Oakland County Can't Keep Snowy Roads Clear; Blames Budget Cuts

[DetroitDad]

From The Detroit News:

Oakland road boss: We'll review response to storm
Brent O. Bair / Road Commission for Oakland County

There has been a lot of discussion over the last couple days about the condition of roads in Oakland County following Sunday's storm. While we appreciate and share the frustration of motorists, and support the right of citizens to freely express their opinions, unfortunately, some of those opinions were based on incorrect assumptions or on partial information. I'd like to take this opportunity to address some of the concerns that have been raised.

First, a brief explanation of what happened. This was a particularly challenging storm for several reasons. When the storm started, it began with rain and temperatures in the 30s. By late afternoon Sunday, the temperatures were dropping like a stone and the rain had turned to heavy snow.

We had 106 trucks on the road beginning at 2:30 a.m. Sunday when it became apparent the snow was about to hit. Those drivers remained on the road until Sunday night [[16 hours later), when they were required to take a break.

Because of revenue drops, we have nearly 50 fewer plow/salt truck drivers today than in 2007, which meant we had far fewer drivers to hop in the trucks and keep them on the road after the first shift drivers went on break. The decline in revenue has also prevented us from being able to replace our aging trucks as we should have, meaning they began breaking down more frequently under the heavy burden of operating around the clock in extremely harsh conditions.

This situation was made worse by the fact that the temperatures quickly plummeted to between 7 and 9 degrees as the sun went down Sunday evening. This rendered our salt essentially useless. It also caused many of the roads that we had been salting all day — and thus were covered in snow and ice melt by sundown, to quickly refreeze into shimmering sheets of ice. Because the salt would not work, there was nothing we could do to eradicate the ice until Monday morning, when the sun came up and the temperatures rose again.

During the day Monday, we threw all available drivers at the clean-up process, and made great strides. Unfortunately, when the sun went down, the temperatures again dropped to the mid-single digits. This again caused any road that was moist to refreeze. Again, there was nothing we could do about this, due to the temperatures.

Tuesday and Wednesday, during daylight hours, we continued to make great progress on getting the snow and ice cleaned up. Even though we continued to have some re-freeze issues at night, there were fewer problem spots each night.

Could we have handled the storm differently? Frankly, we don't know. While we believe our fleet managers made the best decisions they could with the information and resources available, we will be reviewing our operations to see if we could have made a tweak here or there that might have improved the roads.

Please understand our highest priority is to provide safe roads for motorists. We are 100 percent committed to doing what it takes to ensure we do that, to the degree we can with the recourse available to us.

We have also heard in the wake of this storm that other counties handled this storm better than we did. So, after hearing this comment, we contacted the county road agencies in our surrounding counties.

What we heard from them is that they responded in a very similar manner as we did to the storm, and that they experienced the very same problems. Several even noted that they were hearing from their residents that Oakland County roads were in better shape than the roads in their county.

Another question we have heard frequently is 'why didn't we use sand after the salt stopped working due to the temperatures?' The answer is we did use sand, though we used it sparingly. The problem with sand in urbanized areas is that where there are storm sewers, the sand will clog them, likely leading to flooding when the snow and ice melts.

Additionally, placing sand on paved roads creates another problem: Once the snow and ice melts and the road dries, the sand remains and can actually become a safety hazard itself, because it causes the roads to be slippery. In particular, this can be an issue at intersections when motorists attempt to stop and end up sliding on the sand.

Brent O. Bair is Managing Director for the Road Commission for Oakland County. His office can be reached at [[248) 645-2000.


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101216/...#ixzz18Ko7ANnp

[Original63]

Everything is going according to plan. Lower taxes on those who have the money. Move our now less taxed dollars anywhere but America. Pay for infrastructure of China, Mexico, Asia and anywhere else.

This is the Republican Agenda of shrinking government, tax incentives that bankrupt us and shock that we can't fund our governments local, state or national.

This is what most Michiganders and Americans have voted for so I can't see what the problem is.

Oakland County wanted lower taxes on those who could pay so they could divest from America and are now complaining. This is Hilarious.

