Would Someone Please Explain Building Code Violations

[Lowell]

I understand this in principle.

Safety, upkeep and blight regulations require owners of properties to obey them and keep up their properties. In certain circumstances, where public safety is at stake, periodic inspections are requires. If defects are found violations are issued. Owners may correct the violations within a set time and, if not, pay a fine and face other legal remedies.

I don't understand it in practice.

I witness properties owned by people with immense wealth [See the thread Speculators, investors or vultures? Detroit land owners.] that sit as blighted rotting, unsecured public safety hazards, some for decades.

Focusing solely on business properties, I ask the forum how does this happen? I know that each situation is unique and there are extenuating circumstances regarding ownership vagaries, but that can't explain more than a few situations.

What is defective with the building code system that allows this wide-spread scoff law culture to continue?

If the system is simply overwhelmed and easy to delay by clogging the courts? Are there not remedies by the state? How can this be fixed? How would you fix it?

[douglasm]

I know it's a long process. The fact that the city issues a violation notice does not preclude a trip through the court system. We've been fighting with a homeowner out here for about 6 months over a building violation, and we're a town of about 900. I'd hate to be a Detroit building inspector. The backlog of cases must be massive.....

[DetroitPlanner]

These are under the Department of Adminstrative Hearings. Unfortunately, in a city that can't fill needed police and fire jobs due to budget concerns these are seen as small potatoes. Remember the last few years the foreclosures have increased exponentially at a time where the City is slashing its budget. Not an excuse, but an attempt to explain what is going on here. I for one am sick of being surrounded by empty homes that are blighting my property. If something does not happen soon I too, a professional who has lived within the City Borders most of his 44 years is leaving too.

[Gannon]

To be fair, Lowell, this disparity exists with ALL aspects of the law.

Always has, and unfortunately always will.


Most laws are written in reaction to specific circumstances, while almost NONE of them are ever removed from the books...as IF lawyers feel some form of loss anxiety whenever any of their 'worth' is challenged.

I think, deep down, because they know they are largely an un-necessary burden on the rest of society...so they then create more arcane language and circumstances that perpetuate their position in the professional world.


But more than occasionally, the law is used by tyrants in power to secure their power and profit from those they consider underneath them. In this case, it is just more obvious...you SEE the hulking remains of what wealth accumulates then ignores, in whatever egoic desires are fulfilled by this pursuit.


I wouldn't make too much noise about it, or you will be targeted by the authorities until you fear them again! LOL...

[Lowell]

Is the problem that the penalties are not high enough? One would think that this could be self-funding, like parking enforcement is.

I learned from an insider a few years back that the one third of the inspector positions in the CofD at that time were unfilled, due to large turn over and difficulty finding replacements. Seemingly pay was not equivalent to the qualifications required.

I can see where this would be touchy in the case of occupied 'little guy' residential situations because it may be the difference between a home and homelessness. So my question is more about about 'big guy' business situations. Those seem inexcusable.

[Gannon]

I for one am sick of being surrounded by empty homes that are blighting my property. If something does not happen soon I too, a professional who has lived within the City Borders most of his 44 years is leaving too.

Only because you are too ethical to use arson to clear the space, like some of the EVIL newbie gentrifiers who've infiltrated the North Corktown area...I say this because a proposed art house I know of was torched after some voiced complaints of how it would affect their property values. Same folks get all upset over those who farm and keep chickens on their property, too. They will burn in their own special version of hell. One of them SO pestered the city that they were moved to give a blight ticket to a fellow who later took his own life, from what I gathered that ticket was the last straw. And THAT ticket was for a pile of wood chips that he hadn't yet had the time to spread...but it was for a grand or MORE. No way anyone could bear that idiocy, or be forced to pay an attorney for the priviledge of regaining that ever-so-elusive freedom we so claim in this land.


I'm not fond of these sort of things, since they are the whole forcing their will upon the freedoms of the individual. Codes should keep some from danger, and others ON a master plan overall for zoning...but so much of it is foolishness.

