Detroit To Potentially Lose Stance As 2nd Largest Midwest City

**313WX** · December-21-10, 10:08 PM

The latest census estimates I'm hearing would put Detroit [[at best) around 750,000 and more likely 700,000 people.

After holding this ranking for a good century, unless Indianapolis [[which as of 2009 has roughly 800,000 people) experienced a freak population loss, they will officially become the 2nd largest city in the midwest behind Chicago.

Thoughts?

eastjohn · December-21-10, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by 313WX

The latest census estimates I'm hearing would put Detroit [[at best) around 750,000 and more likely 700,000 people.

After holding this ranking for a good century, unless Indianapolis experienced a freak population decline, they will officially become the 2nd largest city in the midwest behind Chicago.

Thoughts?

I second that. With the Michigan census numbers being way off from previous estimates, Detroit is also on track to disappoint.Detroit is well under 800,000 as I stated previously. 695,000 is my bet.

**Gistok** · December-21-10, 10:17 PM

It matters about as much as Columbus being Ohio's largest city.

It's all a matter of how you draw boundaries... and annexation. Indianapolis [[800,000) and Columbus [[770,000) are large mostly because of annexation. Indianapolis has annexed itself to over 372 sq. miles [[compared to 139 for Detroit). It takes up over 90% of the county where it is located.

Columbus is a good analogy... it is now Ohio's largest city, but 3rd largest metro area.

Does this matter? Probably to people who like statistics....

eastjohn · December-21-10, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

It matters about as much as Columbus being Ohio's largest city.

It's all a matter of how you draw boundaries... and annexation. Indianapolis [[800,000) and Columbus [[770,000) are large mostly because of annexation. Indianapolis has annexed itself to over 372 sq. miles [[compared to 139 for Detroit). It takes up over 90% of the county where it is located.

Columbus is a good analogy... it is now Ohio's largest city, but 3rd largest metro area.

Does this matter? Probably to people who like statistics....

Population matters. State and Federal monies go to the population centers. Detroit will lose out.Means less money for Detroit, less money for the suburbs.

**Gistok** · December-21-10, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

Population matters. State and Federal monies go to the population centers. Detroit will lose out.Means less money for Detroit, less money for the suburbs.

Metro Detroit still has about a 2-1 lead in metro population over Indianapolis...

And when you compare cities and metro area... there are intangibles that a mere statistic [[population) just doesn't convey.... such as sports teams [[we've got all 4 major sports), culture [[museums, symphony, opera), and a major airport... just to name a few.

Indianapolis would have a looooong way to go to catch up with metro Detroit.... it's more than just a number...

**oladub** · December-21-10, 10:43 PM

This is a list of the most populated metropolitan areas in America. No other midwest US city come anywhere near challenging metropolitan Detroit as the second largest midwest metropolitan city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

Pingu · December-21-10, 10:45 PM

I'm not worried, lose the mind-set of archaic municipal boundaries, look instead to market. I lived in Indy for a while, blink twice and you've driven past it. Look instead to reality, the contours of population and economic concentration. I lived in Fishers, and there weren't a smokestack in sight. Compare that to any of a bazillion Detroit suburbs. We still kick butt, but we need to stop thinking of Detroit as a "failed" district, and start thinking of it as the center of mass of a pretty impressive socio-economic cluster.

eastjohn · December-21-10, 10:52 PM

People, we are losing the bigger picture. We cannot have a prosperous region with the center rotten to the core. Every major U.S. metro area has a viable city center except Detroit. How long can the DIA, Detroit Orchestra, Science Museum etc.. continue to stay in a rotting city? San Francisco, San Jose, Jacksonville, Indianapolis are all poised to overtake Detroit in population in a matter of months.

eastjohn · December-21-10, 10:59 PM

Here are three Metro areas that will exceed the Metro Detroit area in population in the 2010 census. 1. Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale 2. San Franciso-Oakland-Fremont 3. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario

**English** · December-21-10, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

People, we are losing the bigger picture. We cannot have a prosperous region with the center rotten to the core. Every major U.S. metro area has a viable city center except Detroit. How long can the DIA, Detroit Orchestra, Science Museum etc.. continue to stay in a rotting city? San Francisco, San Jose, Jacksonville, Indianapolis are all poised to overtake Detroit in population in a matter of months.

THANK you. I am usually one of the biggest Pollyannas on DYes, but you are absolutely correct. The DSO strike is the canary in the coal mine. I thought it would be resolved by now, but this is frightening.

**canuck** · December-21-10, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Pingu

I'm not worried, lose the mind-set of archaic municipal boundaries, look instead to market. I lived in Indy for a while, blink twice and you've driven past it. Look instead to reality, the contours of population and economic concentration. I lived in Fishers, and there weren't a smokestack in sight. Compare that to any of a bazillion Detroit suburbs. We still kick butt, but we need to stop thinking of Detroit as a "failed" district, and start thinking of it as the center of mass of a pretty impressive socio-economic cluster.

Ive been saying that a couple of times about the usual complaint that there is no money. Well the property values have taken a beating but the car companies are getting stronger, and all told Detroit metro has one of the highest urban GDP's anywhere in the world. So, yes the mindset as you say needs to be transformed. There needs to be a recognition on the part of all regional leaders that they are losing out to other regions by not coalescing into one massive powerhouse of a city.

eastjohn · December-21-10, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by canuck

Ive been saying that a couple of times about the usual complaint that there is no money. Well the property values have taken a beating but the car companies are getting stronger, and all told Detroit metro has one of the highest urban GDP's anywhere in the world. So, yes the mindset as you say needs to be transformed. There needs to be a recognition on the part of all regional leaders that they are losing out to other regions by not coalescing into one massive powerhouse of a city.

