Guns in bars and churches?

**p1acebo** · January-25-11, 03:38 PM

In my opinion, this is the worst idea ever.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011012...-churches-bars

**Detroitnerd** · January-25-11, 03:41 PM

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition ...

**401don** · January-25-11, 04:23 PM

Bartender, set em up!

**Dent** · January-25-11, 06:16 PM

Go go guns!

**canuck** · January-25-11, 07:22 PM

Reminds me of the story in Canada that the Quebec National Assembly [[Provincial Parliament) security stopped a Sikh delegation from attending a hearing about the law proposal to refuse Niqab wearing women social services in Quebec. They stopped members from going to the meeting because delegates were wearing kirpans [[ceremonial knives). Check out what this first opinion piece says about the banned ceremonial knife and then the opposite opinion. Check the comments from readers.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...the-bloc-head/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1879382/

As far as I'm concerned, the looney Terry Glavin is a hypocrite. If he cant cut a banana with a kirpan, he must be hitting the Crown Royal pretty good. How is it that they wont allow a nailcutter on aircraft and some guy with religious varnish can walk in with a dagger inside a congressional building?

Also, the Liberal Party leader Michael Ignatieff claims that the kirpan is a harmless religious symbol. Last year in Brampton Ontario, some guy used his kirpan to stick it to fellow sikh. Enlightening.

**buildingsofdetroit** · January-25-11, 07:46 PM

As someone who saw a gun pulled by one drunken man on another at Jumbo's last summer, I can say this absolutely terrifies me. You can't drink and drive, but you can drink and pack heat?

**jackie5275** · January-25-11, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition ...

Yeah because I KNOW I'm going to get mugged in church.

**p1acebo** · January-25-11, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

As someone who saw a gun pulled by one drunken man on another at Jumbo's last summer, I can say this absolutely terrifies me. You can't drink and drive, but you can drink and pack heat?

I know, it is a pretty stupid concept to propose for sure.

**JTistle1** · January-25-11, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by buildingsofdetroit

As someone who saw a gun pulled by one drunken man on another at Jumbo's last summer, I can say this absolutely terrifies me. You can't drink and drive, but you can drink and pack heat?

You can't "drink and pack heat" now. I'm sure that they will not get rid of that stipulation if that passes. As far as being able to carry concealed in church, have you seen what has happened in churches this past year?
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-15/j...dy?_s=PM:CRIME
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_742586.html
http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime...rch_shootings/

**Ray1936** · January-25-11, 08:43 PM

Well, some of the worst descriptions of violence I've ever read are found in the bible, so I dunno why not......

DetroitDad · January-26-11, 12:24 AM

OMG! It seems that people are bringing guns into churches even though it's illegal!

Originally Posted by JTistle1

You can't "drink and pack heat" now. I'm sure that they will not get rid of that stipulation if that passes. As far as being able to carry concealed in church, have you seen what has happened in churches this past year?
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-15/j...dy?_s=PM:CRIME
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_742586.html
http://blogs.star-telegram.com/crime...rch_shootings/

**maxx** · January-26-11, 09:23 AM

And of course, all the good guys shooting at the bad guy couldn't possibly take out an innocent bystander. Too many people mostly of the male persuasion have got the Dirty Harry syndrome.

**Searay215** · January-26-11, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by maxx

And of course, all the good guys shooting at the bad guy couldn't possibly take out an innocent bystander. Too many people mostly of the male persuasion have got the Dirty Harry syndrome.

Any CPL holder will tell you that use of deadly force is a Last resort.....1. Flee if possible, 2. Call 911 and 3. Then and ONLY then if your life is in Imminent Danger should you use deadly force. All CPL holders have been taught is to know where you are shooting.

First let me point out that by no means am I an expert in gun laws in Michigan.....I am aware of where as a CPL holder I can and can not go. Question to all of you that think this is a good or bad idea....when was the last time you heard of a law abiding citizen arrested for carrying in a place that he was not supposed to carry? I haven't heard any.....

As you may remember only a few days ago, a man with a firearm walked into a police station where you are NOT supposed to be carrying a weapon and fired at the police. Obviously wanted suicide by cop.
Not your normal individual......

I have forgotten to remove my concealed firearm when going into a bank and other places. I am not in agreement with this concept nor am I advocating a Wild West approach, just a more sensible one.

**Hypestyles** · January-26-11, 11:04 AM

the way the current Legislature is stacked up, it will probably pass.. who knows whether Snyder would veto or not.. can the state Legislature overturn his veto?

**ejames01** · January-26-11, 11:14 AM

If someone is trying to kill you, #3 might be more important than pulling out your cell phone.

Originally Posted by Searay215

Any CPL holder will tell you that use of deadly force is a Last resort.....1. Flee if possible, 2. Call 911 and 3. Then and ONLY then if your life is in Imminent Danger should you use deadly force. All CPL holders have been taught is to know where you are shooting.

First let me point out that by no means am I an expert in gun laws in Michigan.....I am aware of where as a CPL holder I can and can not go. Question to all of you that think this is a good or bad idea....when was the last time you heard of a law abiding citizen arrested for carrying in a place that he was not supposed to carry? I haven't heard any.....

**maxx** · January-26-11, 01:10 PM

All CPL holders have been taught is to know where you are shooting.

They also need to know what they are shooting with. Some bullets don't stop when they hit a body especially at close range.

**maxx** · January-26-11, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

the way the current Legislature is stacked up, it will probably pass.. who knows whether Snyder would veto or not.. can the state Legislature overturn his veto?

