Neighborhoods Bing will keep/close

[Detroitriseup]

I'm looking at a house in "north" corktown, and i'm a little concerned that if bing's plan roles through that I could be out a lot of money. It brought me to thinking, they have come out saying its likely 7-9 neighborhoods will be kept... so which ones will they be? Any speculation on what will stay and what will close?

They'll keep regular corktown for sure, how about north corktown?
I'm sure they'll keep boston edison, indian village and palmer park... i think we can lump west village in with indian, east english village will be kept what else that comes to 6...?

[Pushtina]

North Corktown is pretty dense, and being between Corktown and Woodbridge I'd say it's probably a pretty safe bet.

[hogz]

Good question, but I'm not sure Bing is actually going to do it in that way. I imagine that they'll clear out some really abandon areas, but I don;t think he has the resources to really carry out an ambitious plan of tearing down whole neighborhoods and infilling others etc.

[hogz]

North corktown is not that dense IMO, but it is damn nice, and indeed right between corktown and woodbridge

[Cooper]

I'm looking at a house in "north" corktown, and i'm a little concerned that if bing's plan roles through that I could be out a lot of money. It brought me to thinking, they have come out saying its likely 7-9 neighborhoods will be kept... so which ones will they be? Any speculation on what will stay and what will close?

They'll keep regular corktown for sure, how about north corktown?
I'm sure they'll keep boston edison, indian village and palmer park... i think we can lump west village in with indian, east english village will be kept what else that comes to 6...?

I think you're taking Bing's "7-9 neighborhoods" quote too literally. Residents use dozens of formal and informal neighborhood names for different parts of the city. Bing is not going to whittle that list down to just nine and tell everyone else to move. If the Detroit Works Project does designate just 7-9 areas for targeted investment, I think you'll find that they're quite large and encompass multiple smaller "neighborhoods."

I am curious though to see how the Detroit Works Project ultimately treats Briggs / North Corktown. Detroit has many neighborhoods that are now quite desolate [[Delray, Brightmoor, St. Cyril, and the border with Grosse Pointe Park all come to mind), but among these, North Corktown seems to be the closest to recovery. I think it offers a compelling counterexample to the notion that the only way forward is more demolition and relocation of residents:

http://www.rethinkdetroit.org/2010/1...orth-corktown/

It would be a shame to see it treated as just another dying corner of Detroit.

[n7hn]

This is why they should really set and announce a plan. All this talk without direction is sure to create some [[more) hesitation in those willing to buy. Ether that or announce a fair way properties in areas to be cleared will be handled, and by fair i mean actually profitable to those displaced in terms of cash or property swap with cash.

[DetroitPole]

This is why they should really set and announce a plan. All this talk without direction is sure to create some [[more) hesitation in those willing to buy. Ether that or announce a fair way properties in areas to be cleared will be handled, and by fair i mean actually profitable to those displaced in terms of cash or property swap with cash.

Bingo. I'm sure this poster is not the only person with such concerns. People are kind of left dazed and wondering what will happen where. Hell, we don't even know what will be defined as a "neighborhood."

So what is a person to do? Buy a house in a marginal neighborhood [[and come on, virtually anywhere in Detroit could be construed at marginal) and in a year find out they're not getting xxx services anymore? Surprise!

I would say if you can get a deal in North Corktown [[and you like North Corktown) you might as well take it. I doubt they would shut off such an area, with that proximity to downtown, and between Woodbridge and Corktown. My advice is to buy east of Rosa Parks or immediately surrounding it. Frankly there isn't a hell of a lot left west of there except for occasional shady activity.

I lived in North Corktown and it has its benefits. It is actually very safe [[again east of Rosa) and close to everything. I didn't like the isolated feeling of it though. You were close to everything but with all the vacant land everything felt so far. It was kind of a surreal, lunar landscape existence. No good grocery stores in walking distance. The freeway noise bothered me. The recent bad blood in Corktown that has been highlighted in recent posts also exists in North Corktown.

[renf]

Has anyone seen a list of neighborhoods that Mayor Bing and his planners intend to keep or to close?
Thank you.

[hogz]

Detroitriseup, are you buying a regular house or foreclosure or what?

[professorscott]

There isn't any list out there, nor will there be any time soon, and there also isn't any formula so I'm going to propose one. Let me know what you think. This is just me making this up as a supposition; it isn't based on any insider knowledge.

1. Find out how many parcels there are on both sides of your block.
2. Count how many standing, occupied homes there are on your block.
3. Divide number 2 by number 1 and express the result as a percentage.

