Unruly class no reason to change grades, DPS teacher says

**begingri** · February-10-11, 12:42 PM

By CHASTITY PRATT DAWSEY
Detroit Free Press Education Writer

Marjorie Pasqualle, a teacher for 9 1/2 years in Detroit PublicSchools

, expected her sixth- and seventh-graders to have self-control. And more important, she expected administrators to enforce consequences for the poor behavior she reported.

Such as the students who cursed her and disregarded her instructions. Such as the student who profanely asked her to perform oral sex on him.

Instead, after more than a year of struggling to gain control of unruliness in her science classes at Durfee Elementary, she faced termination for what her bosses called an inability to "impart knowledge" and unsatisfactory "manner and efficacy of student discipline."

So she retired in July.

"They said I was a horrible teacher," Pasqualle said.

But that doesn't justify her students' grades being changed, she said.
Pasqualle gave 94 of her 137 science students D's or F's in June. However, poor grades were changed to C's on student records, a Free Press review of report cards and computerized documents shows.

Pasqualle's story -- that she was pushed out and her students passed -- is not surprising to DPS teachers. In the face of tremendous odds -- such as low parent involvement and low academic performance -- teachers who fail a lot of students often face questions from principals and administrators who are under pressure to improve student achievement rates, teachers say.

"I did get called down to the office ... but I wasn't the only one. It was a lot of us," said Karanji Kaduma, a science teacher at Denby High School who gave D's and F's to dozens of students last fall. His principal asked him to explain -- but not change -- his failing grades.

"It can't all be on the teachers. The problem has so many causes. But you can't just change the grades," he said.

Continued at: http://www.freep.com/article/2011021...S-teacher-says

**LeannaM** · February-10-11, 01:19 PM

Stuff like that probably is not uncommon around the country, but schools with poor funding are probably worse, because funding is often tied to grades.

The whole idea of passing kids who don't deserve it is just wrong, but it happens a lot. It looks better if students pass, even if they don't learn anything or give any effort. Fighting against students, parents [[the ones who care) and bosses is probably a losing battle even for experienced teachers.

**sumas** · February-10-11, 06:46 PM

Jeez now I feel bad. It was like when those kids that were throwing rocks at a neighbors dog, wouldn't listen to us. It was just plain mean to try to hurt Harlan. No respect for adults or other living creatures.

I have to say I admire teachers, wouldn't do that job. There were times I would have cashed my own kids in and they were good kids.

Have a friend who teaches at a local community college, the stories are heartbreaking about the utter lack of skills the students have.

Then I meet area kids who are respectful, smart and charming. So I gain hope again.

**Rochelle St.** · February-10-11, 07:12 PM

Where are these students parents?
My dad would have beat my ass bad for talking to a teacher like that.

**DetroitTeacher** · February-10-11, 07:32 PM

I have to say that I've never experienced anything like the teachers in the article. I've never had any of the grades I put on the report cards changed. I have been challenged a few times but the students and their parents couldn't persuade anyone to allow them a passing grade because they didn't do the work and their attendance was less than poor.

The state of the middle school classrooms is the exact reason I don't teach middle school. It takes a very special person to teach that age group and I know that it is not my cup of tea. Shoot, I'd have ended up in prison by now if I were in that woman's class as the teacher. Middle school students are a tough crowd and I wouldn't wish middle school on anyone. The admin should NOT be changing grades, though. Those kids will come to me without being able to read and write [[or do science stuff...can you tell I stay away from science class??), They will fail my class if they don't shape up and there won't be a soul to help them out of the F. If I were the parents, I'd be screaming and suing because my little heathen was passed and they shouldn't have been.

DetroitDad · February-10-11, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rochelle St.

Where are these students parents?
My dad would have beat my ass bad for talking to a teacher like that.

On the hour long bus ride out to a twelve hour workday at Great Lakes Crossing or Detroit Diesel? Or maybe some just don't care. It's hard to tell the difference from the view we have out here.

**Jimaz** · February-10-11, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

... If I were the parents, I'd be screaming and suing because my little heathen was passed and they shouldn't have been.

... because it only harms the child more to defer their failure until it's too late to catch up. Better for their sake to catch them early. Correct?

[[Not to stuff words in your mouth but that's what makes sense to me.)

**DetroitTeacher** · February-10-11, 10:14 PM

Jimaz: You got it right

**jtf1972** · February-10-11, 10:30 PM

Any administrator who changes a grade for political purposes should be terminated immediately. While you cannot personally control a vicious cycle of poorly parented children, by consciously supporting passing them into a world wholly unprepared for anything that requires one hint of responsibility is a crime. It's your fucking job to do everything in your power to see that these children learn something other than that the system doesn't give a goddamn about them.

**fryar** · February-10-11, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by begingri

... the student who profanely asked her to perform oral sex on him ... at Durfee Elementary

The world has really evolved in the 20 or so years since I attended elementary school.

**English** · February-10-11, 10:44 PM

Grade inflation is rampant at every level of schooling and at almost every school. Teachers, professors, and administrators who buck the trend are punished.

