More Catholic parishes in Detroit to close

**rjk** · December-15-10, 12:34 PM

http://detnews.com/article/20101215/...o-be-shuttered

I don't think anyone can be surprised by this with how few parishioners some of these churches have. It's very sad for some of these people who have been attending a church for decades and in some cases all their lives. Here's hoping that the worshipers of the churches that close choose to become a member of a nearby church and strengthen them in the process.

**eastland** · December-15-10, 01:06 PM

The priest at Sts. Peter & Paul Jesuit said their status will be changing -- going from a parish to just a church.

**1KielsonDrive** · December-15-10, 01:19 PM

The archdiocese has to pay back all that money they gave to the pope center in DC, so they're running way short on funds. Part of the center was recently sold to an order of nuns from A2 that was started by Tom Monaghan. Managhan denied he'd assisted them in any way to purchase the center. Who's to believe what? The nuns have it but the archdiocese doesn't? Monaghan has it but the church doesn't?

**mercyme** · December-15-10, 02:03 PM

Christ the King is not in Brightmoor as the article states. Old Redford, close to Rosedale but NOT Brightmoor.

**1953** · December-15-10, 02:03 PM

Why aren't the Jesuits out rounded up converts?

**NorthofNormal** · December-15-10, 03:00 PM

1Kielson, the AoD is backing the PJP2 center's loans. They aren't paying out anything unless the loans are defaulted upon. I don't know the details of the selling price, etc., but the Dominican Sisters may be taking that responsibility over.

**RickBeall** · December-15-10, 03:26 PM

The church is usually the beating heart of the community, and it is usually the last to go. And it is always sad to see them go. Each one is a monument to faith and peoples humanity. It darkens and crumbles, and it picked apart by scrappers. Sad.

DetroitPole · December-15-10, 04:05 PM

They left this:

http://detroit1701.org/Graphics/St.JohnCantiusA.jpg

For this:

http://www.aodonline.org/nr/aod/cust...010DE364035%7d

Ugly as sin.

**p1acebo** · December-15-10, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

They left this:

http://detroit1701.org/Graphics/St.JohnCantiusA.jpg

For this:

http://www.aodonline.org/nr/aod/cust...010DE364035%7d

Ugly as sin.

Oh my god that is a sin, how sad.

**Hypestyles** · December-15-10, 04:14 PM

what about St. Cecilia... didn't the school close down recently?

**1KielsonDrive** · December-15-10, 05:01 PM

St. John Cantius was a dead parish about 40 or more years ago. Most parishioners had moved to the burbs and seldom attended mass there except an occasional sunday or holyday. Father Szygiel [[not sure of the spelling) made the rounds collecting money from people all over everywhere. He tried to shake me down more than a few times. I didn't like the fact he drove Town Cars, ate at topnotch restaurants and drank like a fish - not to mention his constant female companion. I wouldn't have given regardless. If you think about the power of the catholic church back then, the only survivors of the original expansions of the DWSD, as it exercised eminent domain and moved east/northward, were only two entities - St. John's and Joey's Stables. St. John's because of the Archdiocese, St.John's was a cash cow, and Joey's because the pols, judges, cops and priests all hung out there.

**GOAT** · December-15-10, 05:19 PM

According to the edict of pope JPII, each parish must be self-sufficient with regards to money.

Odd though that those who need the church most [[or the neighbourhoods that need them) seem to have the parishes closed while suburban churches are built new. Funny, I didn't read that Jesus said you will be saved in heaven if only you have cash.

Truthfully, I don't know what the answer is but why can't the Vatican open up some of their damn coffers instead of asking the poor for more.

**Pickford-Bentler** · December-15-10, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by mercyme

Christ the King is not in Brightmoor as the article states. Old Redford, close to Rosedale but NOT Brightmoor.

Yea... talk about a newspaper not knowing anything about the city that they are named for. If my memory serves me, Brightmoor has never been a bastion of Papists.

On a serious note, Father Clore said the mass for my mother's funeral.

On another topic altogether, the Christ the King church paper had an interesting article about the Black Legion burning a cross on the corner Burt Road and Grand River to protest the construction of the original church.

There is a lot of history in those buildings and it would hurt to see them fall into distemper.

**DetroiterOnTheWestCoast** · December-15-10, 05:56 PM

Hey, those sex abuse settlements cost big bucks. Gotta cut back somewhere.

