Legal clarification request, open container on the sidewalk

[Russix]

Hey everyone, I've scoured the internet for a bit searching for an answer for this, but I haven't really come up with one. Here's the situation, when I do drink outside and I'm not at an establishment, I always make sure I'm on private property or some public place that doesn't explicitly prohibit the consumption of alcohol[[i.e. Belle Isle). My question for clarification of this law comes after tonight while watching the lunar eclipse. I noticed that I had wandered on to the sidewalk in front of my place of residence with my cup of beer to watch the astrological events unfold. It has always been a rule of mine to never do so because I believed the sidewalk to be considered public domain and that could equal a ticket. My neighbor has challenged my logic and now I seek the definition of the law that states the matter of drinking on a sidewalk. I couldn’t find anything on Google or in the Detroit city ordinances about this matter, so if anyone could point me to a specific ordinance or laws regarding this, it would be most appreciated. I believe it's better to know the law ahead of time than to find out about it later. Many thanks.

[Meddle]

In my experience, even on your own property can be considered 'public consumption' and can lead to a ticket or arrest. I've seen it happen.

I don't recommend trying to test it on a public sidewalk.

[Magnatomicflux]

I would have to assume that you are right becasue if you wern't, anyone could walk anywhere, anytime having a beer and provided you wern't hammered, noone could say squat.
I hope you find the answers, it's an interesting question.


I just googled the question and....in Hamilton Ontario anyways, the answer is No, it's public property so if you get caught you get busted. It goes on to say to "keep in mind that although your front lawn and porch are private property, they are in public view and so you can be charged if you're seen drinking there too"

I bet that's a pretty universal law. I don't think the fuzz is going to bust you for that lawn and porch one unless you're just wrecked and being a pain in the ass.
They'd probably tell you to take it inside or to the back.

[Meddle]

If you ever wonder why lawyers get such high fees, try to read and interpret laws once in a while:

PUBLIC HEALTH CODE [[EXCERPT)

Section 333.6523

Act 368 of 1978


333.6523 Local law, ordinance, resolution, or rule; interpretation or application of law by local unit of government; exceptions.


Sec. 6523.

[[1) After January 15, 1978, a city, county, township, or village may not adopt or enforce a local law, ordinance, resolution, rule, or portion thereof having the force of law that imposes a civil or criminal penalty for public intoxication, being a common drunkard, or being incapacitated, except as provided in subsection [[3) or [[4).

[[2) A local unit of government may not interpret or apply any law of general application to circumvent subsection [[1).

[[3) This part does not affect a law, ordinance, resolution, or rule against drunken driving, driving under the influence of alcohol, or other similar offense involving the operation of a vehicle, snowmobile, aircraft, vessel, machinery, or other equipment, or motorized conveyance, or regarding the sale, purchase, dispensing, possession, transportation, consumption, or use of alcoholic beverages at stated times and places, or by a particular class of individuals.

[[4) This act shall not prohibit a local unit of government from adopting an ordinance consistent with section 167 of Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, as amended, being section 750.167 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.


History: 1978, Act 368, Eff. Sept. 30, 1978
Popular Name: Act 368

THE MICHIGAN PENAL CODE [[EXCERPT)

Section 750.167

Act 328 of 1931


750.167 “Disorderly person” defined; subsequent violations by person convicted of refusing or neglecting to support family.


Sec. 167.

[[1) A person is a disorderly person if the person is any of the following:

[[a) A person of sufficient ability who refuses or neglects to support his or her family.

[[b) A common prostitute.

[[c) A window peeper.

[[d) A person who engages in an illegal occupation or business.

[[e) A person who is intoxicated in a public place and who is either endangering directly the safety of another person or of property or is acting in a manner that causes a public disturbance.

[[f) A person who is engaged in indecent or obscene conduct in a public place.

[[g) A vagrant.

[[h) A person found begging in a public place.

[[i) A person found loitering in a house of ill fame or prostitution or place where prostitution or lewdness is practiced, encouraged, or allowed.

[[j) A person who knowingly loiters in or about a place where an illegal occupation or business is being conducted.

[[k) A person who loiters in or about a police station, police headquarters building, county jail, hospital, court building, or other public building or place for the purpose of soliciting employment of legal services or the services of sureties upon criminal recognizances.

[[l) A person who is found jostling or roughly crowding people unnecessarily in a public place.

[[2) When a person, who has been convicted of refusing or neglecting to support his or her family under this section, is then charged with subsequent violations within a period of 2 years, that person shall be prosecuted as a second offender, or third and subsequent offender, as provided in section 168, if the family of that person is then receiving public relief or support.

That would SEEM to say that any local ordinance would be invalid unless you were creating a disturbance. Of course 'creating a disturbance' would be left up to the officer's discretion. Note that this also deals with intoxication versus merely an open container, but it would also be up to the officer's discretion to decide if you were just holding it or if you were intoxicated.

[Gannon]

In recent memory, the mere arrival of an on-duty police officer is what creates a disturbance.

Can we ticket them? LOL


I'm remembering that one pimply-faced chubby jerk who stalked those on Freak Beach on the canal at the NE 'corner' of Belle Isle over the summertime.


What a buzzclamp HE was...heh. Lucky that hangover was never too fierce. Moment he was out of our proximity...peace and joy and love returned in full force.

Officer of the peace, indeed.


Don't get me started on the nazi's in the boat...

[Road_warrior]

You need to look at City of Detroit ordinance 38-5-1. The city ord allows open intoxicants in a public place, but does not allow consumption of intoxicants in public.