Worse when you go to planned areas where they dictate relatively ridiculous rules for commercial signage that makes not a single business locatable by moving traffic. There are a few places like that in CA and GA that I've seen, and while there is some charm to seeing the standard McDonald's sign a foot off the ground with mini-golden arches...at what point has coding gone too far?!

[lincoln8740]

It's actually quite simple: Inspectors only issue tickets to those they think will pay. It's a complete waste of time to write tickets on a property that is either abandoned or not cared for.

I get tickets all the time and I am trying to do my best but the abandoned four family around the corner where the crackheads have a fucking hose hooked up to a gas line for some heat? They never get bothered.

[Lowell]

It's actually quite simple: Inspectors only issue tickets to those they think will pay. It's a complete waste of time to write tickets on a property that is either abandoned or not cared for.

Why is it a waste? Why aren't the owners be pursued and brought to court?

[DetroitPlanner]

Why is it a waste? Why aren't the owners be pursued and brought to court?

Most of these truely blighted properties are either owned by the City, the County or banks because of walk-offs or foreclosures. The City is not going to write tickets to themselves or the people they need to do business with.

[lincoln8740]

Why is it a waste? Why aren't the owners be pursued and brought to court?

the only remedy is levying fines against the building which could eventually lead to a tax lien. If the property is abandoned what's the point of levying the fines--they will never be paid and eventually you will end with another city owned abandoned property.

[Lowell]

the only remedy is levying fines against the building which could eventually lead to a tax lien. If the property is abandoned what's the point of levying the fines--they will never be paid and eventually you will end with another city owned abandoned property.

My question is more along the lines as to why the owners cannot be pursued for their personal or business assets after a fine becomes delinquent? If one flagrantly refuses to pay a fine, isn't garnishment and or jail the next step? That is what happens to traffic ticket scofflaws.

[detr0itkid]

Only because you are too ethical to use arson to clear the space, like some of the EVIL newbie gentrifiers who've infiltrated the North Corktown area...I say this because a proposed art house I know of was torched after some voiced complaints of how it would affect their property values. Same folks get all upset over those who farm and keep chickens on their property, too. They will burn in their own special version of hell. One of them SO pestered the city that they were moved to give a blight ticket to a fellow who later took his own life, from what I gathered that ticket was the last straw. And THAT ticket was for a pile of wood chips that he hadn't yet had the time to spread...but it was for a grand or MORE. No way anyone could bear that idiocy, or be forced to pay an attorney for the priviledge of regaining that ever-so-elusive freedom we so claim in this land.


I'm not fond of these sort of things, since they are the whole forcing their will upon the freedoms of the individual. Codes should keep some from danger, and others ON a master plan overall for zoning...but so much of it is foolishness.

Worse when you go to planned areas where they dictate relatively ridiculous rules for commercial signage that makes not a single business locatable by moving traffic. There are a few places like that in CA and GA that I've seen, and while there is some charm to seeing the standard McDonald's sign a foot off the ground with mini-golden arches...at what point has coding gone too far?!

You are out of your gourd. Our neighborhood has 5-10 fires per year. It has been a hot spot for fire bugs since the 80’s. The art house was burned by one of the long time neighborhood residents who is sick of all of the gentrification [[stupid white punk rock/hippie art house included in gentrification). No one who is going for gentrification wants to live next to a burnt up house.
I’m not going to go into it on here, but Dave had a lot of other stuff going on. I don’t think you should exploit his death to make some point about how blight is ok.

[lincoln8740]

My question is more along the lines as to why the owners cannot be pursued for their personal or business assets after a fine becomes delinquent? If one flagrantly refuses to pay a fine, isn't garnishment and or jail the next step? That is what happens to traffic ticket scofflaws.

T
he fines run with the land sort of like a water bill. If you start fining people then you have so many due process concerns it would be a pain in the ass to collect. Also what if the building owner is an LLC and the only asset the LLC has is the building itself--how would the city collect?

[n7hn]

I thought leins were placed on the property, fines increase and its deal with if and when the property is sold..... is that wrong?

[Richard]

"Focusing solely on business properties"
The large ones take years of red tape before a nail can even be set ,city, state, fed. EPA etc. etc
The national preservation trust does have basic guidelines for mothballing historic related buildings that are used by many code enforcement agencies around the country and when used correctly they do have teeth.

