Is Grid Heat a Human Right - A DTE Question

**SWMAP** · December-21-10, 09:47 PM

I see that the Michigan Citizen has an article about protests of DTE shut-offs, demanding that the State intervene because "heat is a human right."
Do you agree? How much grid heat is a human right - as much as you want? When exactly did grid heat [[as opposed to wood-burning stoves become a human right?
Disclosure: for budgetary reasons, my house is heated to 57 degrees at night and 62 degrees during the night. I wish sometimes to be warmer, but must keep costs down.

**RYANGUARD** · December-21-10, 10:10 PM

On the other hand is Air-conditioning a human right too?What's next?DTE is a Corporation providing a service which is electricity and natural gas.Can we expect other corporations to follow suit.Is gasoline a human right?I don't like paying $3 a gallon.Can we protest that too?I could go on and on.......

**Islandman** · December-21-10, 10:24 PM

Interesting question. I wonder also if there should be a minimum level. The only question would be how to police it in regards to abandoned properties, etc.

**jackie5275** · December-21-10, 10:32 PM

The thing about DTE that's so difficult in dealing with them is that they're the only game in town. When you have a monoply, it's easy to set the rules & standards. I think that's the biggest frustration about DTE with folks. It's a take it or leave it or in some cases folks get around it by stealing it. But pretty much, they call the shots on rates, payment plans, & shutoffs. What are you going to do if you get shutoff? It's not like you can call Consumer's Power for service. You have to come back to them for service. The public service commission doesn't pay attention to what happens by DTE on a day to day or case by case basis.

**English** · December-21-10, 11:01 PM

I agree about DTE having a monopoly. Also, the powers that be thought that it would be brilliant to construct quite a bit of 20th century housing without easy, alternate ways of heating. [[I remember being very confused as a child about how Santa would get in since we didn't have a fireplace... my dad and mom assured me that "we'll let him in the front door.") So if I'm poor, and wanted to use a heater or build a fire, I don't have that option available to me without endangering my household and my neighbors.

**majohnson** · December-21-10, 11:03 PM

It is not a human right, and would it matter if it was?

**SWMAP** · December-21-10, 11:12 PM

I know lot's of people who, in this city, have had wood or pellet burning stoves professionally installed and heat their jes partially or wholly by stove. Of course, less convenient and hard to think up when used to convenience of gas heat.

**CLAUDE G** · December-21-10, 11:17 PM

Why do the people who can afford to pay their bills always have to subsidize the people who can't afford it?

I can't pay my bills, they come shut me off and make me pay the entire ballance before they will turn me back on.

My whole issue is this, these people can't pay a gas bill, but they have money to go to the Gas station to buy a few gallons of Kerosene for their space heaters?

Why doesn't DTE just install remote controlled meters for these people and they can pre-pay for their gas, like they do for their cell phones and everything else. When their credit runs out with DTE, they get shut off instead of going into debt for hundreds and in some cases thousands of dollars.

Thats really the entire issue, DTE lets these people get so far behind that they dig themselves into a debt with them that they can never get out of.

**SWMAP** · December-21-10, 11:17 PM

Forgive my phone keyboard typos please

**Gistok** · December-21-10, 11:35 PM

The days of DTE letting you get $1000 behind on your energy bills are long gone.... now if you get $200 behind, they'll shut you off.

**English** · December-21-10, 11:49 PM

As a young teacher, I once got $900 behind without a shutoff. Long story, involving a split of bills and someone who was supposed to pay DTE while I paid the rent. I was shafted. [[Of course, that was before DTE started reporting to the credit bureaus...)

**CLAUDE G** · December-22-10, 01:02 AM

Yea your right, they did lower the limit. I had a gas bill that hit $500 a few years back, and they shut off the service on the first warm day.

I just forgot to pay it, thinking I was setup on autopay

**English** · December-22-10, 01:07 AM

Wow. Yeah, the $900 was racked up more than 5, almost 6 years ago. I paid it off soon as I realized, but it hurt and I had some slow pays elsewhere till I caught up a couple months later.

They started reporting to the credit bureaus right after that time period, and I remember the debate. I think the issue is that everything has gotten more expensive, while wages have remained stagnant. Americans all took the equivalent of a 10% paycut between 2000 and 2010, and there's really nothing we can do about it. Don't get me started on housing and net worth...

**PaulieG63** · December-22-10, 02:21 AM

Heat a human right? Are you kidding? Heck NO! Not in a country that has no problem allowing paved roads to be turned back to gravel. Not in a country that believes organised labor is "communism." Not in a country that has seen a titanic shift of it's wealth move to the richest 1% or 2% while the rest of our wages have declined...for FOUR DECADES. Not in a country where 45,000 die ANNUALLY for lack of healthcare or 1,000,000 + declare bankruptcy for no other reason than they become ill. Not in a country that is slowly [[but most assuredly) dismantling the paper thin social safety net we currently enjoy. No.......................................
heat is not a human right...here. If you are financially stricken in these perilous times...o well, "the Lord helps those who help themselves." Young children in the home...o well, spring is coming. The elderly or infirm...see if ya can't find a social service organisation handing out blankets.
Is heat a human right...not in a country that unabashedly and PROUDLY puts profits ahead of people, [[and human life.) How did we ever become this?

