ModelD's Showdown in Motown: Vince v. Phil

[Gannon]

[[my blatant off-the-cuff commentary will be in italics throughout, hopefully)

Tonight at Cliff Bells, ModelD Media presented, or should I say instigated, a public version of dialogue which apparently has been happening for some time between Vince Keenan and Phil Cooley regarding the potential for successful progress throughout the city. Enough of the shakers and movers in town have heard them 'go at it', and agreed they needed microphones with an amp that goes to eleven.

Ya know, so more people could hear them.

[[Banks of harsh spotlights, too!)

In the spirit of Field of Dreams, they built this discussion...and indeed the crowd came. Enough to fill Cliff Bells seemingly to capacity, although I was unable to find the required Fire Department signage which is supposed to publicly announce how many bodies the Marshall believes should legally fit into a space. Got confirmation from the wonderful registering folk that they had somewhere between 175 and 200 people...which matched my rough estimate, counted from down in the front row.

Phil is the co-owner of the increasingly famous and uber-profitable Slow's restaurant, and Vince founded and heads a non-profit media watchdog and public information activist group called Publius. I've crossed paths with Phil, mostly socially, and met Vince during the first weekend of public participation for the revision of the City Charter. Both are solid and honest fellows. Passionate and funny, to boot.

The discussion was sold as...well, let's let the ModelD announcement tell it:

From art and entrepreneurship to community development, creative grassroots projects are multiplying in Detroit -- often outside of traditional modes of municipal function. The national media has taken notice, elevating profiles of emerging leaders and shifting the dialogue from the "Tragedy of Detroit" to opportunity and innovation here. But is this creative energy sustainable in a city with larger systemic challenges? What is the responsibility of "doers" who have built influence in elevating the next generation of Phil Cooleys and Torya Blanchards? How can we create a Detroit that works for all?

Join us for a conversation with media darling Phillip Cooley and media watchdog Vince Keenan, two residents of Corktown with different takes on the rising influence of new voices in the city and how they're changing the narrative and landscape.

Phil opened with the observation that we enjoy a much lower 'barrier to entry' for new businesses than most major metropolitan areas [[if not the lowest), so there is a greater potential for opportunity. Surely this is the case, especially now that the previous bozo-in-charge and his minions are not adding 20-30% to the top-line of any project large enough to warrant City Council or DEGC/DDA approval, and we're at least not hearing the question posed of how many people involved 'look like' those on City Council.

But he didn't exactly go into detail on the costs of continuing business in this town, which involves little things like taxes and insurance. Nobody called out the weird 'personal property' tax on items of decor inside the business, annually forcing businesspeople to account for the value of stuff hanging on their walls. Matter of fact, until Vince finally made an offhand remark about it, the outrageous cost of insurance was a topic very obviously ignored or danced around.

Vince added that the abundance of love is an asset, those who come here and those who stay love this town. He very poignantly added one of the key quotes of the evening, "They bred out of me any expectation of return for my love." I never thought of Detroit as a huge unrequited-lovefest one-way orgy, but damned if I didn't find myself agreeing with him forcefully.

He added that Detroit is the greatest laboratory for experimental thinking on monumental problems plaguing humankind..."if you can solve it here, you can solve it anywhere". I cannot dredge up any argument against that, either.


So far, so good. But it was early!


Phil brought up the concept of what he called the 'triple bottom line' of social, environmental, and then the more commonly considered economic. This really got my attention, since I've been trying to wrap my noggin around a concept which I've been stewing and brewing for many years...adapting the best of corporate capitalism while eliminating the worst into what I've called Socio-Capitalism...of which many seem to jump to incorrect conclusions, since it contains a form of the economic boogeyman term "Socialism".

Phil's "triple bottom-line" avoids such semantic stumbling stones.

There was some discussion about how 'rational' it was to open a business in the city, and darling Claire of The Bureau of Urban Living was held forth as the potential irrational one. We needed a convenient example, and she WAS sitting demurely on stage right. They pondered if it was 'sound business' to do anything in the city, or better to just make the jump to Ferndale. It was noted that since BEING in the city was one of the reasons, if not THE foundational motivation, she had to even put forth this gargantuan effort in Midtown...there could BE no statistical analysis comparison between the city and anywhere.