They seem to be based on community involvement by using neighborhood groups,these groups present the case to the board.After a police officer makes his report not inspectors kinda like the squeaky wheel gets the grease situation.

How can this be fixed? How would you fix it?

It is part of a way bigger problem, I am not dissing Detroit but only going by what I have encountered in the past 60 days dealing locally and state level aside from a busy mayor everything below is basically non functional ,nobody returns phone calls ,emails etc. and has the general attitude of do not bother me I am busy. In other-words the citizens really do not have much of a say in what is really happening,who knows maybe those up top are used to a compliant flock and just go about doing as they were.

Growing pains , code enforcement when used correctly and compassionately is a extremely use-full tool, but it is kinda like dropping a soldier in the middle of the battle field with no weapon looks nice but it all just part of a facade.

[Jimaz]

I witness properties owned by people with immense wealth ... that sit as blighted rotting, unsecured public safety hazards, some for decades.

Focusing solely on business properties, I ask the forum how does this happen?

I'm certainly no expert but I get the impression the speculators are essentially threatening to hold their future tax dollars hostage in return for the ransom of lax code enforcement that allows them to play the game they play.

From today's Detroit News: Taxpayers own 50K properties in Detroit

As the city's population has declined by half since 1950 to about 900,000, more than 39,000 parcels have fallen into the city's control — far more than any single landowner and more than eight times the tally of the largest 10 landowners combined.

Another 10,300 parcels are owned by the state or federal government, meaning that roughly 12 percent of all parcels in the city are publicly owned....

Detroit is believed to have more taxpayer-owned land than any other city in the United States, and the parcels produce no taxes, cost money to maintain and are often blighted themselves....

Land reverts to the city if it isn't sold at tax foreclosure auctions. In 2009, the city took ownership of 7,928 parcels, more than double the 3,648 it acquired in 2008. Through November 2010, the city had taken control of 6,847 parcels.

So could it be that the city dare not offend the speculators for fear of losing even more of the tax revenue stream?

[GOAT]

I am wondering if another court could be set up to push through these scofflaws. According to the second part of this series Detroit is owed $41 million in blight penalties!

I would think the penalty should be higher but if paid within a certain timeframe or the building brought to code the penalty is reduced.

What revenue stream Jimaz? Many of these guys don't pay the taxes on said land already or if they do they are so miniscule I don't think it would add that much to the city's coffers. As Lowell stated many of these have a lot of money [[except poor Mike Kelly...sarcasm) they are just playing games like that fink Maroun.

[lincoln8740]

I thought leins were placed on the property, fines increase and its deal with if and when the property is sold..... is that wrong?

You are correct. I was just replying to the question posed of why doesn't the city go after people personally.

[stasu1213]

It's actually quite simple: Inspectors only issue tickets to those they think will pay. It's a complete waste of time to write tickets on a property that is either abandoned or not cared for.

I get tickets all the time and I am trying to do my best but the abandoned four family around the corner where the crackheads have a fucking hose hooked up to a gas line for some heat? They never get bothered.

I have a friend who lives in Lafayette Towers. She had called the city inspectors about the elevator that hasn't been working for a year. The inspector had said as long as one out of three elevators is working the city cannot ticket or force the complex to fix all three elevators. Lafayette Towers had been in violation of many codes. She thinks that the inspectors or someone who work for the building and safety department is being paid off by the owner. I wonder if those who could pay sometimes pay off

[gdogslim]

I think what needs to happen in all of these cases of abandonment, purchasing, investing, and whatever of properties: is to issue a stay on a grandfather clause of use within a time frame.
In other words, when a property is sold after a certain date, determined by the city,
that the property in question must be addressed as to will it be demolished or improved.
A time limit to be set should be in place as when a future owner will determine redevelopment.
How this will be enacted, I really don't know other than a time stamp at time of sale.

