If Tom Gores buys Pistons next week, will they play in Detroit?

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 01:02 PM

So, looks like Gores might be the top bidder, and given that LBP stated Gores personally informed him that if he buys the team, the Pistons would stay in Auburn Hills, does this mean no new Wing-Pistons stadium downtown? Will the Pistons be forever doomed to a life in OC? Sorry, I'm really not trying to stir the pot, but just thinking that this will really put a damper on the plan to develop large swaths of downtown that had been slated to be home to a new dual-purpose arena, and potentially a large shopping district.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...e-likely-buyer

**esp1986** · January-07-11, 01:12 PM

They will someday... it is entirely possible that Gores and Ilitch collaborate on a new building with a plan to open it in 10 years. PSE has said all along that they planned to replace the Palace by 2020 when it would be 30 years old. I say the chance is about 65/35 that they play downtown again in the next 10-15 years. Gores is not the type to spend his own money on an arena like Davidson would have, and he would never be able to get financing for it. If any arena will be built these days, it will likely be a joint arena and Ilitch would sweeten the deal to be in the city. I just don't see Ilitch getting financing for a new building without luring the Pistons in... this could take years to play out.

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

They will someday... it is entirely possible that Gores and Ilitch collaborate on a new building with a plan to open it in 10 years. PSE has said all along that they planned to replace the Palace by 2020 when it would be 30 years old. I say the chance is about 65/35 that they play downtown again in the next 10-15 years. Gores is not the type to spend his own money on an arena like Davidson would have, and he would never be able to get financing for it. If any arena will be built these days, it will likely be a joint arena and Ilitch would sweeten the deal to be in the city. I just don't see Ilitch getting financing for a new building without luring the Pistons in... this could take years to play out.

That was what I thought as well, but that would mean Illitch has to wait another 10+ years to build a new arena for the Wings, something I doubt will happen. I'm not sure JLA has that much left in her without some seriously expensive upgrades, and Ilitch is not going to dump money into a place he does not own. If Ilitch goes forward and builds a single purpose stadium as planned for the Wings, where does that leave Gores in 10 years? Does he plan to build a new NBA stadium in Detroit, or does he just push the envelope with the life-span of the Palace? Or, does he build an entirely new venue in Aurburn Hills? The stars are not aligning as I had hoped...

**sirrealone** · January-07-11, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

...does he just push the envelope with the life-span of the Palace?

I simply don't buy the fact that the Palace will be ready for the wrecking ball anytime soon. There are other arenas that were built around the same time that are targets for replacement, but those are mostly because the arena was built barebones [[the Palace wasn't), doesn't have many luxury suites [[the Palace does), is not profitable for one reason or another [[the Palace is), can't support other events [[the Palace is still a premier destination for concerts, can support hockey, soccer and other events), has horrible concourse areas [[the Palace is just fine), or is lacking in other amenities [[the Palace, as far as I know, has plenty of bathrooms, dining, and drinking options).

The biggest complaint I have about the Palace is the seats are an ugly color and could be a little more comfortable. Still, replacing 20,000 seats is a lot cheaper than replacing the entire building.

Simply put, I see no reason that Gores or anybody else would be chomping at the bit. As long as he kept investing money in it to keep it fresh, to keep the plumbing, electrical, HVAC and other infrastructure intact, the Palace should easily provide a great place for basketball, concerts, and other events.

As far as what this means to Ilitch, well, that's really none of Gores' concern. The Illitch's are resourceful so I have no doubt that they'll come up with a solution that benefits them and gives them what they want and need to remain competitive in the NHL.

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

I simply don't buy the fact that the Palace will be ready for the wrecking ball anytime soon. There are other arenas that were built around the same time that are targets for replacement, but those are mostly because the arena was built barebones [[the Palace wasn't), doesn't have many luxury suites [[the Palace does), is not profitable for one reason or another [[the Palace is), can't support other events [[the Palace is still a premier destination for concerts, can support hockey, soccer and other events), has horrible concourse areas [[the Palace is just fine), or is lacking in other amenities [[the Palace, as far as I know, has plenty of bathrooms, dining, and drinking options).

The biggest complaint I have about the Palace is the seats are an ugly color and could be a little more comfortable. Still, replacing 20,000 seats is a lot cheaper than replacing the entire building.

Simply put, I see no reason that Gores or anybody else would be chomping at the bit. As long as he kept investing money in it to keep it fresh, to keep the plumbing, electrical, HVAC and other infrastructure intact, the Palace should easily provide a great place for basketball, concerts, and other events.

As far as what this means to Ilitch, well, that's really none of Gores' concern. The Illitch's are resourceful so I have no doubt that they'll come up with a solution that benefits them and gives them what they want and need to remain competitive in the NHL.