Too little, too late, the train has left the station. Sure we still have our economic powerhouses in the metro area, but the innovation and fresh ideas have left. The people with money here are set in their ways and are just riding out life. The "new" Henry Fords have earned their degrees and moved south and west.

**English** · December-21-10, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

The "new" Henry Fords have earned their degrees and moved south and west.

What's sad is that I could probably write a list of at least 100 of these people who were born, reared, and educated in SE Michigan. Some of them attended our state universities; others, out of state. Almost none of them see any future for themselves, their families, their careers, or their dreams in this state.

That is why I think our only hope is to promote incentives for immigrants to set up their own neighborhoods, analogous to SW Detroit. I'm tired of the status quo. Something must change.

**canuck** · December-21-10, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

Too little, too late, the train has left the station. Sure we still have our economic powerhouses in the metro area, but the innovation and fresh ideas have left. The people with money here are set in their ways and are just riding out life. The "new" Henry Fords have earned their degrees and moved south and west.

Maybe, will it be the chinese or the russias or indains who start playing ball. A lot of incentives exist for gobbling up property and not just sitting on it. I believe the turnaround is here, but its a pretty mighty ship to steer. The will be more positive signs of change in that real estate is so devalued in the midst of a strong entrepreneurial region, great schools and institutions, it is not possible to have the city go down in the dumps more than it has. I think the US has taken serious notice of Detroit via media focus but also because the mortgage crisis linked to financial wizardry has hit the rest of the US pretty bad and they saw what deindustrialization had done to the country as a whole. I read in a recent issue of Newsweek that out of 300 million people there are now only 8 million working in manufaturing... I think it is time to stop this nonsense.

**Gistok** · December-21-10, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

This is a list of the most populated metropolitan areas in America. No other midwest US city come anywhere near challenging metropolitan Detroit as the second largest midwest metropolitan city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

Agreed.... and many of the metro areas cross boundaries [[to other states). If you add Windsor... that's another 325,000 people... and brings us up to 4.7 million. Oh but wait... metrics don't include Canada [[but Philly can include Camden NJ across the river??).

Metro Detroit, and especially Detroit proper has problems... that's a fact. But no point in getting your knickers into a twist merely about metrics.

Pingu · December-21-10, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

People, we are losing the bigger picture. We cannot have a prosperous region with the center rotten to the core. Every major U.S. metro area has a viable city center except Detroit. How long can the DIA, Detroit Orchestra, Science Museum etc.. continue to stay in a rotting city? San Francisco, San Jose, Jacksonville, Indianapolis are all poised to overtake Detroit in population in a matter of months.

The reality is the only way to campare these cities is to see how many major league teams they support in all the sports: baseball, football, basketball, hockey. We still come out on top, am I right?

eastjohn · December-21-10, 11:36 PM

1. Phoenix-Mesa-Glendale 2. San Franciso-Oakland-Fremont 3. Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario Will beat the Metro Detroit area in population with the 2010 census.

eastjohn · December-21-10, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by Pingu

The reality is the only way to campare these cities is to see how many major league teams they support in all the sports: baseball, football, basketball, hockey. We still come out on top, am I right?

For now. That's the problem with Detroit. We have never planned for the future. Can a metro area with a massive decline in population continue to support this?Are the Pistons secure with staying in the area?

**JBMcB** · December-21-10, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

Every major U.S. metro area has a viable city center except Detroit.

Define "Viable." LA's downtown was a commercial high-rise wasteland until a few years ago, and I wouldn't exactly call the LA region a failure.

eastjohn · December-21-10, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

Define "Viable." LA's downtown was a commercial high-rise wasteland until a few years ago, and I wouldn't exactly call the LA region a failure.

"Viable" means having one chain grocery store in the city limits.

eastjohn · December-21-10, 11:43 PM

or one major retailer in the downtown.

Augustiner · December-21-10, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

"Viable" means having one chain grocery store in the city limits.

Look, I'm not one to try to make Detroit out to be something it's not, but that is a terrible definition of a viable central city.

Pingu · December-21-10, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by eastjohn

For now. That's the problem with Detroit. We have never planned for the future. Can a metro area with a massive decline in population continue to support this?Are the Pistons secure with staying in the area?

If you're talking metro decline, then I agree, the whole thing might be slipping away from us. But if that's the case, we need to be honest and not point the finger at "Detroit" [[code: blacks), but rather point the finger at the UAW, for killing the golden goose.

eastjohn · December-22-10, 12:00 AM

Detroit hasnt had a major grocery store in the city or a major retailer in the Downtown for years yet we seem to accept that as "normal." The standards we set for our city as "normal", would be labeled as "terminal" for others.

eastjohn · December-22-10, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Pingu

If you're talking metro decline, then I agree, the whole thing might be slipping away from us. But if that's the case, we need to be honest and not point the finger at "Detroit" [[code: blacks), but rather point the finger at the UAW, for killing the golden goose.

The blame goes around to all. White, Black, Gay, Straight. We all f*cked this up.Trading with the Chinese was the final nail.