Official Water and Sewage Dept. Control Thread

**7miledog** · December-23-10, 07:41 PM

Moderator Note: This thread originally titled "Is Kwame to Blame if the Water Dept. is Taken Over?" has been renamed to encompass the broader topic of control of the DWSD in view of the compromise over its control.

Based on the recent allegations of graft coming out of the Det. Water Dept., coupled with the statements of LBP and the ever-rabid Mayor Fouts, along with the GOP majority in the legislature: 1) how likely do you think it is that a bill will be introduced in the new legislature to regionalize the Det. Water Department, 2) is that a bad thing if it does happen, 3) is it KK's fault, and if so, 4) will any Detroiter's appropriately assign blame to KK?

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one thinking this...

**SWMAP** · December-23-10, 07:49 PM

I can't wrap my head around the idea of Lansing passing a law to expropriate the ownership of something that Detroit clearly owns if Detroit doesn't want to give up it's asset. If Warren wants to own a water system - then Warren should build one!
Maybe Detriit not managing the best when contracts given out, but The work was going to be done and got done, so how was Warren hurt.

lincoln8740 · December-23-10, 08:01 PM

The water department is the worst city agency. Even with supposed federal oversight there was still widespread corruption. That is how bad it is. If you have ever had to deal with them its a fucking nightmare to say the least

Buy American · December-23-10, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

Based on the recent allegations of graft coming out of the Det. Water Dept., coupled with the statements of LBP and the ever-rabid Mayor Fouts, along with the GOP majority in the legislature: 1) how likely do you think it is that a bill will be introduced in the new legislature to regionalize the Det. Water Department, 2) is that a bad thing if it does happen, 3) is it KK's fault, and if so, 4) will any Detroiter's appropriately assign blame to KK?

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one thinking this...

Mayor Jim Fouts fights for the taxpayers of Warren and doesn't steal from them. He doesn't have a corrupt bone in his body and that's more than I can say for thug KK and 99.9% of all the politicians and appointees in Detroit. If Detroit has been overcharging not only Warren, but other communities for water, then something needs to be done. If the water department in Detroit is run by inept, corrupt imbeciles, then Lansing needs to step in and do something. Why should other communities be penalized with high water bills simply because of someone's inability to govern the department and run it efficiently? Bobby Ferguson is the perfect example of the extent of corruption in the Water Department when the sinkhole occurred in Sterling Heights. Not a thing was done until Ferguson was paid almost $400,000 to start the work, and that went into his pockets.

lilpup · December-23-10, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

Mayor Jim Fouts fights for the taxpayers of Warren and doesn't steal from them. He doesn't have a corrupt bone in his body and that's more than I can say for thug KK and 99.9% of all the politicians and appointees in Detroit. If Detroit has been overcharging not only Warren, but other communities for water, then something needs to be done. If the water department in Detroit is run by inept, corrupt imbeciles, then Lansing needs to step in and do something. Why should other communities be penalized with high water bills simply because of someone's inability to govern the department and run it efficiently? Bobby Ferguson is the perfect example of the extent of corruption in the Water Department when the sinkhole occurred in Sterling Heights. Not a thing was done until Ferguson was paid almost $400,000 to start the work, and that went into his pockets.

Caveat emptor! Don't like it? Get water elsewhere.

DC48080 · December-23-10, 10:10 PM

I am no apologist for the City of Detroit but if other cities don't like the criminal shenanigans that are so prevalent throughout the water department and the rest of Detroit they can build their own water system or join another community that has one. My wonderful unsustainable suburban community has it's own water system and we have no theft or corruption. And our rates are not outrageous.

Buy American · December-23-10, 10:50 PM

Buyer beware? No, I think Detroit beware.
There is no accountability for anyone within the confines of the walls of City Hall it seems. Mayor Fouts and possibly many other mayors of other communities who obtain their water from Detroit may ask for an investigation and get it. The FBI is looking at many corrupt individuals within the City of Detroit and somewhere down the line, maybe someone will be held responsible for gouging communities, it's about time.

**7miledog** · December-23-10, 11:02 PM

So Buy American, if you buy a cheeseburger from McDonald's, and that particular franchise gouged you for that burger, are you entitled to an ownership interest in that franchise or is your recourse to go to a differently owned McDonalds franchise?

**Gistok** · December-24-10, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by DC48080

I am no apologist for the City of Detroit but if other cities don't like the criminal shenanigans that are so prevalent throughout the water department and the rest of Detroit they can build their own water system or join another community that has one. My wonderful unsustainable suburban community has it's own water system and we have no theft or corruption. And our rates are not outrageous.