**Carey** · December-15-10, 06:30 PM

Does anyone really believe the closing of churches in Detroit are related to sex-abuse settlements or Cardinal Maida's bad decision to invest in that ill-conceived Pope John Paul Center in DC?

Sad as it is for Catholics, the closings are pretty simple to explain, unless I'm missing something: Most of the region's Catholics don't live in Detroit, and haven't lived within the city limits for many years.* What did Sugrue write in "Origins of the Urban Crisis:" Something like Catholics made up about 60 percent of the city in the 1950s and even a larger percentage of the white population. That's an amazing stat, and I know at its peak in the 1960s, the number of parishes hit 100-plus. What percentage of the city is Catholic today? I'm guessing about 10-15 percent.

Look at what the Catholics did -- they built essentially a parallel society, and a very extensive one, with its own schools, banking system, hospitals, social welfare organizations, cemeteries, old-folks homes and athletic leagues. It was a pretty amazing chapter of Detroit's history, but it's fading before our eyes. I just don't see a conspiracy.

*The shortage of priests is a reason, too, I realize.

**Corn.Bot** · December-15-10, 07:35 PM

^^ Fading, present tense, should read faded, past tense. In my mind, the Catholic Church began to lose its grip on Detroit when it began consolidating schools in the middle 1960s. My own, Patronage of St. Joseph, lost its high school, which merged with Nativity of Our Lord, whose grammar school moved to PSJ. By 1989, Patronage was de-Catholicked in that first wave [[the first I can recall, anyway) of Catholic church sell-outs/sell-offs. At that point, and I'm not 100% sure of this, no one really fought for the parish because of the imminent City Airport expansion or something like that. The school and gymnasium that were attached to the church were torn down at some point; and the convent is gone, too. Google Earth shows me the rectory is abandoned. The Archdiocese's website gives no information whatsoever on Patronage, except for listing it as closed, as if it never existed, .

At least the main church building is still in use, and the only reason I know that is because GSCC held one of their gatherings in the basement.

I can still picture the priest raising a gold chalice at every Mass... whilst dressed in elaborately-embroidered and embellished gold vestments, surrounded by Italian marble, beautiful angel-and-saint art on the ceiling which as a child I was sure was painted by Michelangelo, awesome stained glass windows... the Church never did skimp on trappings, did it?

**econ expat** · December-15-10, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Carey

Does anyone really believe the closing of churches in Detroit are related to sex-abuse settlements or Cardinal Maida's bad decision to invest in that ill-conceived Pope John Paul Center in DC?

Sad as it is for Catholics, the closings are pretty simple to explain, unless I'm missing something: Most of the region's Catholics don't live in Detroit, and haven't lived within the city limits for many years.* What did Sugrue write in "Origins of the Urban Crisis:" Something like Catholics made up about 60 percent of the city in the 1950s and even a larger percentage of the white population. That's an amazing stat, and I know at its peak in the 1960s, the number of parishes hit 100-plus. What percentage of the city is Catholic today? I'm guessing about 10-15 percent.

Look at what the Catholics did -- they built essentially a parallel society, and a very extensive one, with its own schools, banking system, hospitals, social welfare organizations, cemeteries, old-folks homes and athletic leagues. It was a pretty amazing chapter of Detroit's history, but it's fading before our eyes. I just don't see a conspiracy.

*The shortage of priests is a reason, too, I realize.

Just outside of Detroit city limits, but an example:
Redford Twp- in the 50's, 60's families sacrificed, donated more than a tithe, built a Church, Grade School, High School, etc, over 15 years. By late 1990's, school enrollment dropped, baby boom was over. Parents of HS students wanted to keep the High School open. The Archdiocese agreed to lend them a million or so, $$$ that there was no way the parish could repay. About 5 years later, the debt was called in. "Well, you're in debt and cannot repay the loan, so you must close" Closed for a million in debt. Then listed for sale for 5 million. And sold to a charter school group. Probably a bargain price. Ellis Academy- connected to Greater Grace. They bought the old Edgewater Park, Rogell Golf Course, and then that parish. All with little publicity, little back room deals?

**Nick** · December-15-10, 08:08 PM

I always thought someone could do a wonderful thesis on the battles over local parish control and the archdiocese. I know a fellow in his late 80s who has some wonderful and amazing stories about the corrupt politics within the archdiocese and the efforts of some parishes to fight to against it.

