Incinerator Fire

[thecarl]

Just before noon today, I saw massive amounts of smoke billowing from the GDRRA facility on Russell. The smoke was visible over a great distance, but was quickly put "under control." I have seen no reports of this emergency situation on the forums, or in the news, which strikes me as curious. Scorch marks visible on the exterior of the building.

[thecarl]

More pics...hopefully not too small.

[marcwigle]

I'm sure that there's nothing to worry about. Just don't breathe for 24 hours... the City of Detroit is taking good care of the situation. That, I'm sure about.

[Meddle]

emergency situation ?


Probably a bunch of tires. Hardly an "emergency situation" .

[Whitehouse]

emergency situation ?


Probably a bunch of tires. Hardly an "emergency situation" .

At first, seeing the title, I though Captain Obvious is crying wolf.

Seeing the blackening on the outside I think this was quite a serious fire.

[Wesley Mouch]

The 'super-sidiary' of Detroit Thermal that provides steam heat service to much of downtown detroit recently purchased the
former GDRRA [[Greater Detroit Resource Recovery) plant.

from Crains...

A newly created joint venture of Connecticut-based Atlas Holdings LLC and Ohio-based Thermal Ventures II LP will own the Greater Detroit Resource Recovery Authority waste-to-energy plant along with the steam energy loop it services and an operating company for five other local steam facilities, in a transaction valued at $50 million.

No date is set for the waste plant, also known as the Detroit incinerator, to reopen.

This environmentally-friendly plant saves Detroit from contributing to those evil trash-mountains that the suburbs and Canada are creating in SE Mich. Burning the trash to create steam and electrical energy is much smarter.

Link to Crain's Detroit article

[j to the jeremy]

The trash incinerator, which Dave Bing promised to close, has been rebranded as "green". This makes me laugh and cry to no end. Unfortunately, plans for curbside recycling, shutting down the biggest incinerator in the US, and generally cleaning Detroit have been put aside in favor of attracting business, no matter how dirty it is.

If it caught fire, I'm happy I'm out of town today to avoid breathing in whatever burned. The air didn't smell as bad when the thing was shut off for a few months.

[marcwigle]

The trash incinerator, which Dave Bing promised to close, has been rebranded as "green". This makes me laugh and cry to no end. Unfortunately, plans for curbside recycling, shutting down the biggest incinerator in the US, and generally cleaning Detroit have been put aside in favor of attracting business, no matter how dirty it is.

If it caught fire, I'm happy I'm out of town today to avoid breathing in whatever burned. The air didn't smell as bad when the thing was shut off for a few months.

I can't comment on the Detroit incinerator but, I firmly agree with incineration. Here, in Canada's capital, we have filled up an old quarry and piled up garbage to anbelievable level.... right on the entrance to town on one of it's major highways. What leaks from that pile, and others like it, concern me a whole more than what a clean incinerator might spew out of its stacks. The pile does look nice now since they planted grass on it... just don't drink the wellwater for miles around it. ALL of the homes that were in the vicinity have bought and razed. And the stench is smelled for miles and miles.

[Lowell]

Nice pics TheCarl! Thanks. The location of this air poisoner near to Detroit's most vibrant area, the cultural center, adds impetus as to why it needs to be shut down. Fortunately for the cultural center, prevailing winds move the pollution to the east 80-90% of the time but that is no comfort to those to the east.

[Detroitnerd]

As far as the incinerator being "rebranded" as green, that has been going on for a long time.

I recall a story about one of the clowncilmembers speaking to a class of Detroit students. During a question-and-answer period, one of the students asked a good question: Why doesn't Detroit do recycling?

The clowncilperson adopted her best church-lady smile and condescendingly said, "Oh, but it is recycled. It is all recycled into energy."

Face it: The incinerator is going to be there, forever, poisoning the air on the east side, occasionally burning down, rebuilt with taxpayer money, as long as the waste-management issue is controlled by an authority composed of mayoral appointees. There are simply too many backroom dealers and palm-greasers ready to make money off of it, and too many sycophantic, inner-circle clowcil-types ready to shill for this cancer factory.

Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

[j to the jeremy]

I can't comment on the Detroit incinerator but, I firmly agree with incineration. Here, in Canada's capital, we have filled up an old quarry and piled up garbage to anbelievable level.... right on the entrance to town on one of it's major highways. What leaks from that pile, and others like it, concern me a whole more than what a clean incinerator might spew out of its stacks. The pile does look nice now since they planted grass on it... just don't drink the wellwater for miles around it. ALL of the homes that were in the vicinity have bought and razed. And the stench is smelled for miles and miles.

There is no such thing as clean incineration.

If we must have it, there is no excuse for it to be within a mile of a major hospital complex, university, cultural center, and smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood that would otherwise be desirable for redevelopment but is now a wasteland.

And by the way, residents of Detroit do not appreciate Canadian "recyclables" that Toronto and other municipalities have been found sending to the incinerator to burn. Plus, the incinerator can not even be turned on unless it is full to capacity, something the city achieves each day by burning suburban and Canadian trash. It is an example of putting the regions trash, quite literally, in what should be its gem, greater downtown Detroit.

