Ok Mr. Bing. You're in. Now please do the following...

[lo_to_d]

Tax what we don't want, not what we want.
1. Announce a five year plan to eliminate city income tax. Not cut, eliminate it. We can't compete with the suburbs if we continue to tax what we want to have [[ie, income for our residents and businesses).

2. Replace the lost revenue with the following taxes [[which could be instituted first to stop the current bleeding);
a) Double the property tax on abandoned, commercial buildings in and around downtown. We need to get rid of the speculators who are doing nothing but letting their buildings rot. There are many people who would buy and upgrade these buildings if they were not overpriced. Higher taxes would encourage building owners to sell their abandoned buildings for less money. If you get a tenant, the tax goes back down.
b) Tax city employees who do not live in the city, at the higher current income tax rate [[including casino workers) [[This would take a change in state legistlation, but can be done).
c) Start a 5 cent per gallon gasoline tax to encourage public transit.
d) Charge a $2 tax for cars to go on Belle Isle, tax by the car, not people.
I could think of many more, but you get the idea. Brainstorm... some might be good ideas and some not, but imo the worst is taxing income when the surrounding areas don't.

3. Announce a five year plan to lure any businesses currently located in the suburbs to move downtown. You have the business connections, find out what it will take for the companies currently located in Warren, Southfield, Troy, etc. to move downtown [[including at least some of channel 2 and 7 broadcasting). Currently, one reason for them to do it is because young talent is attracted to downtowns, not suburbs. I'm sure their number one reason not to is the high taxes.

What things do you want to see Bing accomplish? Please give a detailed start plan.

[professorscott]

Why not just cut the cost of city government, which is still designed to serve a city of 2 million people, and only have the staffing levels the suburban communities have? Then you could lower the property tax, eliminate the income tax and not have to do things that violate the Michigan constitution [[such as a local government charging a tax on gasoline).

[Crumbled_pavement]

First . . .

Tax city employees who do not live in the city, at the higher current income tax rate [[including casino workers).

Then . . .

imo the worst is taxing income when the surrounding areas don't.

I'm confused . . .

[buzzman0077]

I agree with most of those points. I don't like the idea of a 2 dollar charge to get onto belle isle. There must be a better way to make up the difference.

[lo_to_d]

You could still walk or bike across to Belle Isle for free.

As for the confusion of increasing the income tax on city employees who do not live in the city... Most people, who live in the city, want the city employees to live in the city too, When they changed the law, it contributed to the population vacuum. So I say keep the income tax on them to encourage city employees to live in the city.

As for the Michigan state laws... they are very anti-urban. That's a big reason why our cities have such problems.

I want to hear other peoples ideas for Bing.

[ejames01]

The gas tax would be silly. People would just cross the border to fill up.

[Patrick]

Announce a five year plan to lure any businesses currently located in the suburbs to move downtown.

Yeah man, come work downtown where you have to pay to park and pay city income tax.

[lilpup]

If you want to truly tax what isn't desirable then tax the strip clubs. They can afford it.

Make better use of potentially money earning venues like Chene Park Ampitheater. Book that place right and it could pay for the Parks and Rec department.

Eliminating the city income tax would be nice but it's not realistic at this point, nor is taxing non-residents more for working in the city. The latter is also bad policy.

[E hemingway]

Income tax makes up about 15 percent of the city's revenue stream. Property taxes are about 12 percent. Cutting property taxes significantly first would make a bigger impact and cost less than cutting the income tax. Ideally, the income tax should go and property tax made competitive with the suburbs. There is the possibility of some real progress to be made on these two fronts when the city charter is revised. Whoever sits on that charter commission after this fall will have more power to shape the way Detroit's government works and how much it takes out of your pocket than some members of City Council.

[Locke09]

The City cannot realistically afford to reduce either property or income tax right now [[as much as I wish they would). Expenditures have to be significantly reduced in order to reduce the taxes.

Now, it doesn't make sense to call for elimination of staff unless you call for elimination of services as well. There is no featherbedding occuring. Every agency is severely short staffed now. You might argue that Council and the Mayor's Office have too much staffing, but for the agencies, you're going to have to talk about which services you want to eliminate.

So, please let Mayor Bing know which services you think can be eliminated.

And why compare Detroit staffing levels to suburban staffing levels? How many suburbs provide street lighting, sidewalks, transportation of the level that Detroit provides, etc.?Many provide fewer types of services, but they do those fewer services better.

[digitalvision]

Although folks heart is in the right place, the practicality isn't there. Some of the things you propose I don't think are legal... and others are folly [[like the gas tax). In fact, your idea on the gas tax is taxing a bunch of poor people even more who are barely making it because most of the people who can afford it are going to just go get gas when they go home, hurting Detroit gas stations and just hurting Detroiters.

Here are some solutions I think would work.

1) The city owns a veritable shitload of parking spaces. Make them free for the first two hours with validation to all businesses within the CBD, and do the same for neighborhood commercial centers throughout the city [[seems as though many of plans seem to forget the city exists past the T district). After that, $3 or $5 max. Even on game days.

