Why do you pray for others?

**terryh** · January-24-11, 09:15 PM

One can only speculate, or want to believe there is a spiritual world, but we know there is a material world full of cause and effect situations. So, instead of praying for the officers who were shot, why not take action and organize a picket or mass email campaign demanding a safer work environment for police officers in the City Of Detroit [[bullet proof glass at precint stations)

If you know someone who suffers from a terrible disease, wouldnt it be more productive to organize a fundraising drive for research,or to become an organ donor?

Seems like a waste of time to pray for others. Other than comfort, and self gratification whats the point?

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-24-11, 10:37 PM

I understand exactly where you're coming from and I don't begrudge you for your position. But for those who are not religious, let's substitute a different word for prayer: meditation. Sometimes people need to meditate to come to the same conclusion of actions to take as you came up with. Lots of religions are charitable and maybe it's through prayer that they decided charity was the way to go. In any event, I'd rather someone pray for me than to shoot at me.

**Pam** · January-25-11, 07:43 AM

I'm not religious either Terry, but I think it can help the person being prayed for because they know others care about them. It can cheer them up if nothing else. [[Of course concrete actions are also helpful.)

**Gannon** · January-25-11, 08:00 AM

I'm not sure it matters what you call it, but when you think good thoughts...for BETTER conditions and other things that seem beyond your direct control to affect...science is steadily proving it makes a difference.

They proved with the derogatorily-nicknamed and largely-dismissed 'faith' studies at the Mayo Clinic that remote 'concern' for others makes a difference in how a person heals and feels. More physicists look into things...they are proving that everything is strung together in an amazing tapestry of a vibratory illusion...and the more they publish, they MORE they sound like Buddhist Monks.

So, we seem to be quickly approaching a time when religion and science may intersect, or at least do a spiral dance that mimics the DNA and water-molecule twist. For those with nothing to lose, it is the most exciting time ever.

For those with a defined "despisition" of the 'opposition', it is going to be very tough on them! Those profiting power [[at least) within religion seem to not WANT to reconcile with science, and those deeply dipped in the faith of science refuse to see that for what it truly is...merely another form of faith.

Cheers

**Gannon** · January-25-11, 08:12 AM

I re-read your post, Terryh, and it seems your strong ego doesn't yet allow you to see the full effects of your non-active intentions...without these you would never act positively. Sometimes the more subtle approach is necessary, there ARE times when direct action can cause more trouble than intended. Most often, the action will be mis-guided...as in the one you mention.

If we picket, it should be against those who refuse to value life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, AND the freedom and willingness to be policed. Indeed, if the laws are just and applied fairly...and opportunity abounds for ALL to succeed at life without making others suffer...then not a ONE of us would or should [[or even COULD) rebel against authority in any form.

This shooting seems to have been the refusal of one to have hidden secrets revealed...he saw the police as his enemy, because he may have been doing things well outside the norm and against society. If anything, you should be upset over HIM and his decisions.

No amount of plexiglass would solve that issue, he would just stroll into a donut shop or McDonalds and take out a group of officers in public. This was recently done in California, where all police stations are fortresses.

So, where would you picket THEN?!

**maxx** · January-25-11, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Pam

I'm not religious either Terry, but I think it can help the person being prayed for because they know others care about them. It can cheer them up if nothing else. [[Of course concrete actions are also helpful.)

The Templeton Foundation found in their study on prayer and healing that people in hospital who knew they were being prayed for had a harder time recovering. I guess they thought they must be dying if people were praying for them.

**Blueidone** · January-25-11, 12:36 PM

My opinion on terryh's question regarding prayer is this...if you have to ask the question, then no amount of explaining will ever make you understand.

I am not "religious" either...but I believe in God. I believe in the power of prayer. That's all there is to it. I believe that praying for someone to improve [[in whatever way is needed) works. If you don't believe it that, then there's no way to lead you to it. One either believes, or they don't.