I understand what you're saying about the Palace. It certainly isn't outmoded by today's standards. However, you are ignoring the big financial picture. Any new stadium built will likely require taxpayer funding- it's not what people want to hear, but that doesn't make it untrue. Ilitch likely has enough clout to build a new arena for the Wings with or without owning the Pistons, so the question becomes: If Gores buys the team knowing Ilitch is going to suck up whatever taxpayer money there is available for a Wings arena, what is he going to do in 10 years when the Palace needs replacing? Public financing will probably be out of the question, and Gores does not seem like the type of guy who will want to go it alone. There are a number of possibilities in play here, and you can bet Ilitch and Gores are the kind of guys who don't take a breath without thinking about the consequences five, ten, fifteen years down the line.

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 02:16 PM

If the Ilitches are not the successful bidders then it's hard to envision the Pistons moving back to Detroit. If anything I would say it's slightly more likely that the Red Wings leave the city and share an arena on the Palace property, even though that's probably not very favorable amongst the Olympia officials.

**R8RBOB** · January-07-11, 02:22 PM

I would love the Pistons to play in Detroit but I'm one of those folks who long longer cares. If the new owner of the Pistons wish to keep them out in the wilderness then that is his right. Since he from Flint and lives in Beverly Hills...California that is, he have no loyalty towards Detroit so the Pistons will remain in Auburn Hills.

**R8RBOB** · January-07-11, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If the Ilitches are not the successful bidders then it's hard to envision the Pistons moving back to Detroit. If anything I would say it's slightly more likely that the Red Wings leave the city and share an arena on the Palace property, even though that's probably not very favorable amongst the Olympia officials.

The Wings were never going to leave Detroit even temporary to play at the Palace.

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

If the Ilitches are not the successful bidders then it's hard to envision the Pistons moving back to Detroit. If anything I would say it's slightly more likely that the Red Wings leave the city and share an arena on the Palace property, even though that's probably not very favorable amongst the Olympia officials.

That would be a massive regression and a major blow to downtown's comeback. There would be a domino effect of spin-off businesses shuttering, as well as the huge psychological effect it would have on efforts to rebuild the city. I would hope Ilitch would not do something so draconian given all of the money he has invested in Foxtown and Motor City Casino, all of which benefit from the Wings playing downtown.

bartock · January-07-11, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

I understand what you're saying about the Palace. It certainly isn't outmoded by today's standards. However, you are ignoring the big financial picture. Any new stadium built will likely require taxpayer funding- it's not what people want to hear, but that doesn't make it untrue. Ilitch likely has enough clout to build a new arena for the Wings with or without owning the Pistons, so the question becomes: If Gores buys the team knowing Ilitch is going to suck up whatever taxpayer money there is available for a Wings arena, what is he going to do in 10 years when the Palace needs replacing? Public financing will probably be out of the question, and Gores does not seem like the type of guy who will want to go it alone. There are a number of possibilities in play here, and you can bet Ilitch and Gores are the kind of guys who don't take a breath without thinking about the consequences five, ten, fifteen years down the line.

Seems that it might be possible for Ilitch to build his hockey arena now, with a deal in place with Gores to move from Auburn Hills in, say, 2020? The Pistons get 9 more years at the Palace, and the Wings have their new home in 3 years.

I think the Palace will be OK as a sports and entertainment venue in the long run anyway, with or without the Pistons.

**Detroitej72** · January-07-11, 02:38 PM

There was some Internet gossip that Gores wants to move the Pistons to Seattle, which would be a lot closer to his CA home. Supposedly that city is prepared to offer a new stadium, but then the question remains, what happens to the Palace?

**Fnemecek** · January-07-11, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

So, looks like Gores might be the top bidder, and given that LBP stated Gores personally informed him that if he buys the team, the Pistons would stay in Auburn Hills, does this mean no new Wing-Pistons stadium downtown?

That deal is almost certainly dead. A couple of questions, though, do come to mind.

Wasn't there some guy who predicted that LBP would find another buyer for the Pistons? One who would commit to keeping the Pistons in Auburn Hills?

And wasn't that person mocked on this forum for making said prediction?

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

That would be a massive regression and a major blow to downtown's comeback. There would be a domino effect of spin-off businesses shuttering, as well as the huge psychological effect it would have on efforts to rebuild the city. I would hope Ilitch would not do something so draconian given all of the money he has invested in Foxtown and Motor City Casino, all of which benefit from the Wings playing downtown.

These arguments that downtown needs major league sports venues to survive are silly. Downtown Detroit's flaw has never been its lack of stadiums.

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

That deal is almost certainly dead. A couple of questions, though, do come to mind.

