Do we still call this an American car?

[rid0617]

Washington -- General Motors Corp. will shift more production of vehicles bound for the U.S. market to China, Mexico, South Korea and Japan, but will keep total imports at roughly one-third of all sales here.

In a confidential 12-page presentation to members of Congress, obtained by The Detroit News on Friday, GM said it will boost U.S. sales of vehicles built in those four countries by 98 percent -- or about 365,000 vehicles -- while shrinking production in Canada, Australia and European countries by about 130,000 vehicles.

GM also disclosed it will start importing vehicles made in China in 2011, reaching 51,546 vehicles in 2014. Imports from South Korea to the United States will jump from 36,967 vehicles in 2010 to 157,126 in 2014.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090509/....seas-production

I really don't see where billions in bailouts have protected any Detroit jobs besides the executives. If we can't trust the Chinese to make dog food and not screw it up how can we trust them to build a car?

[1KielsonDrive]

Thank you rid0617. Well stated. A very important point. I've been asking the question for a long time: what exactly constitutes a US and/or a foreign made car? What will buying a car from a US company, that buys that car from a foreign country, do to preserve and expand US jobs?

[East Detroit]

1. Where the profits go
2. Where the vehicle was engineered
3. Where the vehicle was built

Ford Focus, Ford Mustang, Ford F-150 [[Dearborn version):

Metro Detroit, Metro Detroit, Metro Detroit.

[reddog289]

I am thinking that IF I bought a GM product assembled in China vs a Toyota built in Kentucky which would be more un patriotic?. My 2 Dads were union men, My father was UAW. I myself belong to a union. But if I were to have to chose between a Chevy built in China with Chinese parts vs a Toyota Tundra made in the USA, THAT Chevy can keep its ass in Long Beach and rot in the sea salt.

[reddog289]

Oh yeah Canadian built vehicles would be exempt from this. I got relatives over the bridge. And ISN'T funny how the Camaro, Challenger are built over there ? . I for the life of me would not want to pick between the 3 new pony cars out there. Whats next TATA NANOS with Chevy BOWTIES THEM?

[Blarf]

Yet another reason why I laugh at those idiots who have those "Out of the Job Yet? Keep buying foreign" bumper stickers on their cars.

I wonder how many foreign made products these same people buy or own. Cell phones, HD Tvs, computer parts and accessories, DVD players, car stereos.. etc., Keep buying foreign!

[CountrySquire]

I WILL NOT buy any vehicle not assembled here. As far as where the profits go, take for example the gorgeous new 2009 Nissan Altima 2 door. Assembled in Smyrna GA, engineered right here in Farmington Hills MI with support from other suppliers also here in the Detroit area, including my company. If GM insists on going through with this I will gladly send Fritz Henderson a picture of me holding up a set of car keys in front of my new Altima at the Dealership the day I take delivery of it with a caption that reads, 'Never buying your products again and I have owned five of them!'. If that where to happen, it would be the first time in my car buying life which goes back to 1986 I have ever bought a vehicle not made buy the domestic [[4).

[rajdet]

I don't get it, and neither does GM. The next time they step up to ask the American taxpayers to dole out a few more billion to bail their sorry asses out, they should be required to ask the governments of China, Mexico, South Korea and Japan for help.

[Rocko]

Blarf, I agree with you over other high ticket items, such as stereos, TVs, etc, but really, we no longer have a choice. How many TV's are produced in the United States anymore? And if they are produced here, how many foreign components are in them?

[313WX]

Blarf, I agree with you over other high ticket items, such as stereos, TVs, etc, but really, we no longer have a choice. How many TV's are produced in the United States anymore? And if they are produced here, how many foreign components are in them?

The only American-based TV company left is CurtisMathes. Though I'm not sure if the TVs are still produced in America.


They sell them at Target and Meijer.

[Baselinepunk]

My car [[Saturn) is an "American" car ... it has Opel steering components and I believe the majority of it is foreign. It's a real piece of crap. I honestly think that my wife's car [[Vibe) is the best Toyota GM makes; outstanding car. Typical GM, they are getting rid of the Vibe. I used to own a Cavalier; the year right before they terminated the product. My uncle, who worked for GM, contextualizes it perfectly: Once GM gets a car "right", they discontinue it.

