WDIV story on Woodward Project

**Believer** · December-14-10, 01:04 AM

WDIV did a story on the Woodward Project, an initiative to promote the Woodward corridor between Downtown and Birmingham as our urban core.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/26071878/index.html

On another post Lowell made the point that the suburbs are really just another part of the city -- that is, that the arbitrary political boundaries that divide us are just that: arbitrary.

This is exactly the point of the Woodward Project. If you ignore these arbitrary boundaries and instead focus on real walkable neighborhoods along Woodward, you see that we in fact have the makings of a great American city.

We need to think holistically about our region, developing places like Ferndale and Royal Oak in concert with the core of the traditional city. When we stop thinking of these places as competing in a zero sum game, we start the process of building an internationally competitive urban environment, albeit one that is half in Oakland County and half in the city of Detroit.

**rhythmc** · December-14-10, 10:14 AM

I couldn't agree more.

**Parkguy** · December-14-10, 12:48 PM

He makes excellent points. If only someone would listen.

**Hypestyles** · December-14-10, 02:48 PM

hopefully the Woodward project will get legs.. and continue with grassroots support..

**casscorridor** · December-14-10, 05:30 PM

Developing and connecting the Woodward corridor suburbs to the central city makes sense, and I like the fostering of regional unity and identity but I wouldn't call it the core of the metro area. Greater downtown Detroit is the historic core and always will be.

There are other important areas outside of the true core, such as Dearborn or Southfield, which are bigger destinations than the Woodward suburbs, why not connect them too? I see that Royal Oak/Ferndale is more walkable than Southfield but what makes them more so than Dearborn? I don't see any difference, other than that one is considered trendy and the other is not. There is precieved urbanity, when in reality everyone drives and the only places that are actually walkable are the small downtown areas.

Most of Detroit isn't that much different than Dearborn or Royal Oak but the core of the city is. There is still a higher diversity of housing types, and all the major bus routes, railways and freeways lead into the core. But much more important than that is that there are many empty lots on which to build dense housing whereas in Dearborn or Royal Oak every lot is filled with a single family house. This fact, coupled with concentration of major institutions and employers in greater Downtown makes this the best logical place to develop a dense urban area, the only logical place to call the core.

Woodward suburbs could see a boost in development, and become slightly more urban and city-oriented, as it can feed off activity in the true core of the region. But I wouldn't call them part of the "core" of the region.

**canuck** · December-14-10, 05:57 PM

Looking at it from the outside for quite some time and evaluating comments from people on this forum, I am convinced that this is a regional problem and will be solved by cooperative motion.
I am also convinced a massive amount of people need to get involved in the political process to effect change.

**southen** · December-14-10, 05:59 PM

when you look at what a hassle it is for this region to come together on anything woodward makes the most sense. you have one wide boulevard that would be great for light rail which in my mind makes or breaks this idea. light rail on its own spurs development, add in the fact that cities like royal oak and birmingham have shifted their focus in recent years to becoming more urban, it makes sense to start here. i think the communities along woodward would be more willing to participate as well. the mayor of ferndale has said many times that he wants light rail.

dearborn is walkable, but you want to link many communities with potential. i think a future line to dearborn would be great, but woodward is ready now for it and it would have a much bigger impact. southfield is isolated and i would equate it to saying troy should get some attention. some places are already urban or are pushing that way, an idea like this helps those places and the fact they all share something in common like woodward makes the idea that much more achievable.

**Dan** · December-14-10, 06:11 PM

Pontiac could use the help too, why not take it all the way.

**socks_mahoney** · December-14-10, 06:19 PM

At the end he sums up the report by saying something along the lines of "should metro Detroit work to bring more businesses to the area or to make itself more walkable?"

I don't really understand this statement. It actually made me laugh when he said it. I thought the point of the report was that these two things were intertwined. This is a totally false duality, obviously working towards these goals is NOT mutually exclusive. Young people are the drivers of growth/decline. Did this reporter really learn nothing from his own report?

**majohnson** · December-14-10, 08:46 PM

Who supplied the joints and blinders for the dreamers who put the video together?

"Step two: make Woodward more urban and attractive. Woodward Ave. itself is not very walkable."
"Solution: Higher density. Frame the street with higher buildings."

And the business case for tall buildings along Woodward?
How many residents/ business occupants are required within one mile of either side of Woodward to make this project work?
Four story apartments and offices require four times the occupants.
Metro Detroit should abandon what areas to make this happen?
Or are people supposed to move from across the Midwest to Metro Detroit?

The video is a joke.

Couples looking to buy homes look at home prices, school reputation, crime rates, and general cultural feel.
Royal Oak and Ferndale are winning right now, not too hot and not too cold.
Fear of crime is holding Detroit back. Normal growth rates are "holding back" some inner ring Woodward corridor suburbs, not a lack of "tall buildings".

I enjoy this site but the 'build a coffee shop' or 'make it walkable' solutions are crazy and miss the point.
There is no business case for coffee shops where a large percentage of people can not read. Coffee shops make a significant portion of there money from people hanging out from 7pm to 10pm. Many of the places 'in need of a coffee shop' have crime rates or trickle customer rates that can not support a second shift of coffee shop workers. The Starbucks in Royal Oak is often used as a warming/cooling station by the homeless, but the ratio of traditional customers to homeless supports the business, along with people associating individual Starbucks with the brand and thus disregarding the presence of one or two homeless. This does not hold in Detroit.