Wasn't there some guy who predicted that LBP would find another buyer for the Pistons? One who would commit to keeping the Pistons in Auburn Hills?

And wasn't that person mocked on this forum for making said prediction?

I believe Tom Gores made a play for the Pistons even before Ilitch came public with his aspirations to own them. So this isn't that surprising. It probably would be more surprising for a single person to own three major league sports teams... In the same market.

That said, it's still not 100% that the Pistons will remain in Auburn Hills. I could envision some plausible scenarios [[but unlikely, I admit) that would bring them back to Detroit even if Ilitch isn't the owner.

**401don** · January-07-11, 02:53 PM

The Palace is still a state-of-the-art facility and not lacking in anything. Picking up the Palace, an NBA franchise and very profitable DTE venue for under 400 million is a great deal for Gores.
Ilitch is going to have to be creative and prove to the banks that he can create additional revenues for a new arena besides the Wings. This may mean a secondary tennant such as a Junior franchise, maybe making a contract similar to Cobo whereby large conventions will utilize the new arena space for speeches or somehow breaking ground by adding retail, condos, interactive entertainment, etc. to the arena. The Air Canada Centre in Toronto and several other new arenas have developed the surrounding acreage with these types of deals. Maybe just add slot machines?

**esp1986** · January-07-11, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

The Wings were never going to leave Detroit even temporary to play at the Palace.

I really hope this is the case, but I am holding my breath... I haven't been to a Piston's game since the title game in '03.

If the Red Wings move to the Palace, even temporarily, I will not attend any games until they return to the city. I used to live west of town, now I live south, and it is a royal pain in the ass to get to the Palace unless you live north of 696... a typical game essentially takes 8 hours once driving, waiting in traffic, parking walking the half mile to the stadium, the game, and doing it all over again. It is just rediculous. A typical Red Wings, Tigers or Lions game is 5 hours, unless the bars are calling my name.

I am a lifelong and diehard Red Wings fan, and I'm praying they don't move way the hell up to the middle of nowhere.

**esp1986** · January-07-11, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

The Palace is still a state-of-the-art facility and not lacking in anything. Picking up the Palace, an NBA franchise and very profitable DTE venue for under 400 million is a great deal for Gores.
Ilitch is going to have to be creative and prove to the banks that he can create additional revenues for a new arena besides the Wings. This may mean a secondary tennant such as a Junior franchise, maybe making a contract similar to Cobo whereby large conventions will utilize the new arena space for speeches or somehow breaking ground by adding retail, condos, interactive entertainment, etc. to the arena. The Air Canada Centre in Toronto and several other new arenas have developed the surrounding acreage with these types of deals. Maybe just add slot machines?

If the rumors in lower midtown are true, and Ilitch owns most of the property that has been the subject of mystery deals, then the Hotel Eddystone and the old Harbor Light Center could end up being condos as part of an arena development... Wishful thinking, I know.

**kraig** · January-07-11, 03:29 PM

In just making a public attempt at acquiring the Pistons, Illitch garnered enough good will from the voters to help fund a hockey arena. At his age, he's trying to get that done sooner than later.

**Schoolcraft** · January-07-11, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by esp1986

I really hope this is the case, but I am holding my breath... I haven't been to a Piston's game since the title game in '03.

If the Red Wings move to the Palace, even temporarily, I will not attend any games until they return to the city. I used to live west of town, now I live south, and it is a royal pain in the ass to get to the Palace unless you live north of 696... a typical game essentially takes 8 hours once driving, waiting in traffic, parking walking the half mile to the stadium, the game, and doing it all over again. It is just rediculous. A typical Red Wings, Tigers or Lions game is 5 hours, unless the bars are calling my name.

I am a lifelong and diehard Red Wings fan, and I'm praying they don't move way the hell up to the middle of nowhere.

Honestly, this is the last thing you should be worried about... Illitch is based downtown and that's exactly where he's going to stay... Hopefully he can maybe work a deal out with Gores for the joint arena downtown if Gores gets the team. This has me wondering now though, if all offers are below 400 million, which is what Davidson seems to want, how much more is Gores offering than Illitch?

**R8RBOB** · January-07-11, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

The Palace is still a state-of-the-art facility

For the love of God, why do people insist that the Palace is "state-of-the-art?" This is bullshit because the Palace is 22 years old. Yes, they added new toys but it is still 22 years old. The Amway Center in Orlando can be called state of the art because it just opened. New Meadowlands Stadium can be called state of the art because it opened last year. The Palace of Auburn Hills cannot because it is old. You can call it modern but not state of the art.