The GM implosion has been on the horizon for a while now. Some many call it ironic; I call it poetic because the whole "going into China to exploit a new market" of the 90's set GM up for failure. The Chinese stole Westernized production technology, reversed engineered everything, wouldn't honor copyright and basically got our country to facilitate a economic jump from Industrial straight to Information. Unfortunately, this "partnership" allowed for China to pound and own us economically now. Also, this "partnership" has weakened us militarily because GM [[and the other American auto companies) basically showed China how to set up a Westernized style of military production [[read: Industrial Military Complex). Put simply, in trying to exploit their economic market, China has [[smartly) been able to enjoy an enormous amount of relatively quick success by exploiting our country. And, at any time, they could cripple us buy calling in their loans; I believe they "own" 40% of our debt. Think if they demanded payment for just 5%?

[PurpleHeart]

First let me say that I am a GM salary employee, retired from the US Marine Corps, so my issue may be biased many ways but the thread remains that I am 100% patriotic. However I am not a UAW member.

In one of the threads above I read where one is trying to compare a Toyota tundra to a what? Let's keep apples to apples here?

I'll put a Chevy Silverado up against a Toyota Tundra any day! Made in the USA [[in fact assembled in Pontiac) has better quality, fuel efficiency, standard features for the money, towing capacity, in every category the Silverado exceeds the Tundra hands down!

Now lets talk about the other foreign transplants; Honda, Toyota, Fuji Heavy Industries [[combo of everything from Mitsubishi to Suzuki,) and the latest entries from Korea [[KIA, Hyundai, et al.)

Pick one, any one, I'll give you an "American Car" in the same class that either equals or out performs anything on the list, built here in the USA with our parts and manpower. The added bonus is that the profits from that sale [[you buying it brand new) goes to an "American Car" company.

An American Car is NOT A TRANSPLANT, you can fool yourself all day long or might be one of those people who just like to buy foreign because you think that foreigners make better stuff. But the next time you pull out from that parking lot in your transplant don't fool yourself, your money is going overseas and is included in our trade unbalance which will turn around and bite each and every one of us in a place where the sun don't shine. Hence; Have you lost your job yet? Keep buying foreign?

I can go on and on but don't want to sound like a rant, however in closing I would like to mention [[as was brought up from another- above) in regards to the Industrial Military Complex [[baselinepunk) are you going to depend on "them" [[these transplants) to produce the things you need to defend this country in a time of war? Especially when it might be that very country who is the enemy?

Oh, I'm out of line here?????

Toyota- who was Toyoda, who produced the very guns-swords-trucks and other items that fueled Japan during WW2- cite: Toyoda Automatic Loom Co [[referred to as the sewing machine company who builds cars by my Dad)

Mitsubishi- the famous maker of the Japanese Zero

The endless list of German car makers ...

Did the car you own contribute to the death of Americans?

None of mine has

[Trumpeteer]

Yet another reason why I laugh at those idiots who have those "Out of the Job Yet? Keep buying foreign" bumper stickers on their cars.

I wonder how many foreign made products these same people buy or own. Cell phones, HD Tvs, computer parts and accessories, DVD players, car stereos.. etc., Keep buying foreign!

There isn't an assembly plant in Smyrna Georgia....

[Trumpeteer]

I WILL NOT buy any vehicle not assembled here. As far as where the profits go, take for example the gorgeous new 2009 Nissan Altima 2 door. Assembled in Smyrna GA, [[4).

There isn't an assembly plant in Smyrna Georgia.

[Retroit]

This question is directed toward those of you that think it is better to buy a Toyota made in America than a Chevy made in China:

Do you honestly believe that Toyota is going to continue building cars here after GM shifts all its manufacturing overseas?

The reason that foreign automakers opened plants here is not because the American worker is better than their foreign counterparts in any way. They built here because:

1. They were being pressured to do so by the US government in an attempt to balance the trade deficit,
2. They were given generous financial incentives by the taxpayers of American states, and
3. They knew they would be able to fool those who think that buying a car built in the US by a foreign automaker is as patriotic as buying a car built in the US by an American automaker.

In other words, you've been fooled. And our country will be fooled when NO cars are built in the US anymore.

Think about it.

[Buy American]

PurpleHeart....I've been saying the same things since I joined DetroitYes back in 2007. You are 100% correct. Unfortunately, all of these people who preach that they will purchase foreign cars because of a perceived notion that "foreign is better" have already been bitten in the a$$. Look at our economic situation today. Anyone who thinks that our economy is in the toilet because of UAW workers is sadly mistaken. Our economy is in the toilet because of people thinking that even if they purchase foreign, things will still be okay in the U.S....WRONG!

WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA!
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

[chitaku]

GM is a joke and has been for years. My aunt and Uncle both are VPs at GM and are the most arrogant people about GM there are. It is the typical "What's good for GM is good for America" bullcrap. I bought a Chevy Aveo back in '05 thinking I'm buying an American car, come to find out it is a Korean crapper. Why I trusted my aunt and uncle is a question i'll never get. Instead of supporting real American workers, all my purchase supported was the execs. Ford is doing a hell of a job making themselves look good during this time in the industry. Kudos to them and a Ford Focus is looking mighty nice right now!