Detroit is the largest city in the US without curbside recycling, despite the tireless efforts of grassroots groups to change this. Instead, we support our asthma rates of 3x higher than normal by burning other people's trash in a residential area, all so that a steam heating loop for 146 buildings downtown can shoot smelly air out of manholes.

[Gistok]

There is no such thing as clean incineration.

If we must have it, there is no excuse for it to be within a mile of a major hospital complex, university, cultural center, and smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood that would otherwise be desirable for redevelopment but is now a wasteland.

And by the way, residents of Detroit do not appreciate Canadian "recyclables" that Toronto and other municipalities have been found sending to the incinerator to burn. Plus, the incinerator can not even be turned on unless it is full to capacity, something the city achieves each day by burning suburban and Canadian trash. It is an example of putting the regions trash, quite literally, in what should be its gem, greater downtown Detroit.

Detroit is the largest city in the US without curbside recycling, despite the tireless efforts of grassroots groups to change this. Instead, we support our asthma rates of 3x higher than normal by burning other people's trash in a residential area, all so that a steam heating loop for 146 buildings downtown can shoot smelly air out of manholes.

Ummm... some corrections here.... all Canadian trash goes to a landfill in western Wayne County... and NOT the Detroit Incinerator.... and if there's no curbside recycling... then what are those [[2 cubic ft. sized) blue plastic boxes that go curbside in Detroit every trashday next to the tall trash barrels and "paper" leaf/lawn bags??

[Detroitnerd]

Ummm... some corrections here.... all Canadian trash goes to a landfill in western Wayne County... and NOT the Detroit Incinerator.... and if there's no curbside recycling... then what are those [[2 cubic ft. sized) blue plastic boxes that go curbside in Detroit every trashday next to the tall trash barrels and "paper" leaf/lawn bags??

What blue plastic boxes?

[thecarl]

Meddle, there were more than a dozen emergency vehicles on site responding to the situation - so at the minimum, it was a very serious situation, I'd say! But, the volume of smoke from this incident, and scorching of the building, suggest that there was an emergency.

Lowell, thanks. In this case, the smoke was rolling south-southwest, toward the hospitals and the cultural center. Much of the smoke hovered at ground level, obscuring visibility along the I-75 service drives and across Warren.

I'm not familiar with the inside of the facility, but based upon videos I've seen of the center, the smoke was emanating from what may be the sorting part of the facility, where the waste is separated. If that is correct, there should have been no smoke coming from that building whatsoever.

I'm still puzzled over the fact that I saw news crews and TV cameras there, and seemingly every fire engine that could be mustered - yet there are no stories that I can find?

[Wesley Mouch]

Incineration is growing in Europe. Detroit was at the vanguard when the incinerator was built. Check out what's happening... from the NYTimes....

Why is Europe ahead of the U.S. in embracing clean incinerators that turn garbage into energy?

Johan Spanner for The New York Times
The Vestforbraending plant in Copenhagen, the largest of the 29 waste-to-energy plants in Denmark. Their use has reduced the country's energy costs.

Far cleaner than conventional incinerators, this new type of plant converts local trash into heat and electricity. Dozens of filters catch pollutants, from mercury to dioxin, that would have emerged from its smokestack only a decade ago.

....

Read full article in New York Times
Your choice. Live in the past and oppose progress, and surprise, you'll get no progress and watch Europe figure out how to do green.

Yes, we have an old trash incinerator. Maybe its time to improve. Not regress because of naysayers.

Detroit's incinerator heats downtown Detroit with less CO2 than suburbia who is burning natural gas.

[Detroitnerd]

Incineration is growing in Europe. Detroit was at the vanguard when the incinerator was built. Check out what's happening... from the NYTimes....

Yes, we have an old trash incinerator. Maybe its time to improve. Not regress because of naysayers.

Detroit's incinerator heats downtown Detroit with less CO2 than suburbia who is burning natural gas.

Hahaha. Thanks for the humor. Why don't you go live in a house at Medbury and Dubous if the incinerator is so freakin' sweet!

[Gistok]

Hahaha. Thanks for the humor. Why don't you go live in a house at Medbury and Dubous if the incinerator is so freakin' sweet!

Are there any left on Medbury??

In case you didn't know it [[and haven't watched a PBS show showing European efforts at greening) he's serious.... If the Europeans can figure out a way to filter out the pollutants... then why can't we?

As for those blue containers.... I don't live in Detroit... but I see them often on the far east side [[Balduck Park area) on trash day. Don't know what they're doing in the rest of the city. Also... they only take paper leaf/lawn bags [[that's recylcing, isn't it?).... plastic bag lawn waste gets left at the curb by the trash man.

Is this merely a pilot program [[or remnants of one?) not implemented throughout the city??

[Detroitnerd]

Are there any left on Medbury??

Yeah, at least Google maps shows a few. See, I drive down St. Aubin quite a lot to go to work. In the summer, I often bike. The headache-inducing piles of trash that stink all summer long, combined with the toxic pollutants the plant sprays all over the area, where I live, help me see it in a slightly different light than, say, a suburbanite watching interesting stories on public television about new technologies in Europe.