Vince countered that since small businesses all pay exorbitant taxes, they might at some point require the city step up and actually deliver services to them, instead of merely milking them because they cannot afford the political donations and lawyers of the largest businesspeople in town [[that seem to allow the likes of Illitch and Maroun to escape enforcement of basic laws and general ethics). He made honest mention that ALL in the room were concerned about whether their cars would be in place at the end of the meetup...and made allusions to issues around the Corktown area of Michigan Avenue near 14th street. I flinched, remembering MY break-in and theft of a toolbox and an irreplaceable audio room-measurement device, two blocks away from Cliff Bells last year. I'd bet if he asked for a show of hands who was a relatively recent victim of crime in the city, he'd have felt the BREEZE from the hands rushing up.

Oddly, Phil countered that he doesn't want Detroit to devolve into a "police state", and if I hadn't had a decent grip on my chair...I would've been looking up from the floor after a bounce or two. But his idea of 'occupying the city', even to the point of filling not-yet-utilized investment property with low-rent artist space in order to have warm bodies in the joints [[instead of leaving them empty and probable fodder for scrappers and worse), is at least approachable, considerable. Until, of course, one figures in the increasingly-bold but random home invasion, burglaries, and assaults...then it seems the fodder goes from mere property to relatively-innocent-to-the-city carbon-based lifeforms. [[Hipsters ARE carbon-based, still, right?! The ones I know seem more cheap beer and expensive weed based sleep deprivation experiments-in-progress, but I digress.)

Phil called it a 'necessary experiment', and I DO agree...but with reservation. He amplified it by saying, "Let's get everyone in the city to think like us." Later on, he admitted his pollyannish and somewhat naive attitude, but nobody can argue that it hasn't worked for him so far in life. I'm solidly on the side of pollyannas worldwide, so...if we're keeping score...I'd give this one a plus one.

There was some discussion of polling the city population about the impediments of starting businesses...but I stopped at wondering IF most of the city knew the definition of the term 'impediment'.


Sprinkled throughout were spacklings of the R word...which I thought broad-based a bit...especially when Phil said outright that the closings of the city's Starbucks was racist. They got on that topic while jokingly challenging the Time magazine staff writer who would drive from Indian Village to Grosse Pointe to get his coffee every day.

I'm more than sure he is totally off on this, and NOT because he was using the word [[and concept) I want removed from our lexicon as we shape our new reality. Starbucks closed stores nationwide based upon revenue when their previous CEO returned to the helm.

At that point, since race was brought up...I decided to take a gander about the roomful of people. From my vantage point I could only see three non-white individuals...afterward I saw three more. OUT OF TWO HUNDRED OR SO PEOPLE! [[in an 85% majority black city governed almost completely by non-whites)

Yeah, then I got my usual alarm from being in a group largely assembled of people who look like me, which I've been reminded makes me shallow. And racist, I guess. Is there an internal racism and an external one?!

Phil then went on to say something that made me wonder if he TRULY believes the Kwhyme administration was a short-lived fluke in city politics. I'm sure I zoned out for a moment in shock, because my notes continued with the quote of the night, delivered by Vince.

"This is the place you want to be when the world ends--because you might not NOTICE!"

There was some talk of how we could get more done, and if there were a deadline. All agreed that since the Knight Foundation were throwing money our way in an effort at improving things, we'd better get on it and show some progress...because if the only results were political and/or institutional logjamming, these very needed funds would vaporize.

[Gannon]

Vince begged for the city condensation plans, the Detroit Works initiative, to become BIGGER THAN BING. That one is seemingly a no-brainer, but this city filled with storefront 'churches' always appreciates a popular Messiah. Even if the last one got a few of his Magdelenes beaten by his slugger of a wife...and allowed the steady greed-feed mechanism to run amok and get spanked down by the law. Any prosperity Messiah is a good one, I guess.

He also FINALLY brought up the insurance issue, and offered the solution created by a few smaller Canadian towns...who started their OWN city-funded insurance coverage to bring the costs for good civilians down to a reasonable and controllable level. He got a lot of applause for this one, indicating there were more than a few scammed insurance buyers in the crowd. He was basically saying what I've emphasized for YEARS...if those with brains enough to figure out the insurance scam decided to make their official residence IN the city instead...there would be a SURGE in involved and aware voters, responsible citizens. AND, he amplified it by noting they could then become applicants for jobs like the school board, which had TWO write-in candidates win this last election!

Phil claims the city is 'opening up' and more business is being done in neighborhoods FAR away from Corktown, but I suspect HE is the one opening up to them...as he is encouraged to experience and investigate these areas with and for the various thinktank groups he is involved with through the Knight Foundation work and others. I didn't quite get his point on this, so I can only surmise.


