Crazier and crazier-- Congresswoman and others shot

**Mikeg** · January-09-11, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by maxx

How many times did Obama state that? And how long ago? Meanwhile Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, etc. spew/post hatred towards members of the gov. daily.

How do you know what programs the shooter listened to or watched? How do I know whether the shooter read Obama's knife/gun quote in the newspapers? As I implied in my second post immediately above yours, this is all nothing but mindless speculation being put forth for political gain.

After having the chance to read Maxx's post, since Obama didn't say "we bring a gun with an extended magazine", it couldn't possibly be anyone else' sfault but George W. Bush's!

**gazhekwe** · January-09-11, 01:10 PM

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...na-shooting-/1

Dr. Michael Lemole of the University Medical Center in Tucson said Giffords remains in critical condition in the hospital's intensive care unit. She is in a medically induced coma and unable to speak but responds to simple commands.
Surgeons removed part of Giffords' skull to treat a wound, created when a bullet traversed the left hemisphere of her brain -- from the back of her head to the front.
"Brain swelling is the biggest threat right now," he said. Lemole and Dr. Peter Rhee declined to put a timetable to Giffords' recovery. Lemole said similar brain injuries could involve "months to years" for recovery and rehab.

Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Ariz., was shot in the head on Saturday.

CAPTION

By AFP/Getty Images

Rhee, director of the hospital's trauma unit, says Giffords has been able to follow simple commands. "I don't know what her deficits will be in the future. Overall this is about as good as you are going to get.''

**Patrick** · January-09-11, 01:12 PM

I wonder how this will all play out this coming week ahead with the talking heads. What will the Becks, Limbaughs and Stewarts of the media say about what happened? How will they play it out?

**gibran** · January-09-11, 01:36 PM

Let's wait til all the facts are in but while not directly responsible for each others action... Leaders and Politition's words spur people to do things that they would normally dream up on the their own, they may tap into subconscious hate etc.. but remember those who are deflecting the rhetoric of tea party queeen "targets/sight" and her own words as symbols" must realize that if words can inspire to greatness... they can inspire to violence..when paired with negative reinforcement daily... an done just has to turn on media to hear that...

.... if you have disenfranchised people listening to people playing them like fiddles you have the mixture for disasters... I had a Psychology Prof at Wayne State many years ago state that he wasn't a big fan of creating the insanity verdict on all acts of premeditated violence and this was planned.. he wasn't walking innocently by and heard a voice... he has delusional speech yes and should have been in MH clinics...but thats another cuasality of the budgets ... clinics are over worked not funded to met the needs of people with mental health issues.

as far as his reading list look at his whole list it was a mixture and Mien Kempt is not a Marxist agenda... while their are very good members of the right speaking out... to then turn around and say it is a isolates case need to look no further at the extremist rallies... when openly they call for guns at rallies and watering the tree of liberty.. do you not think his anger was fueled by her election against a tea party candidate in a extremely hostile political environment.. sorry folk... time to buck up and take some accountability for all the vile on the left and right ... but this is a man clearly against her politics ...and I wonder what role the older guy had in this... Truth will come out soon...but sad thing is that people are dead and ...

the sadness is the 8 year old aspiring politician born on Sept 11th and taken out by a deranged person in country consumed with polarization... God bless all involved but time to take lethal rhertoric out of our lives...

**jcole** · January-09-11, 01:40 PM

Where were all those gun-totin' Arizonans at when this guy was shooting? I thought that allowing everyone and their brother to carry would stop this kind of thing. You know, protect themselves and others.

Chuck La Chez · January-09-11, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Where were all those gun-totin' Arizonans at when this guy was shooting? I thought that allowing everyone and their brother to carry would stop this kind of thing. You know, protect themselves and others.

It was a Democrat gathering. My guess is that there weren't many, if any, gun toters at the event.

**jcole** · January-09-11, 01:49 PM

It was in front of a supermarket; I don't think they closed it to just Democrats for the day.

**Big Dog** · January-09-11, 01:54 PM

I didn't say I believed it. Like some others [["I expect more blood in the streets, and blame fux news and the like. Just sayin'."), I was just throwing some shit out there and hoping it sticks.

Are you then admitting to being a feces disturber?

**maxx** · January-09-11, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Where were all those gun-totin' Arizonans at when this guy was shooting? I thought that allowing everyone and their brother to carry would stop this kind of thing. You know, protect themselves and others.

