than anyone else. When people have a retirement income that exceeds the income of most working people in this state, where's the fairness in that income going untaxed and everyone else covering the difference?

gdogslim · February-17-11, 09:51 AM

Like a 401K it should be taxed upon receiving it. It is income, it should be taxed at some point.
If the government is to be fair on taxation, why not? Better pay the PR price early on.
I would graduate the tax over time depending on age because there was a certain expectation level and people base their spending on it.

**lpg** · February-17-11, 01:39 PM

Why don't we just euthanize everyone over say 55 and be done with it ? No pension or Social Security to fund, no need for Medicare. Plenty of jobs opening up. Problem solved

**MCP-001** · February-17-11, 02:33 PM

And just how many times should people pay taxes on money they have already paid taxes on?

**Papasito** · February-17-11, 02:40 PM

Here's an Idea:
Cut the fat out of the State budget.
Slash Slash Slash

and then you don't have to tax more.

Every time you drive down the street and see five guys standing around one guy who's actually using his shovel, think about those extra tax dollars the Government wants from you, and about how they intend to waste them. After they waste them, they will tell you how they don't have enough money, and will tax something else, and then waste that money too.

**gnome** · February-17-11, 02:40 PM

Leaders lead, right now we are in a world of hurt and anyone who doesn't think that fixing our mess won't hurt is fooling themselves. Everyone will be taking a huge bite of a poo sandwich: kids, education, the sick, the poor, the old, cities, counties, the arts, parks ... Pick your favorite thing and it will take a hit.

This is the cost of kicking the budgetary can down the road. You can blame Jenny, John, Jimmy or even Bill Milliken; but the guy you can't blame is Snyder.

**Wingnatic** · February-17-11, 06:20 PM

Its only a proposal at this point . The production of '' The Wannabes '' said on the news that they'll pull up stakes and leave if the film tax credits is messed with .

**firstandten** · February-17-11, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Here's an Idea:
Cut the fat out of the State budget.
Slash Slash Slash

and then you don't have to tax more.

Every time you drive down the street and see five guys standing around one guy who's actually using his shovel, think about those extra tax dollars the Government wants from you, and about how they intend to waste them. After they waste them, they will tell you how they don't have enough money, and will tax something else, and then waste that money too.

I would venture to tell you that I don't think state gov't waste is as much as you might think and by getting rid of this waste while needed and useful won't come close to balancing the budget.

You need to get to a more fundamental problem. Tax revenues are down because you have a contraction of the economy[[the reasons are more than I want to get into in this post). You have a combination of people living longer plus baby-bloomers entering retiring age that puts a burden on pensions.

If the problem was as simple as cutting fat it would have been solved long ago

Augustiner · February-17-11, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Every time you drive down the street and see five guys standing around one guy who's actually using his shovel...

Is this something you encounter frequently? My neighborhood isn't exactly overrun with six-man streetside shoveling crews on the state payroll.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · February-17-11, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

You still haven't explained why your income should be treated differently than anyone else. When people have a retirement income that exceeds the income of most working people in this state, where's the fairness in that income going untaxed and everyone else covering the difference?

Who's pension equals or exceeds a working persons? Mine sure as hell doesn't. These retired Judges and Police Chiefs and other state and government workers are the one's with $80,000.00 or more a year pensions. They should be taxed according to pension amount. Where's the fairness in taxing someone whose pension is $35,000.00 a year the same as as someone's who's is $80,000.00 or more? Utterly ridiculous. Snyder is in for a fight.

**Detroitej72** · February-17-11, 10:42 PM

Anyone else think there is something wrong with taxing seniors and those making under $20,000 a year to pay for businesses to get a bigger tax break. And spare me the phony argument that the businesses will be good stewards and create more jobs with the tax cuts because that myth has been proven false many times before. If we haven't learned anything from the Bush Wall Street Bailout, its that the companies will just give their CEO's bigger bonuses with the money.

littlebuddy · February-18-11, 08:11 AM

Older people cannot do what lots of us younger people can, that is just a physcial fact of life. They cannot work 16 hours a day at jobs that lots of us younger people could if we had to. A fixed income is just that, fixed, while costs keep going up. It is like making you folks pay you rent if they had to come and live with you, that is just wrong. I see plenty of older people come into the store I work at and there is no way they are going to be out working. This is a sad society that kills its young and trashes its old.