There was some discussion of the newly-formed Detroit Soccer league, which now enjoys the participation of 30 neighborhoods. This was shown as an example of unique intra-city communication...bringing together people from portions of the city which would usually not have any proximity. I think this is cool now, and hope it never devolves into something resembling British hooliganism or other national hijinks, there is a limit to the benefits of neighborhood pride. NO, I don't know where it is, but we'll know when we get there!

Conversation returned to how great Detroit was for entrepreneurs, since the sharing and assistance and support from the other business owners was something to be counted on.


Then they got to audience questions, but other than one posed by uber-journalist Jeff Wattrick wondering when those who are creating unique ways of funding and support would finally get pissed at the existing government agencies for only funding projects for connected and politically-contributing individuals, they were snorers, if you could hear them at all...since they never gave a microphone to the questioners. The guys got Jeff's question wrong and only halfway answered it...but the floor was no longer his for a follow-up.


The night's discussion was a nice dance around meaty topics...but the elephants in the room remained conveniently ignored, while the elusive yet omnipresent Racism got the nod of blame. None of the nearly mono-colored group had any substantial answers to that one...proving the path of enforced transcendence of it entirely the only logical path for our nouveau-Detroit to follow.



Overall, the night was a good exercise in fomenting additional dialogue...and revealed two passionate Detroiters who will continue leading their particular charges...one profitable, the other non-profit ON PURPOSE. I expect to see good things as these talks continue, and as the concept and approaches agreed upon gain traction. We shall see. I will try to not miss another of these chats again...although I suspect I'd enjoy the afterhours ones a bit more.


Cheers and thanks for reading this novella. I thought some would enjoy hearing about this meeting...and of course, I had to add my two cents!

[rjlj]

So what was your summary of the dialogue? The sense of your review was a Frazier vs. Ali fight. The tone was divisive and at one point race driven. I really do not understand your contribution.

[Gianni]

Thanks for that report Gannon.

[rbdetsport]

Thanks Gannon!

[Gannon]

The night was BILLED as an opposition...but it was clear these guys agree on more than then differ. Vince is more pragmatist, Phil more dreamer.

As I said, although I know it is buried in 12000 letters [[never knew we had a letter-count limit before!), NOBODY can argue that Phil's dreams don't work. Slow's has been a wild success from the very first year onwards. Wattrick mentioned some figures during the framing of his question [[which would've been WAY more audible if they'd have handed him a microphone) that blew me away.

If anything, I'd say that IF Detroit can continue to attract adventuresome [[read non-standard, non-commercial banking) backing, it will be seen that Phil and his crew did more to encourage "entrepreneurialism" than anything else. Their highly-publicized success, coupled with the bravery and dedication of others like the Bureau of Urban Living, Canine-to-Five, and others...then MAGNIFIED by the same folk's concern and encouragement for others eager to share the same fate [[if you don't already know of Claire and Liz's extraordinary efforts with the Open City initiative)...may certainly be a small-scale entrepreneur turning-point in this biggest of small towns, where everybody knows everybody.


I am like Phil...in the fact that I freely dream of changing the way others approach the same old problems. VINCE, even in his pragmatism...or some would say cynicism, but I saw NONE of that last night...agreed whole-heartedly. At one point, he was basically begging for ALL of the nation's problem solvers to come here and play.



My main critiques of the evening include their common acquiescence to the phenomena called Racism, which to me is one of the WORST agents of division in our existence. I will argue to my last breath that we NEED to agree to ignore it within our circles of influence...literally...if we EVER want to move forward in this town.

Because that is what all of the successful progressive institutions and groups and schools and families DO. They exist together without ANY regard of what the person alongside or across the table from them looks like.

But, in my estimation, the FEAR of crossing that horrible invisible line seems to keep many from daring to accept the FACT that others can exist in a state where race doesn't matter...where a person CAN be judged by their character and not by the color of their skin...and I'd go one further, I'd rather there not be any judging, but cautious open acceptance...gracefully attempting to understand instead of turning our backs when we meet up with the old behavior.


Judgment often carries indictment which sends many back to the OLD paradigm of racism. When someone shows up and behaves the only way they know HOW, it is up to each of us to insist gently that the modern and better way be learned and upheld. Done in love, this has the probability of fomenting healing on an epidemic scale.


As an anecdote to emphasize this...yesterday I was late driving to Kevin Johnson's funeral up in Southfield. I was running out of gas...so I dropped into an unfamiliar gas station on Livernois off the Lodge, dressed to the nines in my Hart, Shaffner, & Marx black pinstripe suit and a tie. When I approached the door, a black man did so on the other side as well. As I always try to do, I opened it first and held it for HIM.