Any person who shall make or assist in making any noise, disturbance, or improper diversion or any rout or riot, by which the peace and good order of the neighborhood is disturbed, or any person who shall consume alcoholic beverages on any street or sidewalk, or who shall engage in any indecent or obscene conduct in any public place, or who shall engage in an illegal occupation, or who shall loiter in a place of illegal occupation, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor

[wolverine]

Local and state issue. Just about everyone going off to college knows this and tries to avoid this!! Yes, you will get cited if you set foot on a sidewalk with an open container. When I was in college. We had to walk out the front door and around the side of the house to get to the laundry room in the basement. There wasn't much set back and our house sat up on a hill.

My housemate exited the house with an open can beer, walked down the steps and went to cut across the lawn. Because of the hill, he walked towards the edge and set one, ONE foot on the sidewalk by accident. A cop who was watching stop sign violators nearby caught the blunder. Pulled up, and busted my friend with a ticket which was quite expensive. My friend tried to fight it in court, but lost.

So there's your answer. No, you cannot set foot on a public walk with an open container...not even for a second!! Unless there is some event where open containers are temporarily permitted like festivals and parades.

Can't say you'd have to worry about it in Detroit. Would they care? However, all the cities in Michigan I've ever lived in, they most definitely enforce. Just stay off the sidewalk. It's not like you had 100 people over in your front yard to watch the eclipse did you? That seems to be the time the law is most heavily enforced....when front lawns overflow and public ROW becomes impeded by a bunch of people sipping out of plastic party cups.

[Crystal]

During the Woodward Dream Cruise a few years ago, three or so family members were handed $85 tickets for having paper cups containing beer on the sidewalk in front of a friend's house. The house was just off of Woodward itself, and the group was making its way to Woodward.

As I recall they all appealed the tickets and claimed they did not know about the ordinance. The appeals were not successful and the magistrate admonished the "grown men" for not knowing you couldn't have a beer on the sidewalk.

[Khartoum]

Was openly drinking 40s near the downtown bus terminal site one night...cops rolled up and they simply told us to go in a nearby diner, get brown bags and stop drinking so blatantly out in public.

Seems they had better things to worry about.

[sumas]

I imagine my husband is grateful our kids are now grown. He would take them out to trick or treat with a can of beer. Never a problem. The kids would get candy and he'd get a fresh beer.

[LodgeDodger]

Gee, how about using a paper bag?

[professorscott]

The Michigan Compiled Laws have nothing to say about this, so it's done by local ordinance. I don't know the local ordinances everywhere in Michigan, but I know in the City of Detroit, as mentioned earlier, consumption on a public street or sidewalk is prohibited. Now, as to carrying an open container, some judges will consider that to be prima facie evidence of consumption, and some won't.

So my rule is, caveat imbibor. Drink indoors.

Your own lawn, by the way, is sacrosanct. Police have no right whatsoever to enter your property without your permission, unless they have immediate and direct evidence of criminal activity [[which drinking a beer is not).

An interesting question, new to Michigan and not yet answered, is smoking a doob on your lawn. Now that medical marijuana is possibly legal [[have that argument someplace else), if a cop sees you toking up on your front stoop, does he have any evidence of criminal activity? You might be a patient, and you're on your own property. The policeman has absolutely no way to know whether you are a patient unless he asks you and you choose to answer him truthfully.

[Detroit2MeetU]

I just laughed out loud...
Picturing you with your ice cold Pabst staring at the night sky. Looking for a better vantage point you walk away from your house toward the street with you head pointed upward. Suddenly, you stop trying to gain your balance at the edge of your grass. You wave your arms to again gain balance. You throw your beer on your lawn as you fall onto the sidewalk. "Wheww!!! That was close!"

As you lay on the ground, your abandoned beer imbedded in the snow, you stare up at the lunar eclipse realizing how such a powerful force can nearly cause a man to walk on public property with a beer.

[sumas]

That actually is an interesting question Prof.

My husband has an application for medical mj. I think perhaps he is too embarassed to ask his doc. We haven't smoked the weed in years but as children of the 60/70's certainly have no adversion to it's use by others. Thought we might frame it and stick it somewhere in our files along with Grande postcards and other dumb memorabilia

Doubt Detroit police would much care. Not slamming Detroit police. In fact, had to call them twice in the past few weeks and response was very prompt and very polite. For the curious, property invasion. A relative, not ours, seems to feel entitlement. He has stolen too much and we finally have put our foot down.

Am so embarrassed to bother police. They have much more important things to deal with!

[Meddle]

The Michigan Compiled Laws have nothing to say about this, so it's done by local ordinance.

My point was that the state law seems to nullify any such local ordinances.

[JBMcB]

My point was that the state law seems to nullify any such local ordinances.

Those statutes refer to the state of being drunk, not the act of drinking. In other words, the police can't arrest someone just because they are drunk, unless they are otherwise causing a disturbance.

[detroitsgwenivere]

In the summer, a white DPD car pulled up in front of my boyfriend's neighbors house where 5 or 6 dudes were drinking beer on the front lawn, having a few for the 4th of July. They proceeded to tell them [[quite rudely in fact) that if they didn't take it inside, then everyone would receive a ticket. Three houses away, two guys were blatantly selling rock to a couple in a BMW, and around the corner, John R was in it's full pirate hooker glory.

People always seem to ask what is up with the whole "stop-snitching" mentality. Maybe occurances like this one are part of the problem.

That being said, I've never been stopped on Trumbull for openly drinking, and I've done it more times than I can count. Guess it just depends on where you're doing it