Now, the supposition: if your answer to #3 is 50% to 100%, and if that's true for the blocks nearby as well, your neighborhood is viable. If your answer is 0% to 25%, your neighborhood is probably a goner. Between 25% to 50%, that's borderline.

Again, I am just guessing here. What do you all think? Does that sound like it might be close to what the city government folks are thinking here?

[n7hn]

By the looks of it I think you have given it more thought and have made it much further towards some resolve ....

[laphoque]

Avoid these houses? http://mapdetroit.blogspot.com/2010/...n-prairie.html

[DetroitPlanner]

laphouque, that map only tells the story based upon housing. Granted its a good indicator though things are not always as theyseem forexample, if a home has a freeway to one side and a functioning non residential property on the other it may be logical to keep it. Every situation is unique.

It maybe safe to bet that neighborhoods such as Brightmoor may be gone.

[NorthEndere]

Even if it is Bing's plan to shut down entire neighborhoods [[and I don't think it is), it's not realistically possible, and probably not even desirable. I really think people should be looking at this on a block-by-block basis instead of a neighborhood-to-neighborhood basis, because as you all know, even some of the most empty neighborhoods have highly viable and livable blocks it simply wouldn't make sense to get rid of. Just look at Brightmoor. Even as emptied out as it is, this is still a good 5 square miles of 20,000 folks with relatively wildly different swings in density. No one in the right mind would advocate demolishing the entire relatively dense east half, for instance, or the even denser piece in the extreme southwest part that borders Eliza Howell Park.

Again, we're realistically talking about shutting down blocks, and maybe thousands of blocks, but still just blocks instead of actual square miles of land.

[skyl4rk]

The other question is, what services are going to be "shut down"?

Will water be shut off to properties? or if a main breaks, just shut off at the nearest functioning valve?

Will sewer lines be capped? or just not repaired if broken?

Will police not enter the badlands? or not respond to calls for help?

Will fires be allowed to burn? If water is shut off to the hydrants, will any attempt be made to put out grass fires or structure fires?

Will streets no longer be maintained? Will they be barricaded?

Will electric power be shut off? Will street lighting be shut off?

Will trash pickup not be provided?

My best guess is that city services that have operating costs, like police, fire, trash, and other services that cost money to operate will not be provided. Utilities such as water and sewer will continue to be provided but not repaired in the case of main breaks, when they will be shut off. The neighborhood shutdown policy is a fair warning to property owners that they may be out of services in the future. I doubt that they will throw homeowners out of their houses, and the City cannot afford to buy people out, they can't even afford to demolish all the vacant houses. I also doubt if the City can legally shut off water or other utilities to homes with residents.

The silly thing about the City's vague plan is that it even further depresses property values throughout the city because of the uncertainty. If they are going to shut down services to neighborhoods, they should do it on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis. Hold a public hearing, make a decision, drop some concrete barriers on to the streets to designate the area as abandoned and shut off water valves to the area. It should be more of a block by block shutdown, not a neighborhood shutdown.

[stasu1213]

Bing has not said which areas he is definitely not going to raze. That is the tricky part about his plans. i would not be surprise if those lands are given to the corporations to do with it whatever their hear's desire. We are being told that the land will be used for parks and urban farming. It is not a bad idea but I think it is a smoke screen.

[Carey]

The many excellent questions asked in this thread show the incredible complexity of what Bing is trying to do, or what we think he is trying to do. How can they shut down some blocks and not others? How will that save money in police, fire and DPW resources? On the other hand, shutting down large sections of the city brings its own problems. Can you really say those areas will never see a police car or fire engine? How can you really get people to move out? Bing himself said the city has no money to offer people.

Here is an update on Youngstown's attempts to shrink. Read to the end. It's not very promising. No one has accepted the city's enticements to leave the targeted neighborhoods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/20/us...X7A6n9yhZLGI5g

[EastsideAl]

This map of concentrations of vacant and city-owned properties from the same [[very interesting) site linked by laphoque above may provide some strong clues:
http://mapdetroit.blogspot.com/2010/...ity-owned.html

It certainly looks like large swaths of the east side are doomed - the area north of Gratiot and east of St. Aubin up to the Blvd., the area between Connor and Alter north of Jefferson, the area around the already-emptied St. Cyril area. On the west side, in addition to the aforementioned Brightmoor, it sure likes the area from the Blvd. to Livernois north of Michigan is a likely candidate. North Corktown, although it has a lot of vacant lots, looks reasonably safe.