I heard the Republicans have already lined up votes to override any veto.

DetroitDad · January-26-11, 10:40 PM

Are you suggesting it would be better to let some nut with a gun open fire on a group of unarmed people, rather than some of those people having the means to fire back?

Originally Posted by maxx

And of course, all the good guys shooting at the bad guy couldn't possibly take out an innocent bystander. Too many people mostly of the male persuasion have got the Dirty Harry syndrome.

**1KielsonDrive** · January-26-11, 11:06 PM

Yes, a double helping, please. Right-wing, fanatic, gun-loving christians consider it unconstitutional to restrict guns. And they get their way because their gun lobby is so well funded. Put them to the test - let guns become legal in churches, courts, cop shops and congress too. Maybe their lord will intervene if a gun fight erupts. If your not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And they need to be right where the rest of us are - in the middle of the problem. A couple more shoot outs in the middle of these sacrosanct places and maybe they'll decide they're vulnerable too. All this stink over a congressional representative being shot and not a word about all of the people dead from gun violence on a daily basis. It's terrible she was shot, but what makes her more important than kids in schools, on the streets?

**canuck** · January-26-11, 11:47 PM

Gunzerfun. Like in da movies. Fuck peashooters and spitballs, there's no telling when you'll hear the next shot. Guns are for strong silent types but also for the loudmouths and the weak and cowardly. There's a gun for everybody. Say a prayer to guns. Raise a glass to guns. Shoot up in da air to guns on Halloween or New Years' Eve; why not awready?
Pack'em on your mourning constitutional.

**1KielsonDrive** · January-27-11, 03:22 PM

I'd like to add: I'm a gun owner. I believe in the personal right to own guns. Not unlimited numbers of guns and not weapons of mass destruction. I love reading about and taking part in hunting with friends though I'm not a hunter myself. I once owned a very fast, hot rod car in my callow youth. When the cops caught me going very, very fast, I was sanctioned [[ticketed) and my driving rights we're limited until I got my poop together. Sensible regulations should also apply to guns. I believe wild westerners in public office and business who believe in unlimited rights for gun owners, should not be allowed to limit guns in their offices and work places. Let them have a taste of the real world. They'll continue professing their love and support for the constitution until they, their family, or colleagues get shot up.

**JTistle1** · January-27-11, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Let them have a taste of the real world. They'll continue professing their love and support for the constitution until they, their family, or colleagues get shot up.

Real world is the fact that bad people prefer to prey on good people that have no way to defend themselves. Criminals do not care what laws that they are breaking. That is why I pulled up three separate church shootings from the past year as examples above. It is legal to carry a concealed weapon in a church if you have written permission from the head official[[s) in that church. I know of churches that are moving toward having ushers/ security apply for CCWs. One of the church shootings in Colorado this past year was ended by an armed security person from that church. I always thought that I was pretty sensible, but I must be one of those "right-wing, fanatic, gun-loving Christians" that you referred to earlier.

**runnerXT** · January-27-11, 07:55 PM

America the freak show!

The US is 5% of the world's population:

Not including war.

1) The United States accounts for 45-50 percent of the world's gun deaths.

2) Americans own between 35 and 50 percent [[270 million) of the world’s civilian-owned guns. Americans buy about 4.5 million of the 8 million new firearms manufactured every year.

America is a morally bankrupt country .

**JTistle1** · January-27-11, 08:25 PM

In response to Runnerxt
International Violent Death Rate Table Discussion
"U.S. Leads Richest Nations In Gun Deaths" - AP article originally featured in CNN interactive U.S. news
"In 1996 there were over 34,000 gun deaths in the U.S." - Los Angeles Times, "Chicago Sues Gun Makers and Sellers", p 1, Nov. 13, 1998
"The United States leads the industrialized world in level of gun-related deaths." - 1997-98 National Gun Policy Survey of the National Opinion Research Center, p 2 [[citing two newspapers and the United Nations Study on Firearms Regulation)
"Gun death" statistics are frequently cited, in the manner above, to strongly suggest that guns are the cause behind the high violent death rate in the U.S. As in the case of the Los Angeles Times article, no mention is made that over half of those violent deaths are suicides. The CNN article mentions gun homicides and gun suicides, but fails to show us the total violent death rate of other countries, not just gun deaths. For example, in Japan, where gun ownership is rare, its total suicide rate is higher than our total suicide rate.
Combining gun suicide and homicide deaths creates a sensational comparison with other countries, but only clouds and distorts the many factors actually behind violent death rates. Looking at only gun deaths, it is easy to get the false impression that, because of guns, the United States is the most violent country on earth.

Rather than being the "league leader" in violent death rates, as the sensational and misleading media reports suggest when focusing exclusively on guns, though the U.S. is still high, its violent death rate is not orders of magnitude higher than other countries. [[See also international homicide comparisons.)

The "gun death" statistic is seldom referenced within its proper perspective and context. Also rare is the article that mentions the number of lives saved through defensive gun use and that our homicide rate is at a thirty year low and still declining [[FBI Uniform Crime Reports).
[[This is from http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvintl.html )

**runnerXT** · January-27-11, 09:43 PM

lol ok!

So we will take away all gun deaths in america that are suicide but for fun leave the suicides by guns in the rest of the world combined in the stat and then do the comparison.

Without including suicides by gun in America, the United States constitutes 5% of the worlds population but 22-25% of the world's gun deaths.