[BrushStart]

You are out of your gourd. Our neighborhood has 5-10 fires per year. It has been a hot spot for fire bugs since the 80’s. The art house was burned by one of the long time neighborhood residents who is sick of all of the gentrification [[stupid white punk rock/hippie art house included in gentrification). No one who is going for gentrification wants to live next to a burnt up house.
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FYI, there is no "gentrification" in Detroit. Do you know anyone in this entire city who has been displaced and/or priced out of a neighborhood by these so-called "stupid white punk rock/hippie" people? It's really reassuring to see that some Detroiters would rather live next door to a burnt out shell of a house than next door to some new resident who will maintain the property.

[wolverine]

Incompetence. There's just so much of it. Detroit can't enforce building code violations when they lack the resources and are dealing with people they probably can't even find.

I love Chicago's accruing fines for larger delinquent properties. One here apparently got $6000 per day for every day they failed to fix the problem. I think they ended up forking over $4 million before the problems were resolved. That'll fund a pretty nice new neighborhood park.

[skyl4rk]

One problem with code enforcement is fair and equal treatment of all property owners. If you ding one property owner, you should go after all property owners with the same violation. This is very difficult when a massively large number of property owners are all doing the same code violation.

[detr0itkid]

FYI, there is no "gentrification" in Detroit. Do you know anyone in this entire city who has been displaced and/or priced out of a neighborhood by these so-called "stupid white punk rock/hippie" people? It's really reassuring to see that some Detroiters would rather live next door to a burnt out shell of a house than next door to some new resident who will maintain the property.

For the record, to gentrify, according to Webster’s, means “to convert a deteriorated or aging area in a city into a more affluent middle-class neighborhood, as by remodeling dwellings, resulting in increased property values and in displacement of the poor.”

Briggs [[aka North Cork Town) has always been bottom of the rung poor people. Most of the hillbilly, which are now mostly mixed race, families descend from people that have been in this area for 60-100 years [[3-5 generations +). They are mostly southern who came to the north so that they could avoid working in coal mines and dying of black lung disease. They were content living in their shot gun shacks, living lawlessly as if in Appalachia, and burning down houses as their cousins moved from the neighborhood to Taylor. In doing this they prevented anyone new from moving into the neighborhood. This worked fine until it became so desolate that the Corktown Development Company was able to swoop in, buy up land, demo houses, and build new houses. This brought new residents and a new way of life for the old residents. Property values on the old properties went up. Some of the residents took advantage of it and sold to urban homesteaders. Some landlords sold their apartment buildings to people who renovated them and increased rent from $300-$600 per month thus displacing people. Some people re-financed their shot gun shacks for more than market value and have since gotten foreclosed and moved out. Some of the previous residents were, and still are, thrilled to have been “Gifted” with new clean neighbors, increased aesthetics, increased police presence, and increased property values. However, equally as many of the old residents are resentful of this change which has been forced on them. I know who burnt down the art house, he is more or less ok with the revitalization, but does not understand the dynamics of the “freaky people” who were going to be taking over that house. He has a ton of kids and didn’t want that to be around them.
I personally am for the gentrification and am participating in it, however I am aware that the previous residents are “victims” of this change and sympathize with them. I would never actively try to change their way of life but I am well aware that my actions to “improve” the neighborhood are causing the demise of their way of life which has been going on for over 100 years. Obviously it is not reassuring that someone, in an effort to “preserve” their neighborhood, would burn down a house. But I see where the frustration comes from. Some people are so poor and uneducated that they cannot do anything else to stop this invasion of their neighborhood. The only option he knew was to burn it down so he did. From a gentrificationist standpoint, I am not thrilled having people coming into the neighborhood seeing a 3X burnt shell of a house just sitting there, but as a sympathetic human being I understand why it was done and will not interfere with this guys perceived right to keep certain things, which he deems unacceptable, from his neighborhood.

[lincoln8740]

I love Chicago's accruing fines for larger delinquent properties. One here apparently got $6000 per day for every day they failed to fix the problem. I think they ended up forking over $4 million before the problems were resolved. That'll fund a pretty nice new neighborhood park.

Most landlords are getting the hell out of the city , you institute that Chicago plan, the pace will be even quicker.


Large fines only work if the property is worth something, Land in Detroit is basically worthless so fine/ put liens on the property all you want, people just walk away