Unlike some others here, I think the long-range goal is probably something more like what has been done to the area between St. Cyril and Mt. Elliott: buy up the few remaining occupied parcels, tear down all of the structures, close off the streets and close down schools, city services, etc.

This provides large clear areas that the city can shut off and eventually offer for potential redevelopment, either for residential or business/industrial use. They may not be able to do this as quickly as they would like, but by further isolating the few remaining hold-out residents, perhaps cutting off or restricting many services, and encouraging sales to the city of otherwise valueless property, they will try to clear as much as possible.

[Danny]

The Detroit ghettohoods that Mayor Bing want to close in the ones that have fewer homes left and acres of brownfields. The Lower West and East side will be hit first then to some Northeast, East, West and Northwest side. Some streets at the Brightmoor sub-division will be gone. Where the people go? Either the city will put them into to middle class home in a middle class neighborhood, but with a home near its equal size as their old home. Some Detroiters will have to re-locate themselves to other areas. Either way, Detroit city services don't have enough cash to weed and seed brownfields so let nature reclaim those hoods. Maybe Detroit will look like the suburbs or like Pontiac.

[casscorridor]

Hopefully the extremely abandoned sections of the city can be condensed into more viable areas. The large vacant areas being set away for future use, or uses that don't involve any new residential development. New residential development should be reserved for the viable areas of the city. This policy should be extended throughout SE Michigan, so no new subdivisions are constructed. The city needs to look more like a city and less like the suburbs. All new development should follow an urban form [[mixed-used buildings, dense residential structures, buildings facing the street, walkable neighborhoods, diverse transit options, etc). If the incentives are good enough I don't see why people wouldn't want to move to a better area, if that area was a large improvement from what they were moving from. People won't want to move from one run-down neighborhood to another. We need vibrant neighborhoods that people want to live in. This should be the goal of Detroit Works- creating neighborhoods of choice. That means Detroit needs to allow for genuine urban lifestyles that are commonplace in other major cities. The suburban mode might still be what people choose, but Detroit already offers this in wide supply. What is missing is urban neighborhoods. This is a small, but important, part of why Detroit continues to bleed residents and fails to attract newcomers.

[Detroitriseup]

The house i'm looking at to buy is a normal house, but its at a low price.

As far as what detroit needs, i think it has more to do with jobs, and that because of tax breaks and incentives, companies who used to stay put now bounce from city to city, state to state leaving a wake of destruction as they follow the best deals... the eventually come back to the start where now property is worthless and it all begans again. I think the problem with detroit isn't housing, density, crime, living style [[urban vs suburban)... its jobs. If there is no jobs for Detroiters, the ones already living in Detroit, it doesn't matter what the city does to offer incentives for people to move here, it will collapse and fail. No jobs, no means to survive, no Renaissance for Detroit, period, nothing else matters at this point, you have to get jobs so people can feed themselves, afford to stay in a neighborhood rather than being transients, have enough money fix and up keep a house. Its all about Jobs.

[mwilbert]

Its all about Jobs.

Yes and no.

First, you can attract or retain people who don't need jobs or create their own jobs. Those people spend money too.

Second, most companies are established by people who live in the area. If you make the area more attractive to the kind of people who create companies, you increase the likelihood that jobs will be created, and available for local residents.

Third, companies want to be where there is an appropriate workforce. If the area isn't attractive to that workforce, the companies won't be there either. If they are there, they likely hire local people too.

Jobs are very, very important, but jobs are interdependent with the area's quality of life.

[Schoolcraft]

I don't know why Bing put out there that people who don't move would get less than desirable service. You just can't put that out there because nobody knows what that means. Let's just say when all of this happens somebody in one of those "unattended areas" doesn't get an ambulance on time or doesn't get a fire truck on time. The next day you'll have Charlie LeDuff doing a piece on city's evil plans and the city will have lawsuits up the wazoo.

[socks_mahoney]

I've always thought that Woodbridge and North Corktown could be linked up very easily. The corner of MLK, Trumbull and Grand River is a terrible light, and could be a beautiful spot with Scripps Park's wrought iron fencing right there. With the light traffic, a traffic circle would do a lot for the corner, and could anchor the neighborhoods to each other.

[REL]

I am taken aback at the title of this thread. No one is "closing" neighborhoods.

Also, I see people wanting to see the "plan" done and announced, while others foam at the mouth at the though of it being completed [[or even started). The mayor cannot win.