[Bobl]

PurpleHeart wrote a good piece in this thread.
Fact is, we've been had, people. The Mouse roared. Our standard of living, and our ability to produce the tools necessary for our defense, have been seriously eroded. The Japanese and German companies referred to by P. have successfully milked us. China owns us.
"Free Trade", the misnomer used to replace "Fair Trade", continues to drain our resources, and the Michigan unemployment rate is in the neighborhood of 15%, if those who have quit looking are counted.
I remember watching Ross Perot and Al Gore debating the future results of NAFTA. According to many, Gore "won" the debate. Now, the industrial parks that once employed manufacturing workers are empty lots, overgrown with weeds. As this trend continues, who will build the parts, assemblies, ammunition, and sophisticated computers and systems needed by the military?
Our greatest generation worked in the factories known as the "Arsenal Of Democracy". Where will the arsenal be located now?

[PurpleHeart]

GM is a joke and has been for years. My aunt and Uncle both are VPs at GM and are the most arrogant people about GM there are. It is the typical "What's good for GM is good for America" bullcrap. I bought a Chevy Aveo back in '05 thinking I'm buying an American car, come to find out it is a Korean crapper. Why I trusted my aunt and uncle is a question i'll never get. Instead of supporting real American workers, all my purchase supported was the execs. Ford is doing a hell of a job making themselves look good during this time in the industry. Kudos to them and a Ford Focus is looking mighty nice right now!

Let's face it you bought a GM because your aunt and uncle gave you a plan purchase and you went into the dealership looking for a "typical cheap" car. You didn't do your homework and got a P.O.S. as you call it. Don't dump on us because you failed to find a car that was good for the price that you could afford.

GM has those cars [[re-badged imports) for people who want to buy them, not as good as per se a Malibu, but you want it, better buy a re-badged import than a regular import right?

Well I put them all in the crapper as you put it. I make sure that what I buy is what I need, built by the people I want to support, and to the country I support. I see no difference in people who buy an Aveo than a Toyota ... same same.

To Bobl: ^5

[chitaku]

what are you talking about "Dump on us". ? All I did was tell my story man.

[Mama Jackson]

The only American-based TV company left is CurtisMathes. Though I'm not sure if the TVs are still produced in America.


They sell them at Target and Meijer.

Didn't CurtisMathis close their America operations? I thought they went out of business, or moved operations overseas back during the Raygun years?

[313WX]

Didn't CurtisMathis close their America operations? I thought they went out of business, or moved operations overseas back during the Raygun years?

They re-lauched themselves as a smaller company about 2 years ago. The headquarters is in Texas.

http://www.curtismathes.com/index1.html

http://www.curtismathes.com/index1.html

[Mama Jackson]

After I posted, I did a little internet research. As with all things now a days, some of the models are completely made here and some are assembled here with parts from overseas. But it's good to have some TV company's manufacturing products here.

[PurpleHeart]

First of all "Dump" is a term when you bring one isolated incident and make it out to be be a company wide fact. It means you are blowing out of proportion your case in order to make a point. Exactly what the point is is beyond the scope of things.

With Ford you fail to understand why they are not at the lending table with the other car companies and suppliers and trying to imply that Ford has a better way or thing. Fact is the Ford Family would loose their controlling interest in the company if they accept loans from the federal government and nothing else.

Now I like Ford but it was hard to understand why, at the height of World War 2, that Henry Ford would accept "The Grand Cross of the German Eagle" from Adolf Hitler. Further examination found out the way he treated Jew's in his factories was the underlining reason and he has since [[even after his death) the company has tried to live this down.



http://www.reformation.org/wall-st-ch6.html



Furthermore Henry Ford's newspaper published "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion," [[see half way down) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford

Still Ford has their drawing table a Hybrid Focus that gets 81.5 miles per gallon and is still [[arguably) an American Car Company.

[DetroitDad]

I think part of the problem is that most Americans aren't referred to as citizens anymore, they are referred to as consumers. The word "consumer" alone implies that there are no moral obligations to do anything but consume. In a world of consumers, brand loyalty holds higher precedence than being patriotic, especially if you own stock in a company.

The game has changed, and you guys are talking about an old way of playing. There is no China or America. In capitalism, the real countries of the world are companies, and you buy into those companies with stock. Once you own stock of a company, your view changes. When you own stock, you want your company to be as efficient and profitable as possible, so you benefit.