2) Strip clubs aren't the answer. That doesn't help you but a few pennies when you need a lot more. Stop looking for new revenue and start right sizing government and get out of ALL non-essential tasks. Fire, police, EMS, etc. and everything else is a "if we can" basis.

3) One area to increase revenue is Belle Isle. Sorry, free Belle isle is NOT practical. The city simply cannot afford it, even though I understand the racial and historical ties to it being a free place.

So I agree with the charge for cars - and it'll get the riffraff off from when I used to live across from it and it'd be bumpin' at 3 in the moanin'. That doesn't belong on a family park, plain and simple, and Belle Isle needs a revenue stream. It can't be a Metropark - the system doesn't want it.

4) Start shutting down almost empty neighborhoods. There's simply no way to cover that much land with services. It's not popular, but it's also the only thing to do. There is almost zero tax revenue in some of these areas. Have Oprah come speak for it, it'll go over just fine [[i.e. it's all about how you sell it). Bring it back when it fills up again.

[Locke09]

digitalvision,

I agree with 1, 2 and 3. 2 is the most important. That's why I keep asking what services people think can be eliminated. My priority services I have said are public safety, street lighting, refuse/bulk [[all those things DPW does) and transportation. The revenue generating agencies, which pay for themselves [[Water, Buildings and Safety, etc.) would also naturally remain.

[lilpup]

Get rid of strip clubs and cut down the number of liquor stores and you'll free up a lot of police time while improving the quality of life in the neighborhoods affected.

[iheartthed]

1. Develop a true master plan for the city.
2. Get the city out of the real estate business.
3. Put a moratorium on parking structures being built downtown.
4. Consolidate DDOT with SMART.
4b. Make a public request for a true regional train system, not some little toy train going up and down the middle of Woodward Ave.
5. Encourage Ilitch to build the new Red Wings arena at Michigan and Trumbull, instead of downtown.

I think the city income tax is a non-issue. Other booming cities exist that have city income taxes... And eliminating the income tax won't make Detroit more attractive than the suburbs. At best it will make Detroit less unappealing in comparison to the suburbs.

The only way to make Detroit more attractive than the suburbs is to provide better services, particularly transit options. Transportation infrastructure and denser communities are the only way for Detroit to win this battle.

[dtowncitylover]

I would be in favor of a $2 charge for Belle Isle during certain hours, let's say during the evening hours and on weekends. I would also like to see Belle Isle to become 24 hrs. again.

But I think we should attract businesses, not only from the suburbs, but from businesses that are looking to set up shop in the Metro Area.

[Prodigal_Son]

Sorry to spoil the party, but...

Do you really think the city's problems are economic? Sure, there has been a lot of mismanagement, but the mismanagement is less than 1/10th of the problem.

Consider the timeline:

1960s: People with lots of money live and work in Detroit.
1970s: Detroit gains reputation for crime; upper/middle class workers move out in droves.
1980s: Houses become dirt cheap, fall into serious disrepair. Crime flourishes.

And so on. Coleman Young et al. didn't help, but they weren't the fundamental problem. Detroit is a city abandoned. Tax incentives are necessary, and will help, but many [[most?) suburban people will not invest in the city even if it is in their best financial interest. History has proven that.

We need something more, some city/suburb healing that works on a visceral -- even a spiritual -- level. That's what I want out of Bing. I want him to communicate loudly that suburbanites are welcome here, that we're sorry for any sores we've allowed to fester.

The hope, then, would be that those in the suburbs would become conscious of the fear that has clouded their judgments of Detroit. They would also apologize -- and, in my opinion, their apology is the one that can change the future of the city.

[Fnemecek]

Announce a five year plan to eliminate city income tax. Not cut, eliminate it. We can't compete with the suburbs if we continue to tax what we want to have [[ie, income for our residents and businesses).

Cutting income taxes is okay. However, if you really want to have an impact then it's time to take a very close look at Detroit's property taxes.

We are currently paying a little over 64 mils in total property taxes. Almost 2/3 of that figure, however, is nothing more than debt service. We pay astronomically high property taxes, but very little of it actually goes towards paying for government services. We just paying on our debts from years past.

With interest rates at historic lows, I believe that now is the time for the City of Detroit, the Detroit Public Schools and Wayne County to do a combined refinancing and restructuring of our debt. This would enable us to reduce the overall property tax burden and to free up more of tax dollars for improvement in public services.

[Locke09]

We pay astronomically high property taxes, but very little of it actually goes towards paying for government services. We just paying on our debts from years past.

With interest rates at historic lows, I believe that now is the time for the City of Detroit, the Detroit Public Schools and Wayne County to do a combined refinancing and restructuring of our debt. This would enable us to reduce the overall property tax burden and to free up more of tax dollars for improvement in public services.

I think our bond ratings keep us from being able to refinance at a lower rate. But if that could happen, it would be the true feasible way to reduce our property tax burden. We can't just cut it, because as you say, most of it goes to pay debt obligations.