Honestly, many of the suburbs are more sustainable than the city and have the same level of urban building stock as most of the city, but without the same level of blight and crime.
The economy should address wants and needs.
DPS students should have vocational training teaching them to address blight [[crime fighting/ and injuries are best left to cops) and home remodeling. City owned properties in NSP areas could be remodeled by DPS students and resold for below market rates. A ten thousand dollar home with a few additional education dollars poured into it makes a difference. Also, DPS would be producing future residents with the skills required to address a major problem, housing blight. Pride in each's property and meaningful employment [[the students would have actual skills upon graduation) would have an effect on unemployment among criminal aged residents.
That is a plan that could incorporate real world accounting, building, purchasing, design, etc. skills.

I am long winded, but I am done for now.

**canuck** · December-14-10, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by majohnson

Who supplied the joints and blinders for the dreamers who put the video together?

"Step two: make Woodward more urban and attractive. Woodward Ave. itself is not very walkable."
"Solution: Higher density. Frame the street with higher buildings."

And the business case for tall buildings along Woodward?
How many residents/ business occupants are required within one mile of either side of Woodward to make this project work?
Four story apartments and offices require four times the occupants.
Metro Detroit should abandon what areas to make this happen?
Or are people supposed to move from across the Midwest to Metro Detroit?

The video is a joke.

Couples looking to buy homes look at home prices, school reputation, crime rates, and general cultural feel.
Royal Oak and Ferndale are winning right now, not too hot and not too cold.
Fear of crime is holding Detroit back. Normal growth rates are "holding back" some inner ring Woodward corridor suburbs, not a lack of "tall buildings".

I enjoy this site but the 'build a coffee shop' or 'make it walkable' solutions are crazy and miss the point.
There is no business case for coffee shops where a large percentage of people can not read. Coffee shops make a significant portion of there money from people hanging out from 7pm to 10pm. Many of the places 'in need of a coffee shop' have crime rates or trickle customer rates that can not support a second shift of coffee shop workers. The Starbucks in Royal Oak is often used as a warming/cooling station by the homeless, but the ratio of traditional customers to homeless supports the business, along with people associating individual Starbucks with the brand and thus disregarding the presence of one or two homeless. This does not hold in Detroit.

Honestly, many of the suburbs are more sustainable than the city and have the same level of urban building stock as most of the city, but without the same level of blight and crime.
The economy should address wants and needs.
DPS students should have vocational training teaching them to address blight [[crime fighting/ and injuries are best left to cops) and home remodeling. City owned properties in NSP areas could be remodeled by DPS students and resold for below market rates. A ten thousand dollar home with a few additional education dollars poured into it makes a difference. Also, DPS would be producing future residents with the skills required to address a major problem, housing blight. Pride in each's property and meaningful employment [[the students would have actual skills upon graduation) would have an effect on unemployment among criminal aged residents.
That is a plan that could incorporate real world accounting, building, purchasing, design, etc. skills.

I am long winded, but I am done for now.

Good post,

You are right about the dreaming part being somewhat in the way of sound decisions sometimes. There is a lot of truth in the notion that Woodward along its length is not a very walkable street. These and other features of Detroit make it a tough project to rehab. The crime issues are not the least. But I especially like that you bring ideas for solving the rehabilitation and in particular the involvement of young people in learning a trade in construction. They will be less susceptible to breaking and burning or not so oblivious to the destruction around their neighborhoods. Cities are for people, not the other way around. You can care so much about the built environment but if folks are left out of the equation, if they learn that they dont need to contribute, that they are not worth involving, then the mess continues. So yes, the kids need to get in there with varying levels of training and enjoy their accomplishments. And not enough emphasis is on handiwork in schools these days.

**iheartthed** · December-14-10, 10:30 PM

The flaw of this project is that you have to get every single municipality along this corridor to be on the same page about every little detail. They will all have to enact identical zoning laws, speed limits [[this should be the easy part since Woodward is a state road), etc. And since Michigan is home rule, at any time any one of them could decide to pull out of the compact and disrupt the cooperation [[see Livonia and SMART). Metro Detroit has yet to create a regional transit authority, which every other city on the face of the planet has already done, so good luck on that.

It is an interesting idea, but I don't think it's more viable than say focusing on zoning and development within Detroit city limits along Wooward... which would be about half the length of the corridor anyway.

**Red Devil** · December-15-10, 02:53 AM

Since Detroit is so burnt out, widen Woodward and make it like the Champs-Elysees with mid rise luxury condos, 2 Starbucks on every block, trendy restaurants, a W hotel, and boutiques. Oh, and a sports arena. Young people would come in droves to live in Detroit. Make Oakland County pay for it, perhaps with an unsustainability tax.

**Russix** · December-15-10, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by socks_mahoney

At the end he sums up the report by saying something along the lines of "should metro Detroit work to bring more businesses to the area or to make itself more walkable?"

I don't really understand this statement. It actually made me laugh when he said it. I thought the point of the report was that these two things were intertwined. This is a totally false duality, obviously working towards these goals is NOT mutually exclusive. Young people are the drivers of growth/decline. Did this reporter really learn nothing from his own report?

There are two schools of thought toward economic development. He merely stated them both. Do you focus solely on attracting businesses, or do you focus on attracting people? The reporter then finalized his statement by referencing the interviewee's opinion that there both intertwined.