Hmmm... then you don't live in 48080 any more.... cuz 2 years ago SCS spent $50,000 of our money, along with an additional sum by Warren et al.... to check into getting their own water system... end result... SCS wasted $50,000.

**Cinderpath** · December-24-10, 12:49 AM

-So let me get this straight: 1) It is obvious that there was rampant corruption at the Detroit Water Dept, and other users of the system, were gauged through higher rates to pay for the corruption. 2) The gouged users want recourse, as basically, their money was stolen from them, and want to prevent this from happening in the future. 3) People here say: that's the way it is; go elsewhere for your water. As if building another water infrastructure in a time of little funds is a smart idea, when the real problem is a bunch of corrupt thugs? I don't know what disgust me more: the corruption, or the people on this list saying if you don't like it go elsewhere. I hope the city does loose control of the Water Department, the actions of individuals in the city have personally cost me unnecessary hundreds of dollars for nothing. The mindset here is simply a microcosm of why our city continues to fail.

**SWMAP** · December-24-10, 07:39 AM

I am not saying that the Water Department shouldn't be investigated [[altho already under Federal Supervision for many years). I am saying that, no matter how badly run it is, the City of Detroit owns it lock, stock and barrel, and most of the extensions to the suburban communities as well. Those communities want to buy Detroit Water Board water. But they probably just can't say: we don't want to buy water anymore. Now we want to take Detroit's water system of more than 1000 years building and own it for ourselves because we think we can so a bettter job.
The questioner who started this thread seemed to think it's inevitable and wonders if KK will take the blame of history for Detroit losing the ownership of it's undeniable possession. I just said that Lansing unlikely to go there.

**SWMAP** · December-24-10, 07:47 AM

Again, typing on a phone. Meant, above, "more than a century in the building."

**SWMAP** · December-24-10, 08:38 AM

Also, as I was thinking about the premise above, I realized that some people think their water rates are directly impacted by actions of KK and Ferguson, but that would not be the case. Infrastructure is paid for through the sale of bonds and Federal funds, etc. So unless you bought munis and took a loss, not hurt. This is what Mayor Fouts is asking: WERE we hurt?
Now when infrastructure upgrades complete, likely consumer water rates rise because better eater, better pressure- I don't know what but increased attractiveness makes things cost alittle moe. However, I am pretty sure that average customer in Warren's rates aren't higher or much higher than the average customer in Grand Rapids or Saginaw. And Think Warren's water cleaner.

ferntruth · December-24-10, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Caveat emptor! Don't like it? Get water elsewhere.

I don't know if the water department will be regionalized or not [[I personally think it should be), but if it is, my response to your displeasure will be:

Caveat emptor! Don't like it? Move somewhere else.

[[see, its an idiotic comment regardless of who makes it)

**East Detroit** · December-24-10, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Hmmm... then you don't live in 48080 any more.... cuz 2 years ago SCS spent $50,000 of our money, along with an additional sum by Warren et al.... to check into getting their own water system... end result... SCS wasted $50,000.

End result... both Mayors got re-elected due to the code speak commentary.

**Novine** · December-24-10, 10:34 AM

Unless the state constitution gets changed, DWSD isn't going to be regionalized. End of discussion.

**mjb3** · December-24-10, 10:41 AM

Lansing "regionalized" DTW airport, they can do the same thing with DWSD.

I don't think it's right, but McCullogh[[Oak Cty drain comm) and all the other customers are licking thier chops hoping legislature and Snyder seize the water dept.

The lawyers will all get paid, but in the end I think Lansing has jurisdiction to seize it if they want.

**Lowell** · December-24-10, 10:43 AM

Let's see, if there is corruption in Warren or any other city, that gives other communities the right to lay claim to its assets? Since everything involves taxes, revenue sharing, etc. arguably everybody in the state is aggrieved when there is municipal malfeasance anywhere.

Fouts is following an absurd line of thinking that says, "If I am a customer, I deserve ownership of companies from which I make purchases and can demand a seat on on their board of directors." Fortunately there are laws and court procedures that will give this foolishness a simple answer. If you want the Water and Sewage Department, buy it. Not for sale? Take a hike.

Any veteran of 8 Mile politics knows what is really going on. Fouts is grandstanding and code-speaking on this issue much in the mode of LBP. It is a handy deflection of issues facing his rapidly declining and increasingly troubled community.