With a dozen or so Dirty Harrys in the audience, there could have been a real blood-bath in Tucson.

Mikeg:
I'm just looking at the odds of one statement influencing someone v. an ongoing website and daily propaganda.

gibran: he has delusional speech yes and should have been in MH clinics.

Delusional speech? Now you're getting into the realm of religion.

Chuck La Chez · January-09-11, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

It was in front of a supermarket; I don't think they closed it to just Democrats for the day.

Of course, but when political events contrary to my ideology are thrown here, I avoid them. I think it's safe to assume that most, non-confrontational people feel the same.

**Mikeg** · January-09-11, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Big Dog

I didn't say I believed it. Like some others [["I expect more blood in the streets, and blame fux news and the like. Just sayin'."), I was just throwing some shit out there and hoping it sticks.

Are you then admitting to being a feces disturber?

What, did I forget to add the "Just sayin' " to the end of my post?

**Dent** · January-09-11, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by maxx

Your reductio ad absurdum argument is just that, absurd.

Precisely, my friend! I'm glad I made my point.

**canuck** · January-09-11, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Chuck La Chez

The Declaration of Independence is a document outlining why the colonies were breaking away from the empire. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, found in the Declaration of Independence, were part of communicating the philosophical underpinnings of the righteous intent of the Founders.

In regad to slavery, a few good men did the best they could with a bad set of circumstances. Being the participants of the Conventions doesn't mean that they could force the occupants of five states to conform to their beliefs.

Further, the Declaration of Independence asserted that each person has a responsibility to fight for their freedom. The slaves, as a rule, chose not to. From Nat Turner to Frederick Douglass to John Brown and more, men risked all to light the fire of rebellion and resistance but the slaves were always, for whatever reason, content with their plight.

What could the Founders have done with that state of affairs? It's ridiculous. It was an awful situation with a few good men sharing the center of it and trying to do as good as could be done.

You dont seem to acknowledge that many of the founders were slave owners. The language of the Declaration and the Constitution which nowadays guarantees equal rights has not changed, the subsequent interpretations have. As for rebellion, I understand your position, this is what you stated in another thread:

A foundation of my beliefs is that life is competitive and when you beg others to help you in that competition, you have lost; you are a destroyer of freedom rather than a maintainer of freedom and are worthless to mankind.

**maxx** · January-09-11, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dent

Precisely, my friend! I'm glad I made my point.

The only point you made was that you engage in absurd thinking. lol

**maxx** · January-09-11, 03:00 PM

Chuck: Further, the Declaration of Independence asserted that each person has a responsibility to fight for their freedom. The slaves, as a rule, chose not to. From Nat Turner to Frederick Douglass to John Brown and more, men risked all to light the fire of rebellion and resistance but the slaves were always, for whatever reason, content with their plight.

Content or overwhelmed, depressed, starved and unarmed? If everyone followed Patrick Henry every time they felt their freedom was impaired, we would be in a constant state of war. Many women were not "content" with not having the vote. What good would it have done them to take up arms against the gov. that denied them the vote? Most people, first and foremost, are interested in keeping themselves and their families alive and reasonably at peace, not in starting a war.

**Jimaz** · January-09-11, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

Where were all those gun-totin' Arizonans at when this guy was shooting? I thought that allowing everyone and their brother to carry would stop this kind of thing. You know, protect themselves and others.

Actually, there was an interview of a guy who was armed. He said he was in the Walgreen store nearby when he heard the shots. He just didn't make it to the scene fast enough to get involved.

So yes, there really are a lot of guns in Arizona. Go figure.

**canuck** · January-09-11, 03:20 PM

Well, I think the county sherriff is pretty ashamed of the whole thing. It is telling that the guy who holds this office would come out and say Arizona had become a mecca for bigotryand that he mentioned the talking heads in radio as the pokers/stokers.

If a high level guy says that, it means he has witnessed a number of incidents leading up to this, he has felt the potential dangers of the firebranding that went unchecked. He will also get blasted by the political establishment. Who knows, he might quit, but it is sad to see someone like that quit under undue pressure, if that is the case... I would rather have him meet with leaders and try to find solutions to that problem before it escalates.

Chuck La Chez · January-09-11, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

You dont seem to acknowledge that many of the founders were slave owners.

