Eminent Domain

**Richard** · December-31-10, 07:34 PM

Hello I am a new-be here after following this forums for a couple of years and would like to wish everybody a safe and happy new years.

My question is would you support the use of eminent domain on a piece of property ,this is a very large piece of commercial property that has been shut for many years and its reuse would provide good paying jobs in the manufacturing and technical community.

From reading comments over time when this property has been brought up I know that the majority would support it but the question is would you help support it vocally? as in letters to the mayor or as citizens of Detroit demand it ?

Sorry to be kind vague on the actual property itself but at this time it is in the planning stage, but it is a well discussed piece of history.

Thanks

**Novine** · December-31-10, 08:06 PM

Eminent domain in Michigan has become more difficult than it used to be thanks to a constitutional amendment passed in 2006. Using it to acquire a property that would then be turned over to another private user for redevelopment would likely face a legal challenge. If this property is located in Detroit, where's the city going to get the funds to pay for the cost to acquire the property through eminent domain?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v....ondon#Michigan

**skyl4rk** · January-01-11, 11:32 AM

No, eminent domain should only be used for public infrastructure projects.

**professorscott** · January-01-11, 11:31 PM

Eminent domain is just basically buying property from someone who would rather not sell. If this property is as you describe it, why not just find the owner and make an offer?

**Richard** · January-02-11, 01:51 AM

professorscott Eminent domain is just basically buying property from someone who would rather not sell. If this property is as you describe it, why not just find the owner and make an offer?

The owners have not stepped forward and the city has been unable to find out who actually owns the property 100%

Sorry I missed the Quote button.

**REL** · January-02-11, 11:19 AM

So you want the train station, huh?

**Richard** · January-02-11, 01:29 PM

Nope something that has a bit more of a challenge ,train station would be nice but the goal would be providing a mixture of jobs across the the board ie more towards manufacturing,RD,etc . IMHO the train station would be more service related jobs.

But ownership of that one is clearly known.

**oladub** · January-02-11, 01:50 PM

I agree. Offers can be made but governments shouldn't be to lining it's contributors' pockets.

Kelo vs. New London was a case that got a lot of attention. Phizer got the City of New London to condemn a working class neighborhood so a shopping center could be built there. The idea was that this benefitted the public because more tax revenue could be raise from the shopping center. The Supreme Court went along with this.

Update: the houses were torn down. The owners were paid the 'fair market value' rather than allowing the condemned owners to be paid for what their property's potential value was to developers. Phizer then changed it's mind and the land still sits empty. Neither Phizer, nor the City of New London were sued. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London

I heard of one other case since Kelo in which a developer told a property owner that he would sue if the property owner did not sell at the developer's offered price. This reminds me of an old movie The Warlord in which "Droit de seigneur" or lord's right, often used synonymously with jus primae noctis or simply primae noctis and its translation right of the first night, is a term now popularly used to describe an alleged legal right allowing the lord of an estate to take the virginity of his serfs' maiden daughters. The update, of course, gives our privileged ones the right to condemn working Americans' property, at their whim, for their own profit.

**Richard** · January-02-11, 02:19 PM

The historic value of this property is part of its charm,the push is to demo it as of now my goal would be to save ,restore and have a viable use that benefits the community with out tearing it down.

To demo it would not only put the taxpayers on the hook and create a large brown site that would not be rebuilt in our lifetime anyways,not to even mention destroying not only a part of Detroit history but this countries history.

So if a plan can be presented that would not only preserve the property but also provide the much needed decent paying jobs in the process. Yes in the end it is about making a profit for a private corporation but in the end it is more about preserving and reutilization and if that can be achieved then it is a win for all .

It would be so much easier if the owners would just step forward and say I want X amount of dollars for said property but as reported speculators[[still no proof) who at this point are clearly not going to do this because of liabilities,well putting the resident taxpayers of Detroit and the rest of the country on the hook for $20 mil for the demo is a shame.

Me personally I am about preserving ,restoring and finding a viable productive use verses demolition. This is an existing commercial property .