Ravine · December-22-10, 02:25 AM

Yeah, DTE doesn't let that happen, anymore. And I get the bit about them being the "only game in town," although that is not strictly accurate.
But, leave it to the half-assed Michigan Citizen to even allow print-space to the ridiculous assertion, regardless of its source, that heat is a human right.

If only the hot air blown by the Citizen was sufficient; sadly, they publish only once per week.

littlebuddy · December-22-10, 06:49 AM

What does the bible say. "If you don't work, you don't get no heat", No, its "if you don't work, you don't get to eat" Is eating a "right" How many people live their lives in such a way that any drop in income brings bad results. Maybe we all need to live differrent.

**Left_For_Texas** · December-22-10, 06:52 AM

Heat is a human right for everyone who pays their previous month's bill.

**gnome** · December-22-10, 06:58 AM

just wondering here, ... but does the Michigan Citizen charge for their product, or do they think that reading their paper a basic human right?

**Wesley Mouch** · December-22-10, 09:07 AM

Grid heat is a right. Edison must provide you service. They cannot deny you this 'right' for any reason [[except unsafe use.)

To obtain this right, you have the 'responsibility' to pay your bill.

**bailey** · December-22-10, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

The days of DTE letting you get $1000 behind on your energy bills are long gone.... now if you get $200 behind, they'll shut you off.

No kidding. I forgot to pay a bill last year while out of town. I was getting calls left and right. Do you need help paying your bill?...we noticed you did not pay your bill, when can we expect payment... your bill is late, if you fail to pay, your service will be terminated...etc. Seriously one missed payment [[which was paid immediately upon returning) in 4 years of service and it's straight to f-ing collections dept. Somewhat insulting, but nice to see that they are on it and not letting it go a year before they start to intervene

**gazhekwe** · December-22-10, 10:15 AM

Believe it or not, people can live without grid heat in Michigan in the winter. Been there, done that. We do need to work to build our own infrastructure to heat our home, but the grid is not needed. Depending on the grid is our way of life, but it does mean we have to pay for it. If we can't pay for it, why is our right to have grid heat?

That being said, those of us who pay are subsidizing assistance programs for those who have problems paying. But they have to show good faith and be able to pay something.

I've been paying for gas and electric now for over 20 years, and I missed a bill. One bill in 20 years! DTE e-mailed and called before the next bill was due to ask if I needed help. They asked about helping me before dunning me about the bill.

**gumby** · December-22-10, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

The days of DTE letting you get $1000 behind on your energy bills are long gone.... now if you get $200 behind, they'll shut you off.

Wrong, I work for DHS and see shut off notices of 1000 to 4000 on a semi-regular basis. Mind you it is Consumers Energy who I deal with but I am sure it is similar with DTE. You see they know who is on public assistance and who isn't so they have no problem letting their bills skyrocket because they know DHS and the other agencies will pay it for them.

But I, on the other hand, will get a shut off notice for 40 bucks if I forget to pay for one month.

**Wykkidx** · December-22-10, 10:36 AM

WOW, it is something to see what happened to the American humanity. It is something to see that in a country as great as America once was that now we show little compassion to our fellow man and woman. Amazing in this day and age that people could and do freeze to death in America. I guess if people back in 85 had the same feelings as they do today Live Aid would have been empty.
I sure hope that no one here finds themselves in the position where they have to huddle for warmth due to hardships.

**milesdriven** · December-22-10, 10:42 AM

I've seen so many people in the hood who keep their thermostats set at 75-80 degrees in the winter, then complain when their gas gets shut off. Although I no longer have to deal with them, I hate DTE as much as the next guy [[took me several hours on the phone to correct a bill for a misread meter when I moved out of state) but I think there needs to be more incentives for conservation. .If the government is paying your gas bill you they should install a thermostat with a 72-degree cap, or something along those lines, and maybe implement more programs for insulating older houses.

**jackie5275** · December-22-10, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by PaulieG63

Is heat a human right...not in a country that unabashedly and PROUDLY puts profits ahead of people, [[and human life.) How did we ever become this?

It all started with Ronald Reagan & his idea to get back to the "good old days". Now at the time, people were thinking he meant the 50s & early 60s. In actuality it was probably 1900-1915 that he was thinking about, before income tax, the rise of the unions, etc when there was no middle class, just rich & poor kind of how it's getting to be now. His Reaganomics, trickle down economics, & voodoo economics have left this whole country in a state of boo hoo economics except for the top 2%, but that's a whole discussion for another thread.