Other "actions" may be taken as well...just because they are not stated here, doesn't mean they aren't being done.

**gazhekwe** · January-25-11, 01:12 PM

Adding positive, healing energy to the spiritual matrix of our earth does a lot of good.

**1KielsonDrive** · January-25-11, 01:14 PM

Praying is useless.

**maxx** · January-25-11, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I'm not sure it matters what you call it, but when you think good thoughts...for BETTER conditions and other things that seem beyond your direct control to affect...science is steadily proving it makes a difference.

All those people in the concentration camps weren't praying for better circumstances? All those people who living during the Black Death weren't praying for that disease to be eradicated?

They proved with the derogatorily-nicknamed and largely-dismissed 'faith' studies at the Mayo Clinic that remote 'concern' for others makes a difference in how a person heals and feels.

And then there's the Templeton study.

More physicists look into things...they are proving that everything is strung together in an amazing tapestry of a vibratory illusion...and the more they publish, they MORE they sound like Buddhist Monks.

Citations?

...and those deeply dipped in the faith of science refuse to see that for what it truly is...merely another form of faith.

Cheers

Faith requires no evidence. Science constantly requires evidence. And medical science works far oftener than religious faith alone. Just ask the Christian Scientists, [Mary Baker Eddy's followers] if you can find any.

**stipes** · January-25-11, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Praying is useless.

Please,,Im not sayin this to piss you off,,but I'm sure you heard people in the bathroom that had way too much to drink, heaving their guts up and praying and wala! They lived to drink another day!! LOL!!!

**jcole** · January-25-11, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by stipes

Please,,Im not sayin this to piss you off,,but I'm sure you heard people in the bathroom that had way too much to drink, heaving their guts up and praying and wala! They lived to drink another day!! LOL!!!

do you mean voila?

**Crumbled_pavement** · January-25-11, 03:58 PM

I love the English professors on this site.

**terryh** · January-25-11, 06:01 PM

Imagine the warm feeling the officers would have if they knew there were ordinary citizens picketing city hall for bullet proof glass at the various station houses.

Personally, Id rather hear, in my time of grief, illness and despair, Im going to volunteer or, Ive donated to such and such cause-research. When you just pray you are being lazy!

**jcole** · January-26-11, 12:05 AM

Voila is French

**Johnnny5** · January-26-11, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by terryh

One can only speculate, or want to believe there is a spiritual world, but we know there is a material world full of cause and effect situations. So, instead of praying for the officers who were shot, why not take action and organize a picket or mass email campaign demanding a safer work environment for police officers in the City Of Detroit [[bullet proof glass at precint stations)

If you know someone who suffers from a terrible disease, wouldnt it be more productive to organize a fundraising drive for research,or to become an organ donor?

Seems like a waste of time to pray for others. Other than comfort, and self gratification whats the point?

Why does physically doing something [[Picketing, fund raising, "taking action") have to be "instead of" prayer? In most forms of Christianity prayer is a relatively simple, informal practice. It's not time consuming in the least, and could actually be done while fundraising, picketing, mass mailing, etc.
If you're talking about other forms of religion where the rules, formality and tradition require a massive amount of time and effort I could understand why a choice would have to be made.

**oldredfordette** · January-26-11, 07:55 AM

I think I like wala! better.

Many people are capable of both doing and thinking at exactly the same time. Why not pray while you're working, or writing, or driving, or picketing or taking direct action? One of the charms of Women In Black is the silence allows you to fill your head and heart spiritually while you are bearing physical witness.

**belleislerunner** · January-26-11, 08:36 AM

To me prayer has two purposes.