[Fnemecek]

There are many factors that go into a community's bond rating, such as the size of our tax burden relative to our obligations and the overall state of our economy. Both of those things would be improved by refinancing and restructuring of our debts.

There is, therefore, is realistic chance that our bond rating would improve because of such a move.

[E hemingway]

"We are currently paying a little over 64 mils in total property taxes. Almost 2/3 of that figure, however, is nothing more than debt service."

Wow. I had no idea that much was just bond service. In that case the city could cut its general fund third and refinance the rest. That would lower the property tax burden immensely.

Just out of curiousity, who puts the bond measures on the ballot? Is that a call made by the mayor or city council or even just department heads? If it's the mayor, then Bing could just put a moratorium on new bonds or renewing bonds during his term. That would slowly but surely, maybe even painlessly, lower the property tax bill over the next four years.

[Locke09]

The City cannot cut its general fund by one third. That is totally unrealistic.

Examine the City's budget. It is online. You will find that once you take out public safety and the enterprise agencies [[those that generate more than they cost) you are left with very little. Then you have some agencies like Finance, HR, ITS and Law, that support the public safety agencies and enterprise agencies. You have to fund some portion of those agencies to keep the others operational. There simply is not a lot to cut anymore. People keep thinking there is a lot of fluff, but there isn't.

Again, if you call for cuts in the general fund, identify those services that should no longer be provided. The City has just been cutting across the board for the past 8 years. That is part of the problem.

[E hemingway]

I didn't say cut the general fund by a third. I said cut the amount of property taxes not dedicated to bond debt, about one third of property taxes according to fnemeck. Property taxes make up about 12 percent of the city's revenue, so cutting that non-debt-service third of property taxes would equal about four percent of the city's revenue. The city could probably find most of that 4 percent to cut from the City Council and Mayor's budget alone.

And yes, there is plenty of cutting left to do. I believe fnemeck pointed out not too long ago that there is something like half a dozen agencies dedicated to economic development. That's redundancy right there. Plus, why does the city need a department of human rights? There's plenty of places to cut, but just cutting won't suffice anymore. The whole bureacracy has to be blown up, reinvented, resized and repriced.

[Locke09]

OK, I misunderstood. But,

The City expects to collect about $314 million in general city property taxes for this fiscal year. If one third is what's left over after debt service, that is $105 million. You would have to cut close to 2000 employees to eliminate that much from the budget. But,

Of the 14,700 city employees, 5500 are enterprise funded [[not general fund), 392 are the courts [[already very short staffed), Fire, Police, Lighting and DPW are 6200 [[They are also understaffed and I believe they should be considered priorities for an increase in staff). That leaves, from my way of thinking, about 2600 employees to cut from. Of those 2600 employees, some have to be retained to support the HR, technology, legal, etc. needs of the priority agencies. So, cut 2000 employes and you have only the basics left. And you aren't even going to be doing those well. [[Someone else might have a different set of basics, these are just mine.)

I've said on more than one post, on more than one thread, that there are agencies that are nice to have when you can afford them, but must go away when you can't. I named Human Rights, I even named Neighborhood City Halls. I am specific when I talk about how cuts should be made and I just suggest that others who propose cuts should be specific too, because across the board cuts have just rendered the entire City totally ineffective. When people won't name what services or functions they can do without, then I don't think they are serious, like they're asking the Mayor and City government to be.

So, there is not "plenty" of cutting to do without eliminating entire departments. Even then it is not so simple. There are lots of little costs [[too complex to get into on this forum) that you still don't get rid of when you get rid of the employees.

Also, there is only one City agency dedicated to economic development. That agency is Planning and Development. You might be thinking of those quasi-city agencies like DEGC. They are not funded by the City. Of course you can make the case that P&DD can be cut and let those quasi agencies take over the City's economic development function entirely.

[Novine]

a) Double the property tax on abandoned, commercial buildings in and around downtown. We need to get rid of the speculators who are doing nothing but letting their buildings rot. There are many people who would buy and upgrade these buildings if they were not overpriced. Higher taxes would encourage building owners to sell their abandoned buildings for less money. If you get a tenant, the tax goes back down.

Not legal. The Michigan Constitution mandates uniform assessment of taxes.

b) Tax city employees who do not live in the city, at the higher current income tax rate [[including casino workers) [[This would take a change in state legistlation, but can be done).

Good luck getting that state law changed. It's never going to happen.

c) Start a 5 cent per gallon gasoline tax to encourage public transit.

Not legal. Michigan doesn't allow local governments to impose any kind of local sales or gas tax.

d) Charge a $2 tax for cars to go on Belle Isle, tax by the car, not people.

It's not a tax, it's a fee.

Three of your 4 ideas would be illegal today and there's little chance that Bing could get legislation passed at the state level to get them changed. Try coming up with realistic ideas. Any knucklehead with a keyboard can bang out pie-in-the-sky schemes.

[Novine]

"You might be thinking of those quasi-city agencies like DEGC. They are not funded by the City. "

It's not? It's funded largely by the millions in taxes that otherwise would go to the city that get funded to the DDA and then to DEGC, Perhaps Detroit should look at ending the DDA.