[Novine]

Oakland County Road Commission that is. The problem is that the Road Commission's funding is based on gas taxes in an era when people are driving less and the vehicles get more miles per gallon. It also maintains roads throughout the county in communities who could afford to contribute something to road maintenance but don't. Most cities supplement their gas tax revenues with property taxes for road maintenance. But in the townships, no more than a few do the same, leaving the Road Commission with a huge sprawl-induced network of roads to maintain and declining revenue sources to maintain them.

[JBMcB]

This is the Republican Agenda of shrinking government

Republicans shrinking government? Are you kidding?

Oakland County wanted lower taxes on those who could pay so they could divest from America and are now complaining. This is Hilarious.

So Oakland county lowered their property taxes? Are you talking about the county government, or the people who live in Oakland county, or L. Brooks Patterson?

[Don K]

I live in Oakland and am retired, so I don't have to put up with rush hour, but I'll testify that it took a while for RCOC to catch up. Monday afternoon Telegraph was really nasty, but by Tuesday it was in good shape. Also, by Tuesday, 12 Mile in Southfield and Farmington Hills were fine, as was Farmington Road in FH, but it deteriorated as soon as it crossed 14 Mile into West Bloomfield. It wasn't until Wednesday that West Bloomfield had things under control.

This storm probably was the worst case for road clearing, so the question goes out which of the counties did the best job of clearing their roads. There have to be some people here who commute down Southfield or Telegraph or 275 across 8 Mile, or on M-59 across Dequindre. Was there a noticeable difference in road conditions among the three counties?

Monday was one of those days I was thankful I don't have to commute anymore. On the other hand, it would have made a great work-at-home day [[thank God for Home Desktop). In any event, I'm glad I don't have to put up with the occasional two-hour commute to get from Lone Pine and Telegraph into Dearborn.

[softailrider]

Big difference I'm seeing is in the neighborhoods, doesn't seem like they're salting the residential side streets like in previous years. I really don't care anyway, my arf doesn't like walking on salted streets.

[citylover]

Regarding you arf............"mushers seccret"............you can get it at a pet supply store or on line works great; not cheap but worth it.

[luckycar]

Hatchery Rd in Waterford was bad on Wed.The salt truck came by 15 min. after I hit black ice on the downhill part of the hill.Its not fun to crash after going sideways.I was just a passenger behind the wheel!

[bartock]

My goodness. Manhattan is on the downswing. Oakland County is awful. Republicans are devils. Detroit is right on the cusp. Nobody has mentioned what a horrible person L Brooks is for wanting to keep the Pistons in the county that elected him.

Wayne and Macomb couldn't keep their roads clear, either.

[DetroitPole]

I do believe Mr. Bair did the best job he could and he offered a sound explination.

However, here is my issue:

On his webpage, yea, maybe two months ago, L. Brooks Patterson posted a tirade extolling the virtures of sprawl and how Oakland County residents enjoy the best living conditions and services in the galaxy.

This situation should give him pause, though I know it won't. We don't need all those roads that now must be salted and plowed, and despite the sprawl that he equates with prosperity, Oakland County is facing serious budget issues and as a result is not able to provide those gold-plated services he boasted of.

Sounds like he's trying to feed everyone a load of shit. If I lived in Oakland County, I'd be pissed at him.

[gazhekwe]

It was really the method we use here, salt, versus the temps in single digits and teens. Salt doesn't work when it gets that cold. As a Yooper, I learned that snowpack is a fact of life in winter. We'd get a layer of sand over the snowpack.and people would use chains sometimes. You just learn how to drive in the stuff. Of course, the traffic was nowhere near like it is here.

[Novine]

Again, Oakland County does not equal Oakland County Road Commission. They are two different organizations. Although I can't say whether Mr. Bair loves sprawl or not, whatever Mr. Patterson says doesn't represent the position of the Road Commission. It should also be noted that whatever Mr. Patterson thinks of sprawl, in his position as OC Executive, he has very little control over growth in the county or the nature of that growth. Sprawl happens because of decision made at the local community level, aided and abetted at times by MDOT and DWSD. If every local community planned and zoned in a non-sprawling way, Mr. Patterson would have no control over that process.