Besides, if it was so state of the art then why are those chairs tight as hell to sit in? LOL

**BrushStart** · January-07-11, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

These arguments that downtown needs major league sports venues to survive are silly. Downtown Detroit's flaw has never been its lack of stadiums.

Downtown does not need stadiums to survive, but taking the Wings from downtown would be catastrophic at this point in time. Games bring thousands downtown every week. Many businesses exist in great part due to game traffic. Games also keep the city relevant. It would be demoralizing to lose the Red Wings. What the hell would become of Hockeytown Cafe...?

**DLife** · January-07-11, 04:31 PM

I wonder if Illitch will look to buy Joe Louis from the city and renovate. A new stadium is out of the question if it's just for hockey.

**Gistok** · January-07-11, 04:49 PM

OK.... if someone else buys the Pistons/Palace, et al....

Why on earth would Mike Ilitch want to move out to the distant Palace for a few year [[while a new arena were being built downtown), if he doesn't own the Palace?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!!

If he does build anew downtown... then he'll just stay at the Joe until it is done, where he's already getting the ticket fees and concessions. Why would he want to share that with a new Palace owner, when he can retain all the profits alone from the Joe??

As for a rebuild of the Joe... I highly doubt it... no room for any JLA expansion... and it will hinder the possibility for future Cobo Expansion.

**iheartthed** · January-07-11, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

OK.... if someone else buys the Pistons/Palace, et al....

Why on earth would Mike Ilitch want to move out to the distant Palace for a few year [[while a new arena were being built downtown), if he doesn't own the Palace?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever!!

If he does build anew downtown... then he'll just stay at the Joe until it is done, where he's already getting the ticket fees and concessions. Why would he want to share that with a new Palace owner, when he can retain all the profits alone from the Joe??

As for a rebuild of the Joe... I highly doubt it... no room for any JLA expansion... and it will hinder the possibility for future Cobo Expansion.

Without the Pistons under the same roof as the Wings it will be extremely hard for him to secure private financing to build the stadium. The Ilitches will need the private financing even if they were to get partial public financing, but in this economic climate it's a pipe dream to think that they would be able to secure public financing. Then there are the regional economic indicators: how does he convince a private financier to contribute funds to building a new arena in a region that is posting the steepest income drops in America? How do you finance a major league arena in the only American state to have contracted in population over the past decade? Securing the financing under those conditions would probably be enough of a stretch with the promise of revenue streams from two different professional sports organizations, let alone just one.

So with all of this in mind... I find it hard to envision a new Red Wings arena that is not shared with the Pistons. If it does happen any time soon, it will be financed significantly by the Ilitches themselves.

**schulzte** · January-07-11, 06:10 PM

This is not BS. The Palace was 15 years ahead of its time in terms of luxury amenities and had been added on to twice since it opened. The Palace can generate as much revenue as any arena in the NBA, which is what "state of the art" really means to an owner. That the seats in the 40th row are 2 inches narrower than they would be in a new building is rather inconsequential. The main reason so many arenas from the '70s and '80s were torn down so early is because they lacked luxury suites and club seating, its not the the structures themselves were obsolete or failing necessarily. Still today the Palace has more luxury suites [[193) than any other NBA or NHL arena in North America. Now that nearly every NBA team has their jewel box of an arena, they are not going to be replaced every thirty years anymore, including the Palace. Call me crazy, but I think the Palace will still be standing for another thirty years.

That doesn't mean that there won't be a new arena downtown. It just may not be as big and flashy as some of those built for both NHL and NBA teams together. There is no rule that says an arena has to cost $500 million. Oklahoma City built a 19,000 seat arena downtown for $90 million ten years ago, and then spent $100 million adding on and upgrading when the Supersonics moved there. I'm not saying you can build as cheaply in Detroit as in Oklahoma City, but you get the idea.

I think the Wings can go out on their own and build an arena if they can keep costs under control and avoid a huge annual debt service. Remember, the Wings aren't exactly losing money at the Joe, they just need to increase revenue enough with enhanced seating and new events in order to afford to pay for the new building. They will likely sell naming rights and get a small portion paid for by local government to assist in the financing package. A new downtown arena would certainly be able to outcompete the Palace for many concerts and sporting events due to the hotel situation being so much better. I could see the NCAAs hosting basketball tournament games and the Frozen Four downtown regularly with a new arena in place.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

For the love of God, why do people insist that the Palace is "state-of-the-art?" This is bullshit because the Palace is 22 years old. Yes, they added new toys but it is still 22 years old. The Amway Center in Orlando can be called state of the art because it just opened. New Meadowlands Stadium can be called state of the art because it opened last year. The Palace of Auburn Hills cannot because it is old. You can call it modern but not state of the art.

Besides, if it was so state of the art then why are those chairs tight as hell to sit in? LOL