In case you didn't know it [[and haven't watched a PBS show showing European efforts at greening) he's serious.... If the Europeans can figure out a way to filter out all the pollutants... then why can't we?

Oh, sure. There are ways to filter out pollutants. They simply aren't profitable. See, the incinerator is supposed to be profitable. And all those environmental controls that are supposed to protect Detroiters from the harmful pollutants cost too much money. Plus, we in the city have listened for years as the people running the incinerator talk out of both sides of their mouths. For years, they said it was just fine, a model of "green" technology. Then, later, when it changed hands, they had to saddle the city with a number of expensive "upgrades." [[Well, how safe was it then?) And their PR people have been disingenuous at best. At one point, they had a reporter friend of mine up on the stack and told him, "See? Nothing's coming out!" [[Nothing? Nothing that smells, but as for odorless things that kill ...)

As for those blue containers.... I don't live in Detroit... but I see them often on the far east side [[Balduck Park area) on trash day. Don't know what they're doing in the rest of the city. Also... they only take paper leaf/lawn bags [[that's recylcing, isn't it?).... plastic bag lawn waste gets left at the curb by the trash man.

I wouldn't know about lawn bags, as I compost all my waste at home, but I have never seen a recycling container in Detroit ever. I had heard they had some "pilot plans" but that they were only doing it as a test. In other words, there is no comprehensive recycling component for Detroit's waste management plan. I think that -- before we get all excited about how Europe is able to burn trash so well -- we could make a few changes right away.

* Implement a serious curbside recycling program, ensuring we have less trash to dispose of in the first place.
* Build upon the Garden Resource Program's efforts to teach Detroiters how to compost at home, eliminating the need to pick up so much lawn waste.
* Give tax credits for businesses that use sustainable practices, such as composting, using compostable packaging or minimal packaging.

And, if incineration is so great and its benefits are so easily understood, then it should be a popular public choice. Therefore, we don't need an authority of inner-circle advisers to greenlight it, but it should come out handily in public debate. Therefore:

* Get rid of GDRRA and replace it with a simple department that answers to the people of Detroit, the council, or ANYBODY but the mayor and his cronies.

Gistok, I think you're sincere, but I wonder how you'd feel if we plopped the incinerator down where YOU live. You may not be as gung-ho as you seem to be now.

[j to the jeremy]

Are there any left on Medbury??

In case you didn't know it [[and haven't watched a PBS show showing European efforts at greening) he's serious.... If the Europeans can figure out a way to filter out the pollutants... then why can't we?

As for those blue containers.... I don't live in Detroit... but I see them often on the far east side [[Balduck Park area) on trash day. Don't know what they're doing in the rest of the city. Also... they only take paper leaf/lawn bags [[that's recylcing, isn't it?).... plastic bag lawn waste gets left at the curb by the trash man.

Is this merely a pilot program [[or remnants of one?) not implemented throughout the city??

I didn't remember that they had started the program in 2 neighborhoods under Cockrel, which is great. [[http://detnews.com/article/20090421/...side-recycling)
However, we are still well behind most other cities. And the reason we have been slow to implement the program is because the incinerator must be filled before it can be turned on. The city's trash [[and now only 90% of its recyclables!) only fill about half of the plant, which means there's no motive to keep the recycling program growing, but there is a financial motive to keep the incinerator full.


And I know Canadian trash isn't supposed to go to the incinerator, but there was a case a few years back when it came out that Toronto had been sending things our way to be burned instead of recycled in Canada. I will find the article when I have time.

[Hamtragedy]

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

[j to the jeremy]

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

Part of the problem must come from the fact that the program was implemented as Cockrel was on the way out, and Bing hasn't really been public about improving Detroit's environmental record. Does anyone know what kind of education was given to the 'hoods who received bins, or were they just distributed with little notice or care?

[Detroitnerd]

The blue containers are a pilot program, limited to only a few neighborhoods. In Grandmont/Rosedale they actually have the roll out blue courville containers, which are [[allegedly) picked up every other week. The program is about 18 months old. From what I've gathered from my own observations, people either don't know or don't care what winds up in them, and don't know when it gets picked up. I've seen some trucks carry two drivers, one to verify the contents, the other to operate the lift, after which many containers remain curbside because they "fail" inspection.

Jeez, I had kinda suspected it was designed to fail. You know, like, "Them ignant Detroiters will never be able to learn to recycle." More paper and plastic to BURN.

[Captain Hindsight]

At first, seeing the title, I though Captain Obvious is crying wolf.

Seeing the blackening on the outside I think this was quite a serious fire.

Someone trying to rouse me?

If the incinerator was shut down it wouldn't smell so bad.

My job is done here.

PM me next time, Ill get back to you within the week.

[Wesley Mouch]

...<snip>

If the incinerator was shut down it wouldn't smell so bad.

Enjoy living next to trash mountain!

[Wesley Mouch]

Hahaha. Thanks for the humor. Why don't you go live in a house at Medbury and Dubous if the incinerator is so freakin' sweet!

I live within a 2 miles of the incinerator.