Originally Posted by Chuck La Chez

My question to you is what were the slave-holding Founders supposed to do besides treat the slaves they held as well as practical?

You chose not to answer the question.

Originally Posted by canuck

The language of the Declaration and the Constitution, which nowadays guarantees equal rights, has not changed but the subsequent interpretations have.

Actually, it was a revision, the 13th Amendment, which began to offer equal rights. The interpretations have always been the same, as far as I know.

As for rebellion, I understand your position, this is what you stated in another thread:

That's true but I don't understand what you're getting at.

Chuck La Chez · January-09-11, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by maxx

Content or overwhelmed, depressed, starved and unarmed? If everyone followed Patrick Henry every time they felt their freedom was impaired, we would be in a constant state of war. Many women were not "content" with not having the vote. What good would it have done them to take up arms against the gov. that denied them the vote? Most people, first and foremost, are interested in keeping themselves and their families alive and reasonably at peace, not in starting a war.

According to Frederick Douglass in his autobiography, "My Bondage and My Freedom", content.

**canuck** · January-09-11, 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=Chuck La Chez;213991]You chose not to answer this question.

Yes I did;

They should have left out the bit about Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness and instead concentrated on a manifesto for unfettered business opportunities???

...in which case they could have remained loyal to the king of England and paid extra tax on the tea they imported, it all comes down to money any old ways...

Chuck La Chez · January-09-11, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Yes I did;

They should have left out the bit about Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness and instead concentrated on a manifesto for unfettered business opportunities???

Then, how could you not remember me acknowledging Founders as slave-holders?

...in which case they could have remained loyal to the king of England...

Then, why not rescind the Civil Rights Act, too?

**Jimaz** · January-09-11, 04:36 PM

Here's another Loughner gem from Live News Wire: Exclusive: Man Who Shot Rep. Gabby Giffords Posted Online Rant

Hello, and welcome my classified leak of information that’s of the United States Military to the student body and you. Firstly, I want you to understand this from the start. Did you know grammar is double blind, listener? Secondly, if you want to understand the start of revelatory thoughts then listen to this video. I’ll look at you mother fuckin Anarchists who have a problem with them illegal illiterate pigs. If you’re a citizen in the United States as of now, then your constitution is the United States. You’re a citizen in the United States as of now. Thus, your constitution is the United States. Laugh. I’ll let you in on their little cruel joke that’s genocidal. They’re argument is appeal to force on their jurisdiction with lack of proof of evidence. Each subject is in question for the location! The police don’t quite get paid correctly with them dirty front runners under section 10? Their country’s alliances are able to make illegal trades under section 10. Eh! I’m a Nihilist, not someone who put who put trust in god! What is section 10 you ask? If you make a purchase then it’s illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. You make a purchase. Therefore, it’s illegal under section 10 and amendment 1 of the United States constitution. We need a drum roll for those front runners in the election; those illegal teachers, pigs, and politicians of yours are under illegal authority of their constitution. Those dirty pigs think they know the damn year. Thirdly, tell them mother fuckers to count from 0 to whenever they feel a threat to stop their count. We can all hope they add new numbers and letters to their count down. Did you run out of breath around the trillions, listener? Well, B.C.E is yet to start for Ad to begin! What does this mean for a citizen in any country? Those illegal military personal are able to sign into a country that they can’t find with an impossible date! How did you trust your child with them fraud teachers and front runners, listener? Did you now know that the teachers, pigs, and front runners are treasonous! You shouldn’t jump to conclusion with your education plan. The constitution as of now, which is in use by the current power pigs, aren’t able to protect the bill of rights! Do you now have enough information to know the two wars are illegal! What is your date of time, listener? Fourthly, those applications that are with background checks break the United States constitution! What’s your riot name? I’ll catch you! Top secret: Why don’t people control the money system? Their Current Currency[[1/1) / Your new infinite currency [[1/~infinte) This is a selcte information of revoluntary thoughts! Section 10 – Powers prohibited of States No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. Each subject is unlocatible!

**oldredfordette** · January-09-11, 05:38 PM

Accepted, Ravine.

**Patrick** · January-09-11, 06:20 PM

The main problem with the media's shiatty coverage of the story is the quality of information and the sheer amount of impatience displayed by bloggers, talking heads and the general public on discussion boards. What we are now witnessing is a form of information-overload. Everyone thinks they have the right answer but everyone ends up being equally wrong and this benefits no one. Patience people...