**Novine** · January-02-11, 02:27 PM

You should be consulting a legal expert on these topics if you want anything more than armchair analysis. But the only way that the courts are going to allow the city to use Eminent Domain to take ownership of the property is if the property is being put to a public use. The constitutional amendment that was adopted in 2006 prohibits the city or state from taking the property for the purpose of transferring it to a private corporation as was allowed in Kelo. It's possible that a public-private partnership would pass legal review. But since 2006, at least in Michigan, it's gotten a lot harder to take private property unless there's a clear public use for doing so. What you've outlined so far doesn't sound like it would meet that standard.

**Richard** · January-02-11, 02:57 PM

So speaking hypothetical if for instance a state university had a RD research department in said property and the results from that research were then manufactured and applied in the real world as is practiced already that would then become a public and private venture ?

Armchair analysis is okay because it offers more viewpoints and insight or direction,kinda like a virtual think tank ,and it also shows that people are willing to get involved in what is happening in their community by taking the time to post their thoughts. which in itself says a lot.

**REL** · January-02-11, 05:50 PM

Oh, so you want the Packard Plant?

**n7hn** · January-02-11, 05:58 PM

I cant see any reason for eminent domain with so much available land in the city. If you are concerned about the fate of the property then rally a group to preserve it and dont threaten me with Jobs. Thats been pulled before. = ) The Demolition of the FOX was delayed years by a loyal group of supporters.

One step at a time, Plus people are less likely to support a "Save It FOR ME and MY USE!" kind of campaign anyway.

**Richard** · January-02-11, 07:19 PM

I respect your views n7hn lots of cities have been down that road and it is a valid point.

The main question is why even waste time rallying for support without a valid plan in place?
I am a historic preservation fanatic and I could cry help me save this property until I am blue in the face,but the reality is who is going to pay for it ?

Bottom line is on its currant path it will end up getting demolished then we as a country as a whole will pay for it with no say so or no choice.

I am not from the its all about me generation and I will not lie it is about generating profits but in the meantime what would be so wrong in providing jobs along the way.

Yes there is plenty of land to chose from and plenty of cities to also choose from but as REL puts it ,it is the building and the city and what it stands for that draws my attention.

Have I ever been to Detroit , No but a few years back I would have never wanted to step foot in Detroit but after doing a two year study on other major cities I realized that there is only one difference in Detroit that no other city can even come close to and that would be the contribution she has made to the rest of the world in peace and in war time and that says alot.

Call me a sucker for history but as they say our history is what makes us,does Detroit have problems of course as does any other city ,I currently reside in a regen area as I have done from city to city all my life and I get robbed,car broken into etc. so how can I stereotype another city for its faults. Detroit gets so much bad press why? It has the same problems as major cities across the globe. Maybe it is because ask anybody in the world and they know where Detroit is because it is such a common recognized city it is fodder for the news media?

So yea it is a bigger picture then just a another rundown factory. Its about taking a stand and the building is the stage but when it is all done and said for it still has to be paid for otherwise it is all just words.

**n7hn** · January-02-11, 07:55 PM

Im just saying, detroit has had a lot of false promises, dont [[appear to) be another one. If you have not been to detroit then that would be the first step before anyone takes you seriously. I agree a plan needs to be presented , so does every penny of funding, studies, business plan , projections, all hard to take seriously from someone who has not been in the city.

Im not being argumentative , just a bit of insight to they way the city see's things. Public support isnt really a concern to those who decide. Dont look at this forum to pave your way. If this forum decided stuff Tiger stadium would still be there and every vacant property would have a use.

Step one. Go to Detroit, drop some cash,,,,, then lets talk, tee hee

**Richard** · January-02-11, 09:11 PM

If you have not been to detroit then that would be the first step before anyone takes you seriously.

I heard those same exact words in 2005 except the city was Philadelphia and it was a realtor saying them [[meaning no disrespect to you),2 days later she lost the listing and I bought the property directly from the owner everything was handled via Fed-Ex and the internet.900 miles away.

No reason to drop any money yet or even look at the building as it has been well documented in pictures and on countless you tube videos,a shell of steel reinforced concrete. The structure is there the rest is remediating and build out costly ? yes but built out as the intended use,not even comparable to the estimated costs of demolition or even building ground up replacement 1/3 the size.

I do not think you are being argumentative at all,besides if I visited right now I probably would not want to leave,like you posted earlier one step at a time. Good advice.