Why is it a recession rather than the second Great Depression?

[exdetroiter]

In reviewing history, the current economic state of affairs and actions as a result of it aren't much different than the Great Depression, so why isn't it being called what it really is?

[Flanders]

No sepia photos of thin, malnourished and gritty-looking families living in darkened one room shacks or flats with no running water or electricity, wearing patched and dirty used clothes, and the faded B&W newsreels and photos of unemployed crowds of men in public wearing dusty hats and grimy suits, as well as boots or shoes with holes in the soles, some standing nearby a newsstand with Depression era headlines on the front pages of the newspapers.

Just like the federal government did not acknowledge that the US was in a recession for a year after it began, the same will be true for a depression, it likely won't be called one until long after the economy improves...or if it gets unavoidably noticeable and significantly worse, ie..riots and disorderly chaos ensues in large and medium sized cities.

The old saying: If your neighbors are out of a job, it is a recession, but if you are as well, then it is a depression.

[Big Dog]

No soup or bread lines.............yet.

[Bobl]

Recession is reading about the decline in economic activity, and worrying about it.
Severe recession is losing one's job and dealing with overdue bills due to the decline in economic activity.
Depression is wondering where your next meal and shelter will come from.

Unsophisticated and anecdotal, but arguably true!

[Lorax]

The reason is the conservative co-opted media, all of which is owned or managed by right wing conservative interests. They certainly aren't going to point the finger of blame on themselves.

Rupert Murdoch's Newscorp is a fascist organization, and those who work for Fox are taking their talking points from an Austrailian fascist.

The safety net of what conservatives deride as "socialist systems" like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are in place now, and were a direct result of the Great Depression.

Goes to prove that socialism when handled properly, can work well. Can anyone imagine the anarchy that would take place if we didn't have the social safety nets in place, as underfunded as they are, even now?

What's even scarier is what the nation's domestic policy would look like if John McShame and Saracuda were in the White House.

[ccbatson]

The definition of recession is pretty cut and dry...negative growth of GDP for at least 2 quarters. Depression is less well defined. Most agree that a very deep and very prolonged recession is a depression. Some say that a decline of GDP over 10% qualifies.

[Lorax]

All I need to see are the rows of homeless people standing under overpasses here in Miami, and the tent cities, now know as Bushievilles popping up all over California and the southwest.

Pick nits if you like, it's a depression, and a deeping one at that. Thanks to Bush Cheney- now that's not change we can believe in!

[Gannon]

Just wait until our new-and-improved Dustbowl hits...we're a season or two away from those reports.


You will begin to hate that 'Perfect Storm' analogy...

[firstandten]

Depression - possibly. Great Depression - nowhere close [[yet).

I'll just settle for the Republican Depression

[Detroitej72]

In reviewing history, the current economic state of affairs and actions as a result of it aren't much different than the Great Depression, so why isn't it being called what it really is?

Because the Republican's have better spin doctors now than during the last Great Republican Depression.

[Jimaz]

This is the type of subject that needs to be discussed only in quantitative terms. Using terms like "recession" and "depression" only leads to fruitless semantic disputes. Fruitlessness is exactly what we don't need right now.

[douglasm]

That's a good question. One of the problems with an answer is that there is no sure definition of a recession in the same way economically a recession is defined by 2 or more quarters of declining Gross Domestic Product.

One rule of thumb that is used to define a depression is a downturn in the GDP by 10% or more. Using that rule, The Gread Depression could be divided into two parts, one from August 1929 through March of 1933, a small recovery, then another depression from May 1937 through June of 1938. Using this formula, the worst recession since WW II was from November 1973 through March 1975, when GDP fell about 5%. We're not closs to depression levels......

.....yet.

[ccbatson]

It is, and will be a socialist depression. A big difference between this one and the great depression, is that this time, with a Marxist regime in power, they want it too happen. Geitner was recently caugh t in an interview describing the merits of stagnation and wanting to avoid the next "boom"...Ahem, that next "boom" is the recovery we desperately need.

[oladub]

Regional differences will determine 'recession vs. depression' for many.

I just came across some California statistics. Most of the real estate markets are down 20-25% over the last year in California. Sales taxes were lower [[-50.9%) than last April, and personal income taxes were down [[-43.6%) and the State of California is already deeply in debt with some of the highest taxes in the country. These are depression level numbers. Meanwhile, housing prices are up in S. Carolina's urban areas and the farm based economies of the Dakotas are holding their own.

Maybe the sequel to the Grapes of Wrath will be about a family of California yuppies who move to Bismarck in search of and cheap housing and honest work regulating something but wind up going door to door selling latte machines.

[reddog289]

The media says so .

[GOAT]

To all of the shit for brains who think the recession vs depression is a conservative conspiracy or think the gloom we have today is comparible. Try reading a fucking book or the statistics [[some have posted a few above) and tell me this is even close?
We aren't even close the unemployment suffered in the early 80s recession. And that is the problem with the internet generation [[or Generation Y or whatever the fuck someone wants to call them). They haven't suffered shit and believe they are entitled to anything and everything because they are alive.

And sure as shit the media whores themselves are as much to blame by stating this is close to the depression. They love nothing more than doom and gloom to sell their shill to the masses because the masses don't educat themselves. Swine flu, oops, I mean H1N1 flu is another clasic example.

When people fall down because they are too weak to stand or people make ketchup [[catsup for most) soup to feed themselves then we can compare this recession to the economic depression decade of 1929-1939; otherwise known as the lost decade.