First it serves as a theraputic means of expressing what is on your chest and releasing it. You could talk to a therapist, talk to your mom, talk to the trees or pray - in that regard - it's taking thoughts that you are struggling with and releasing them. That often allows you to self reflect and you feel the burdens liften just by sharing them - even if to an empty room. It's no longer just your secret, or your struggles you're confronting. Thus it doesn't matter if you pray to a tree, a coach or a higher being - you're self reflecting and opening yourself up and releasing your worries. Often when you pray - the act of naming the things you're dealing with - allows your mind to think through solutions that, absent that meditative state, might not have been as readily apparant.

Second, prayer to a higher being serves to act as someone petitioning on behalf of another. If I say "my thoughts are with you while you're sick" - who cares. My thoughts, in themselves without action, are meaningless. But if I say "my thoughts and prayers are with you" - in essence - I'm telling that person - I value you so much, I'm appealing to a higher being on your behalf to help you in whatever struggles you're dealing with. While I may not know the end result, or have much sway in the ultimate resolution, I take solace that someone else cared enough about me to petition to their higher being on my behalf.

**Detroitej72** · January-26-11, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by terryh

When you just pray you are being lazy!

When you bitch about people praying on an on-line forum, you are just feeding your ego.

**Pam** · January-26-11, 12:49 PM

If I say "my thoughts are with you while you're sick" - who cares. My thoughts, in themselves without action, are meaningless

No, they aren't. It's nice to know people care about you.

**terryh** · January-26-11, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

I re-read your post, Terryh, and it seems your strong ego doesn't yet allow you to see the full effects of your non-active intentions...without these you would never act positively. Sometimes the more subtle approach is necessary, there ARE times when direct action can cause more trouble than intended. Most often, the action will be mis-guided...as in the one you mention.

If we picket, it should be against those who refuse to value life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, AND the freedom and willingness to be policed. Indeed, if the laws are just and applied fairly...and opportunity abounds for ALL to succeed at life without making others suffer...then not a ONE of us would or should [[or even COULD) rebel against authority in any form.

This shooting seems to have been the refusal of one to have hidden secrets revealed...he saw the police as his enemy, because he may have been doing things well outside the norm and against society. If anything, you should be upset over HIM and his decisions.

No amount of plexiglass would solve that issue, he would just stroll into a donut shop or McDonalds and take out a group of officers in public. This was recently done in California, where all police stations are fortresses.

So, where would you picket THEN?!

Good question. I dont know. I know that in Seattle? I think it was that four officers were killed while sitting in a coffee shop. Plexiglass would make a difference because groups of cops in a small area is a sure thing so to speak.

**Detroitej72** · January-27-11, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by terryh

Good question. I don't know. I know that in Seattle? I think it was that four officers were killed while sitting in a coffee shop. Plexiglas would make a difference because groups of cops in a small area is a sure thing so to speak.

So, should a coffee house have a safe, Plexiglas area where cops could sit and drink coffee while being protected?

I suspect then, that you would bitch about cops hiding behind "the glass", and not being "out in the real world".

**Detroitej72** · January-27-11, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

When you bitch about people praying on an on-line forum, you are just feeding your ego.

BTW, Why do you keep avoiding my statement?

**oldredfordette** · January-27-11, 07:36 AM

Why is it worse when cops get shot then when ordinary people get shot? Here in metro Detroit, casual gunfire seems to be something we're encouraged to take in stride but when cops get shot, we go bonkers?***

Terryh, why do you have a problem with prayer? What is wrong with whatever anybody is doing in their head?

***of course it's terrible when ANYBODY gets shot.

**East Detroit** · January-27-11, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by terryh

Seems like a waste of time to pray for others. Other than comfort, and self gratification whats the point?

Praying for others is the only way to go. You shouldn't pray for yourself. Praying adds to the positive within the collective consciousness of your society. Don't know what I mean? Go to a lively party and see how you feel, then go to a funeral and see how you feel. The difference in feeling is to a great extent due to the collective expressive feelings of the people who were and are there.

Praying does not exclude actions. It is additive. Praying does not require religious dogma. It is simply an act to generate more positive thought.