[jackie5275]

Wayne and Macomb couldn't keep their roads clear, either.

I don't know about Macomb as I've never lived there, but Wayne County did a good job as usual. I lived in Oakland for 18 yrs. I've lived in Wayne for 23 yrs. I can see the difference every year. When I lived there, Oakland wouldn't send trucks out until it stopped snowing. Wayne is out there the second they see some flakes. Oakland seems to have only 10 trucks out at a time for the whole county. Wayne has 100 out in comparison. I can drive to my family's house in Waterford from Dearborn and see the difference as soon as I cross 8 Mile. I've been seeing this difference for 30 yrs as when I worked downtown & lived in W. Blmfld., my commute would get worse crossing 8 Mile. I don't know why Oakland can't be as efficient as Wayne, but they can't. After experiencing 30 yrs of driving in the 2 counties, I think they never will.

[English]

From having driven every day in this recent storm, my perception is that all of the counties are hamstrung, but parts of Wayne were actually decent.

[gazhekwe]

Thanks for the tip on Musher's Secret." I am going to try it. That and those Ice cleats for me should greatly improve our walks.

[jcole]

I-75 from downtown to 8 Mile was an absolute joke on Monday night. There were tracks of ice in every lane and traffic was going about 30 miles an hour. Once north of 8 Mile it wasn't perfect but it sure was better than what we just got off of. And 8 Mile was snow covered in both directions from Van Dyke to I75 earlier in the evening.

[Vox]

I don't know about Macomb as I've never lived there, but Wayne County did a good job as usual. I lived in Oakland for 18 yrs. I've lived in Wayne for 23 yrs. I can see the difference every year. When I lived there, Oakland wouldn't send trucks out until it stopped snowing. Wayne is out there the second they see some flakes. Oakland seems to have only 10 trucks out at a time for the whole county. Wayne has 100 out in comparison. I can drive to my family's house in Waterford from Dearborn and see the difference as soon as I cross 8 Mile. I've been seeing this difference for 30 yrs as when I worked downtown & lived in W. Blmfld., my commute would get worse crossing 8 Mile. I don't know why Oakland can't be as efficient as Wayne, but they can't. After experiencing 30 yrs of driving in the 2 counties, I think they never will.

Well I suppose that if running up 90 -110 million deficits is a good thing, then go for it. You gotta figure that if Wayne were ever to do the right thing, sooner or later the inefficiency would be exposed. Yay Wayne!!!!

[DetroitPlanner]

It all goes back to what Novine posted. Gas tax revenues are down and this is what funds transportation in the State. If the political will is not there to keep the roads operating efficiently what does this say about the will to fund public transport?

The issue here is we live in a world where we are taxed on consuption and consumption is used to pay the cost of providing the service. This is known as user fees. We are in an era where more people are either buying fuel efficient vehicles or opting for transit. Both are great things, but our method for financing has not changed. If we go on like this soon it will cost $8 dollars to ride the bus and every street will be riddled with potholes. There will be no money for expanding public transport. Companies will continue to leave our region to locate into areas where these services are provided. Its penny wise, pound foolish.

[Novine]

One assumption that appears in many comments is that the storm impacted all areas equally. My impression from talking to people is that south of 8 Mile didn't get as much snow as north which has a big impact on the response and road conditions. Also, for those cheerleading for Wayne County, I beg to differ from what I've seen on county roads on the west side of the county. I've had bad experiences driving the mile roads in Northville, Plymouth and Canton Townships.

[Kevgoblue]

It seems like for the last few years all we're hearing is excuses as to why the roads are in such terrible shape every time we have more than 2" of snow.