I've taught elementary/middle school kids, high schoolers, undergrads, and graduates. Some students and their parents believe that they deserve As [[not just a passing grade, mind... an A) for breathing.

**LeannaM** · February-11-11, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

I have to say that I've never experienced anything like the teachers in the article. I've never had any of the grades I put on the report cards changed. I have been challenged a few times but the students and their parents couldn't persuade anyone to allow them a passing grade because they didn't do the work and their attendance was less than poor.

The state of the middle school classrooms is the exact reason I don't teach middle school. It takes a very special person to teach that age group and I know that it is not my cup of tea. Shoot, I'd have ended up in prison by now if I were in that woman's class as the teacher. Middle school students are a tough crowd and I wouldn't wish middle school on anyone. The admin should NOT be changing grades, though. Those kids will come to me without being able to read and write [[or do science stuff...can you tell I stay away from science class??), They will fail my class if they don't shape up and there won't be a soul to help them out of the F. If I were the parents, I'd be screaming and suing because my little heathen was passed and they shouldn't have been.

I plan on teaching Middle School. That said, I'm from a rural small town and I know I would have a lot of difficulty in a large school, regardless of grade. I admire those who teach in an inner city. My area schools have poor funding, but, in my experience, they tend to have more parental involvement and fewer violence issues. I can't imagine teaching in a classroom like the one in the article. I'm sure not all inner city school classrooms are that bad, though. The school I went to was poorly funded and rural, but community was very involved and the kids all knew each other, so it's hard for me to fully understand these large schools in cities. I'm not used to it, though I have observed it.

One time there was a story like this on Golden Girls, when Dorothy refused to pass a student and he wouldn't be able to play in the big game. That said, this is real life, not a sitcom.

I can certainly understand why some teachers or administrators would just want to pass kids and get them out of their rooms, but that's doing them a disservice. I can understand the frustration but that doesn't make passing the kids right.

**CLAUDE G** · February-11-11, 01:55 AM

Im not trying to say this lady was a bad teacher, but alot of the behavior problems are due to the way the teacher shows their authority with the students.

When I was Highschool we actually had a teacher just like this that the students in her classroom where just so bad, we actually made the teacher have a nervous breakdown and quit.

I actually did pretty good in that teachers class, because I had a kid that I was fighting with at the time and we where both in the same class. He threw a rock at her, while she had her back turned to the class and was writting on the chalkboard. When she asked who did it, nobody would tell her who.

Finally she said she would give an "A" for the entire semester for the person who told her, and I ended up standing up and ratting him out. .

I ended up fighting the kid in the class a few minutes later, and luckily the principal showed up and saved me from getting my ass beat.

I don't normally rat people out, but for an "A" and to see your enemy get in trouble it was worth it

The other teachers we had, especially the male teachers we wouldn't dare speak out of turn, or be late to his class because we knew we would get in trouble.

I think its just a matter of control, just like you might get away with certain things with your mom where you wouldn't with your dad.

**LeannaM** · February-11-11, 01:58 AM

Some of it is a matter of control, but the teacher needs backup from administration. The teacher can threaten to punish them or send them to the principal, but if the school refuses to punish them, the teacher him/herself can't do as much. Some teachers don't have much control, but much of it is the school system's fault as well, at least much of the time.

**sumas** · February-11-11, 02:00 AM

I did have a grade changed once but that was because the teacher was a complete idiot. That happens too. My work was good. Just put that one teacher on the spot. He was a serious creep. Happens.

**Red Devil** · February-11-11, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by LeannaM

One time there was a story like this on Golden Girls, when Dorothy refused to pass a student and he wouldn't be able to play in the big game. That said, this is real life, not a sitcom.

You may recall another similar situation, when in the midst of student-teacher week, Principal Zack refused to allow Slater and the other Bayside football players to skip Kelly's test, which almost cost them the big game against Valley.

**jcole** · February-11-11, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by LeannaM

I plan on teaching Middle School. That said, I'm from a rural small town and I know I would have a lot of difficulty in a large school, regardless of grade. I admire those who teach in an inner city. My area schools have poor funding, but, in my experience, they tend to have more parental involvement and fewer violence issues. I can't imagine teaching in a classroom like the one in the article. I'm sure not all inner city school classrooms are that bad, though. The school I went to was poorly funded and rural, but community was very involved and the kids all knew each other, so it's hard for me to fully understand these large schools in cities. I'm not used to it, though I have observed it.

One time there was a story like this on Golden Girls, when Dorothy refused to pass a student and he wouldn't be able to play in the big game. That said, this is real life, not a sitcom.

I can certainly understand why some teachers or administrators would just want to pass kids and get them out of their rooms, but that's doing them a disservice. I can understand the frustration but that doesn't make passing the kids right.

My husband taught middle school for most of the 90's and that is what caused him to retire after over 30 yrs of teaching. This was NOT in a large school system either; the whole town is about 2500 people. Kids of that age are damned near impossible to get through to; their hormones are raging and they are just not interested in school.[[Yes, of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally kids from 11-14 are reaching puberty and their body chemistry is just off)

**313WX** · February-11-11, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Red Devil

You may recall another similar situation, when in the midst of student-teacher week, Principal Zack refused to allow Slater and the other Bayside football players to skip Kelly's test, which almost cost them the big game against Valley.