1910 2,445 −4.8%
1920 3,564 45.8%
1930 14,269 300.4%
1940 22,126 55.1%
1950 42,653 92.8%
1960 89,426 109.7%
1970 179,260 100.5%
1980 161,134 −10.1%
1990 144,864 −10.1%
2000 138,247 −4.6%

Buy American · December-24-10, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Let's see, if there is corruption in Warren or any other city, that gives other communities the right to lay claim to its assets? Since everything involves taxes, revenue sharing, etc. arguably everybody in the state is aggrieved when there is municipal malfeasance anywhere.

Fouts is following an absurd line of thinking that says, "If I am a customer, I deserve ownership of companies from which I make purchases and can demand a seat on on their board of directors." Fortunately there are laws and court procedures that will give this foolishness a simple answer. If you want the Water and Sewage Department, buy it. Not for sale? Take a hike.

Any veteran of 8 Mile politics knows what is really going on. Fouts is grandstanding and code-speaking on this issue much in the mode of LBP. It is a handy deflection of issues facing his rapidly declining and increasingly troubled community.

1910 2,445 −4.8%
1920 3,564 45.8%
1930 14,269 300.4%
1940 22,126 55.1%
1950 42,653 92.8%
1960 89,426 109.7%
1970 179,260 100.5%
1980 161,134 −10.1%
1990 144,864 −10.1%
2000 138,247 −4.6%

In my opinion, you are wrong in stating that Fouts has alterior motives for his statements.

**Novine** · December-24-10, 12:55 PM

"Lansing "regionalized" DTW airport, they can do the same thing with DWSD."

Apples and oranges. The airport isn't a utility.

**Mikeg** · December-24-10, 01:50 PM

What politician in their right mind would want to take control of [[or buy) the over-built, under-maintained and Federally-regulated DWSD?

Based on recent population trends, the DWSD has way more water treatment and delivery capacity than will be ever needed by Detroit and their other SE Michigan water customers. Annual water usage by their suburban customers has been on the decline in the past few years and many suburban communities are consequently having to increase their water rates to cover their fixed costs, which results in even less billable water consumption and sewage delivery for DWSD. The outward growth that the DWSD enabled and has counted on for years has had its bubble burst and its only a matter of time before the DWSD finds itself being brutally squeezed between declining demand and rising operating costs. If it's "buy it or shut up and take a hike", then the smart politicians ought to just zip their lips and take a short hike, since the day isn't too far down the road when a weakened DWSD will no longer be able to unilaterally raise rates and see a corresponding increase in revenue to cover their rising costs.

Buy American · December-26-10, 09:29 AM

More proof that something needs to be done to protect the suburbs from corruption in Detroit.

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/...7856870805.txt

**Mikeg** · December-26-10, 10:43 AM

This blog is a pretty good chronicle of DWSD - related news, issues and projects.

I think it's only a matter of time before the DWSD goes the way of Cobo and the Zoo.

The DWSD currently has a number of unfilled positions in its top management ranks and is about to undergo a slew of retirements by key personnel, all of this happening on top of a three-year period of steadily declining demand for water, the resulting reduction in sewage to be treated and the cancellation of long-term infrastructure project plans.

While it's likely been a hindrance in the recruitment of nationally-recognized candidates to fill the DWSD Director position, the recent Federal indictments are just a minor distraction compared to the many other DWSD operational and personnel issues that need to be immediately addressed.

The longer these open issues linger, the weaker the hand held by the City of Detroit officials in controlling the future of the DWSD.

citylover · December-26-10, 01:19 PM

If communities did indeed develop their own water systems? Wouldn't Detroit lose considerable income? There are many more suburban customers then Detroit customers.

I sympathize with those that don't trust the water dept.Is is it not understandable that they would feel that way based on the level of corruption exposed. so far. And what about regional cooperation; by the tenor of this thread the level of mistrust might be intractable.

**Fury13** · December-26-10, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by 7miledog

Based on the recent allegations of graft coming out of the Det. Water Dept., coupled with the statements of LBP and the ever-rabid Mayor Fouts, along with the GOP majority in the legislature: 1) how likely do you think it is that a bill will be introduced in the new legislature to regionalize the Det. Water Department, 2) is that a bad thing if it does happen, 3) is it KK's fault, and if so, 4) will any Detroiter's appropriately assign blame to KK?

1) Very likely.
2) Yes.
3) Yes, for the most part.
4) Many will.