On Monday morning I heard them say on the radio that there was a bunch of Oakland county trucks sitting idle in the yard. Just like in the quoted story, they said it was becuase the drivers had maxed out their hours and were required to go get some sleep. Is it me, or am I missing something? The roads were an ice rink and the trucks were sitting? I guess I'd question why they don't train more people to drive the trucks. They could have a couple people from every department that are qualified and called upon in times of heavy snowfall.
At the end of the day I'm sure it would come down to a fight with the union and "whose job" it was to drive the trucks. Especially since they said the shrinking budget resulted in 50 less drivers. But who cares? [[And what did those 50 people do when it wasn't snowing?) At the end of the day, isn't maintaining safe road conditions the 1st priority?

Everywhere across America businesses are facing tough times and coming up with new ways to get it done with reduced budgets and less people. But from our local government the only result of budget constraints is a reduction in services provided.
I'd sure like to see Brent Bair's goals and objectives in his yearly review. I'd imagine that getting the streets cleared in "X" number of hours has to be on there. Haven't heard a single new and innovative process that the county is implementing to ensure people can get to work the morning after a snowfall without 10% of them ending up in the ditch.
In my opinion, he's failing terribly.

[Novine]

"Is it me, or am I missing something? The roads were an ice rink and the trucks were sitting? I guess I'd question why they don't train more people to drive the trucks."

It's you and you're missing something. Do you drive a large snowplow truck for a living?

[Kevgoblue]

It's you and you're missing something. Do you drive a large snowplow truck for a living?

Nope.

But I can assure you that I am quite trainable. At one time I had never driven a car. At one time I had never driven a stickshift. At one time I had never used a table saw. At one time I had never used an Excel spreadsheet. Shall I continue?

Every year we listen to newscast after newscast telling us what we already know, that the road conditions are bad. But just bitchin about it won't change anything. Gotta come up with an alternative plan.

Any suggestions?

[DetroitPlanner]

Is it me, or am I missing something? The roads were an ice rink and the trucks were sitting? I guess I'd question why they don't train more people to drive the trucks. They could have a couple people from every department that are qualified and called upon in times of heavy snowfall.
At the end of the day I'm sure it would come down to a fight with the union and "whose job" it was to drive the trucks. Especially since they said the shrinking budget resulted in 50 less drivers. But who cares? [[And what did those 50 people do when it wasn't snowing?) At the end of the day, isn't maintaining safe road conditions the 1st priority?

I'd sure like to see Brent Bair's goals and objectives in his yearly review. I'd imagine that getting the streets cleared in "X" number of hours has to be on there.

Its not just the number of drivers that are down, the ability to pay them overtime and the actual number of trucks that are in drivable condition are down as well. You also mentioned that this should be in his review. Well I am sure that keeping the books balanced is important to Brent too. If he ends up on his review having payless paydays for his staff, how would the commissioners view that?

Even if he can get others to drive the trucks. How much would it cost in overtime to get a manager or an engineer to drive a truck compared to a road worker? I am willing to bet the road workers make a lot less than Brent or a Professional Engineer.

Road commissions budgets are nearly all from dollars that are generated by fuel and vehicle registration taxes. These are down sharply. Hundais get better fuel economy than Hummers and cost a heck of a lot less to register. Would you be willing to pay the road commission a couple of mills? This would mean either an increase in your taxes or your rent.

[ja!mz]

he's just positioning his excuse for raising taxes so he can get his budget back to continue skimming...they are doing a half ass job on the roads on purpose in oakland county

[Novine]

"he's just positioning his excuse for raising taxes so he can get his budget back to continue skimming"

Which taxes would those be? I didn't know that RCOC was in any position to raise any taxes.

"But I can assure you that I am quite trainable. At one time I had never driven a car. At one time I had never driven a stickshift. At one time I had never used a table saw. At one time I had never used an Excel spreadsheet. Shall I continue?"

Go on. What point are you trying to make? The people who drive the trucks have to possess a CDL. You just don't allow the accountants or planners drive the trucks. As DetroitPlanner noted, the people driving the trucks are probably making less than a lot of other people who work at RCOC. Your solution is to take the highest paid people and have them work overtime driving trucks for which they are neither trained nor have any experience doing. Sounds like a brilliant plan.