What did you say?

You may have your characters confused, or maybe I'm missing the joke.

**Zacha341** · February-11-11, 12:30 PM

The 'disruptive' behavior, lack of core skills, increasing necessity for remedial training, inattention to detail, and lack of discipline continue at the community college level for instructors there to deal with!

I work at a border suburb community college. Notices by administration have recently been posted [[and distributed to staff) and as hand-outs to students regarding 'inappropriate' behavior and the consequences including suspension for first, and subsequent offenses.

Great! Imagine that in COLLEGE! No wonder we are being out performed by those from other countries who attend post secondary schools with an agenda to learn and be successful.

Wake up people! While there's still yet time.... or is it?

Originally Posted by sumas

Jeez now I feel bad. It was like when those kids that were throwing rocks at a neighbors dog, wouldn't listen to us. It was just plain mean to try to hurt Harlan. No respect for adults or other living creatures.

I have to say I admire teachers, wouldn't do that job. There were times I would have cashed my own kids in and they were good kids.

Have a friend who teaches at a local community college, the stories are heartbreaking about the utter lack of skills the students have.

Then I meet area kids who are respectful, smart and charming. So I gain hope again.

**Zacha341** · February-11-11, 12:36 PM

Middle school is crazy I would imagine. I would never teach that age group. I prefer older teens and adults. Middle aged kids cannot even be reasoned with and the hormone issue at that point has an incredible impact. Kudos to those teachers who have the skills and means to teach and reach that age. Those teachers are incredible and are up against a great deal, especially with the lack of parental involvement which starts to increase around that time as parents feel their job may be done! Insane.... I know. I've even heard older teens reflect back on hard and challenging middle school and that age was to get thru!

Originally Posted by jcole

My husband taught middle school for most of the 90's and that is what caused him to retire after over 30 yrs of teaching. This was NOT in a large school system either; the whole town is about 2500 people. Kids of that age are damned near impossible to get through to; their hormones are raging and they are just not interested in school.[[Yes, of course there are exceptions to the rule, but generally kids from 11-14 are reaching puberty and their body chemistry is just off)

**Zacha341** · February-11-11, 12:39 PM

Yep, and don't doubt that the kids don't pick up on this... They KNOW and continue to act-out accordingly!

Originally Posted by LeannaM

Some of it is a matter of control, but the teacher needs backup from administration. The teacher can threaten to punish them or send them to the principal, but if the school refuses to punish them, the teacher him/herself can't do as much. Some teachers don't have much control, but much of it is the school system's fault as well, at least much of the time.

**Zacha341** · February-11-11, 01:06 PM

It is duly noted that he made his request of 'oral sex' in a profane manner. Oh my!!!!!

Originally Posted by fryar

The world has really evolved in the 20 or so years since I attended elementary school.

**firstandten** · February-11-11, 01:35 PM

Durfee has never been a good school[[since the 60's) and at various points it has been a middle school, a junior high and K-8. The administration currently is caught between a rock and a hard place.If the kids don't learn and once the school fails to make AYP the administration will lose their jobs. That is not the justify the grade changing that is flat out wrong, but their are so many things beyond their control its a tough, almost no win situation for them.

It looks like the administration of the school was more concerned about getting the teacher a unsat rating so they could get her out of there rather than getting her some help. But there's more to it, because the union makes the administration jump thru so many hoops in order to rate a teacher unsat there was probably concern that if they gave the woman too much help they would have to keep her when they already knew she was not a good fit for that school.

I stated in another post that too many of todays parents try to be their childs friend rather than a parent which includes not only love but tough love. Too many of these kids don't respect their parents the way they should, so they sure in hell is not going to respect a teacher who has poor classroom management skills.

**Zacha341** · February-11-11, 02:30 PM

Agreed! Observe how kids behave towards each other at times in the idea of being er' 'friends' would make any parent or teacher wary to be too familiar in the 'friends' arena. Kids need to know who's in charge! Choose: you OR them in the context of parenting or teaching. Too many parents are 'dazzled' by their kids supposed wisdom [[this is especially true of the brighter child at the teen level) and spend far, far too much time DEBATING... so of course this behavior comes to the classroom as it is going on in the HOME!

Originally Posted by firstandten

....I stated in another post that too many of todays parents try to be their childs friend rather than a parent which includes not only love but tough love. Too many of these kids don't respect their parents the way they should, so they sure in hell is not going to respect a teacher who has poor classroom management skills.

**wanderinglady** · February-11-11, 09:18 PM

I don't know how anyone could decide to be a middle school teacher. Middle school [[at a DPS school that no longer exists) was pure hell for me. The kids were unruly -- not as bad as the kids in this story, but they were unruly. And this was supposed to be an "advanced" class. If things were this way in the mid-1970s, I can believe things today are as bad as they are.