[Lorax]

It is, and will be a socialist depression. A big difference between this one and the great depression, is that this time, with a Marxist regime in power, they want it too happen. Geitner was recently caugh t in an interview describing the merits of stagnation and wanting to avoid the next "boom"...Ahem, that next "boom" is the recovery we desperately need.

Yet more tripe from the Repugnican Taliban.

Maybe your memory is short, rather like your stature, and you forgot who got us into this mess in the first place. George Tush is the one who sent his former Goldman Sachs CEO Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson to congress and fearmonger them into giving the banks 750 billion bucks, which amounted to the largest bank heist in American history.

And Goldman Sachs got the lion's share of the bailout money, gee, go figure.

Before raiding the treasury, he said to congress, and I quote: " If we don't receive these funds, and quickly, there may be anarchy in the streets."

You'd think congress would have learned about fearmongering by now, so with a stroke of the pen, the banks got our money, and then reufsed to open credit markets, which is true to this day. They are thieves in the worst sense of the word.

And don't try and tell me it was a democratically led congress which approved this, since the slim majority the democrats had at the time still required repugnicans to step over the aisle to get a 60 vote majority to knock this down, and naturally nearly all repugnicans voted for it.

The new super-majority democratic congress didn't get seated, as we know until January 09.

[jiminnm]

You're so right Goat. Recent studies have shown a phenomenon wherein people believe thet the best or worst occurences are occuring today. My opinion is that it's a stunning ignorance of history and/or a false belief of one's self-importance.

I strongly urge anyone who thinks this is a depression to go and talk about a real depression with someone who lived through it.

[Lorax]

I'd love to know where you guys are living, but where I live, the effects of this "economic downturn" are more than obvious.

Lines a mile long in some places when 4 or 5 job openings come available at a smaller business.

Charities stretched to the breaking point with numbers of needy sometimes 10 fold what they were before this period.

Petty crime up, especially carjackings, retail theft, gas theft, etc.

Certainly, thanks to FDR and the safety net we have now, as opposed to the 30's, things appear better now, but the dirty little secret is that these agencies are so underfunded based on the cost of living index of today, add to that the bureaucratic red tape set up by the Tush administration, plus donations to charities are at abysmal levels- so the recipe is only one or two ingredients away from disaster, especially here in Miami.

[Lorax]

Agreed.

However, I would submit that it's a shame that American industry couldn't be coerced into partnering with the government today in an effort to produce the materiel to fight a another war, since our corporate culture is worshipped by so many, and viciously protects it's autonomy.

Back in the day, corporations and their owners/managers were perhaps more patriotic.

There is evidence that the Repugnicans did conspire to defraud the government, and suck dry the treasury, as they did. We know of the no-bid contracts to Halliburton, KBR, among other favorites of Cheney's who benefitted from closed bidding, which in WWII was a prosecutable offense.

It goes back to the public humiliation of Prescott Bush, Georgies grandfather, who was indicted for war profiteering by Harry Truman, a democrat.

Guess payback's a bitch.

[oladub]

Lomax post #20, "And don't try and tell me it was a democratically led congress which approved this, since the slim majority the democrats had at the time still required repugnicans to step over the aisle to get a 60 vote majority to knock this down, and naturally nearly all repugnicans voted for it."

As did the overwhelming number of Democrats. You should probably also do a little research into the ties between the Obama administration and Goldman-Sachs.

Slimshady is correct in saying this certainly not all Obama's fault but I would run the blame back as far as Carter, including all administrations since, and add Woodrow Wilson as a culprit.

[otter]

This is one opinion on the question:

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...at-depression/

O.

[Ray1936]

If you are affected by the current economic situation, it's a depression.

If you are not affected, it's a recession.

[ccbatson]

Did I say it was Obama? Is he the only socialist liberal Democrat? No for both...however, as described many many times, socialized housing under Carter via the CRA, and grown under the likes of CLinton, Dodd, Shumer, and Frank via the fencing operations known as Freddie and Fannie [[all again in the name of "affordable housing...AKA socialized housing...AKA Marxist ideologies) brought us the bubble that burst and sent us into this mess. Worse still...now, Obama, as per his COS is not allowing the opportunity presented by a crisis go to waste and is accelerating the process.

[Detroitej72]

...however, as described many many times, socialized housing under Carter via the CRA, and grown under the likes of Clinton, Dodd, Shumer, and Frank via the fencing operations known as Freddie and Fannie [[all again in the name of "affordable housing...AKA socialized housing...AKA Marxist ideologies) brought us the bubble that burst and sent us into this mess.

Do you think if you keep repeating the same myths they will suddenly become fact? I know thats what the neo-con talking heads tell you, but try using a little common sense here.

As has been stated by every noted economist, Fannie and Freddy were but 10% of the equation. Mortgage companies such as Country Wide, and banks like Bear Sterns were responsible because they gave bad loans to people who couldn't afford them. Then the bundled them together with other bad loans and resold them to other companies.

This scam worked for quite some time because of the artificial housing bubble. But, as everyone knew, the music would eventually stop, and someone would be left with the hot potato. I've even heard some of the mortgage officers on NPR saying they knew the good times wouldn't last, but they hoped they'd be able to unload their toxic assets before the collapse.

Now, all the idiots on the right are screaming from the rooftops that its all the fault of liberals and Freddy and Franny which is just so much bullshit. They are trying to create a class warfare with their banter.

By the way, Freddy and Fannie are public companies, not a government entity, contrary to what the fools on the right tell you.