**SWMAP** · December-15-10, 09:56 PM

Catholic school buildings belong to the Parish that built them. The parish is responsible entirely to run the school and if enrollment & tuitions fall too far & permission is given to close the school, then the parish decides what to do with it's building. It can be sold, leased to another enterprise such as a charter school, torn down,etc. So when St Agatha school was leased to a charter the parish got the rents, not the AOD.
If a parish closes entirely and the AOD is able to sell the buildings, then the AOD gets the money - always pennies on the dollar to what was lent by the other parishes over the years.

**econ expat** · December-16-10, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Catholic school buildings belong to the Parish that built them. The parish is responsible entirely to run the school and if enrollment & tuitions fall too far & permission is given to close the school, then the parish decides what to do with it's building. It can be sold, leased to another enterprise such as a charter school, torn down,etc. So when St Agatha school was leased to a charter the parish got the rents, not the AOD.
If a parish closes entirely and the AOD is able to sell the buildings, then the AOD gets the money - always pennies on the dollar to what was lent by the other parishes over the years.

Things are not always as they appear.....
St. Agatha's parish council was challenged by AOD to balance their budget. Impossible, due to the debt obligations from final years of the High School.
At no time did St. Agatha parish lease the school to a charter. The school was leased AFTER the parish was closed.
In fact, the parish council solicited bids to rent out the school to help pay the utilities and debts. Approval by AOD was required and all proposals/ bids were rejected. Including a bid by the charter group now there. AOD rented to them anyway, but after AOD closed the parish.
Shortage of priests, agreed. Too many Catholic churches in Redford [[6 at the time)- also true.
That parish had far less members than peak baby boom years, but still had 3 masses each weekend to the end. And the last pastor was burdened with the pressure to balance the budget, pay all the debts, etc. Almost a set-up. He quit, is no longer a parish priest. And did not quit to marry, just to quit working for AOD and to switch careers.
Inevitable that some churches must close. AOD has tried to close the parishes with the most valuable real estate first. And left some of the less desirable locations as open parishes, to fend for themselves as long as possible.
BTW- AOD web site lists several parish buildings- schools, rectories, convents for lease. Contact is usually through the parish. But approval by AOD is required.

**sumas** · December-16-10, 05:56 AM

Weighing in on a difficult subject.

Churches should not be profit centers.

**SWMAP** · December-16-10, 08:35 AM

Right, Sumas. But if you were working as a teacher at a small failing school that had no money at all for new books or equipment and not enough income to pay the teachers social security and salaries are forever frozen bec parish dwindling and most students not Catholic but kids looking for a safe school and a discount on tuition [[or never pay it all because the Church is rich and the school already has had to borrow 1mi from the other parishes and no hope of paying it back after 5 years, what would you do? A reasonable person would say that school should close. The kids will be alright - they can go to a Charter.

**Danny** · December-16-10, 09:05 AM

When people leave Detroit,they leave their holy places behind. Even the Historic St. Albertus is left behind. Shame on us.

**rjk** · December-16-10, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by GOAT

Odd though that those who need the church most [[or the neighbourhoods that need them) seem to have the parishes closed while suburban churches are built new. Funny, I didn't read that Jesus said you will be saved in heaven if only you have cash.

As one example do the people who need the church the most need two churches that are 2/10ths of a mile apart which is the case with St. Joesphat and Sweetest Heart of Mary? I attended mass at St. Joesphat a few months ago and I don't think there were 25 people for that mass.

I've often wondered how some of these churches survive as long as they have with with so few people attending mass.
It's not like these churches have experienced a very slight dip in attendence and the AOD is quickly pulling the plug on them. Some of these churches have been struggling for a long time.

Also Catholic charities will continue to play a vital role in Detroit as it has for a long time. Catholic charities has been a very good friend to Detroit even when most Catholics have left the city. It's foolish to say the the Catholic church is abandoning the city whenever churches must be closed.

**GOAT** · December-16-10, 09:37 AM

I don't disagree rjk. But that doesn't mean all of the church closings that have happened in the last several years in many cities is the result of 2 churches being 2/10ths of a mile away from each other.
There was talk a few years ago of putting Assumption Church in Windsor on the "to close list" and we were able to convince the diocese otherwise. The closing of that church would have had a profoundly negative impact on the poor area that it serves. It is bad enough the Catholic school is closing [[the diocese has nothing to do with schools in Ontario on whether they close are not).