He wouldn't cross the threshold, and we had a little stalemate for a moment. I held my ground, even though I was in a rush. I INSISTED that he go first, and he very graciously accepted...when he realized I wasn't budging! While gassing the car, I realized he was in the vehicle in front of me, so I bid him adieu on the way out and we shared kind words.


But it was a racial knee-jerk. Until the acceptance of the offer of the door, he wouldn't look me in the eye.


Similar, but larger thing happened when I was at Eph's. After lunch rush when I was alone in the joint, an older gentleman reluctantly came in because his grand-daughter [[or son, the child was quite ambiguously dressed and I wasn't asking) was hungry in the middle of their bus transfer wait. He addressed me with as few words as possible, I finally understood what the term tight-lipped meant. He wouldn't even accept a glass of water from me, but bought the child whatever they wanted.

While they were eating, I checked up on them...there were no others in the place...and noticed him finally looking around. When he saw the Atlas sign, he straightened up and very quietly mentioned that he was the first black driver they ever had.

I was floored...and gushed that it was an honor to meet walking history. At that point, the man completely changed character and finally opened up. It was a beautiful moment, and I'm in tears remembering it all.

I faced DOWN racism...not him as racist, rather HIS automatic acceptance of it...perhaps not unlike the man at the gas station. I say it that way because like the other man...he wouldn't make eye contact with me until I said my piece about him being history. He may have been checking to see if I was sincere.



Will I talk about racism? Yes...but ONLY in the past tense. I will NOT give this divisive bullshit ANY MORE POWER to divide and conquer us...and will never stop fighting the 'standard approach' of talking about it as IF it will always be between us all.

Sorry about the many words. I am a story-teller, and can use a thousand words to say something others can fit into a hundred. I cannot think in Haiku...nor executive summaries. TOO MUCH IS LOST when we fail to use enough words to make our point, although I struggle with knowing I lose many just by the length of my postings. I know many don't want to spend the time...and often my main points get lost in the extensive dialogue.



Last night's meeting was good, if a little lily-white or imbalanced with regards to the general racial makeup of this town...which to me indicates a deeper need to reach out and include those who don't believe they are welcome. Phil is a quiet sparkplug, and a fine spokesperson for creative thinking. I found myself laughingly falling in love with Vince's clear attempts at grounding Phil before he floated away. For every dreamer, we NEED people like him who can shake off the fluff...without killing the true substance of the good intentions dreamed up.

When the economy is up, fresh ideas are more easily ignored. Now that we're desperate...funny to think of Detroit as any MORE of that than ever before...it seems concerned groups are finally stepping up to end-run the morass that would previously have aborted the ideas in gestation. Fresh ideas are the new cool.


I am eager to continue this dialogue. I am way better with my fingertips than with my tongue...so this will continue to be my platform. Thanks for reading this, and thank you Lowell for making this happen. I put you in the same camp as Phil and the others, for daring to do something in a way that hasn't been done before.


Cheers and more...DO something today that ends racism whenever it's ugly head pops up.

[DetroitReds]

My main critiques of the evening include their common acquiescence to the phenomena called Racism, which to me is one of the WORST agents of division in our existence. I will argue to my last breath that we NEED to agree to ignore it within our circles of influence...literally...if we EVER want to move forward in this town.

Will I talk about racism? Yes...but ONLY in the past tense. I will NOT give this divisive bullshit ANY MORE POWER to divide and conquer us...and will never stop fighting the 'standard approach' of talking about it as IF it will always be between us all.

Individual acts = prejudice and discrimination. Racism = prejudice+power and is institutional and systemic. Until unjust and racist systems of oppression are fully dismantled in this city, country, and world, we sure as hell need to address the "phenomena" head on.

[Gannon]

Thank you. That semantic game will do NOTHING to cure either. It really serves no purpose except to describe things in past tense, IF we choose to look forward to a time without anything of the sort.

BY CREATING A GROUP WHERE WE DO NOT ALLOW THIS TO TAKE ROOT, our circles of influence will expand and finally chase it away. [[I see this as our ONLY proper path towards a FULL resolution, the approach you mention is played out and has very obviously FAILED!)


Prejudism is merely solo-racism...nothing more, nothing less. Discrimination is when it grows to encompass group behavior. Nothing more, nothing less. IT IS ALL THE SAME DAMN THING AND THERE IS NO GOOD TO COME OUT OF DENYING THAT FACT!

Sorry to scream. Maybe someday people will hear this clearly...

[Gannon]

Dictionary.com would like to argue with you. I'll let them.

rac·ism
/ˈreɪsɪzəm/
–noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Origin: 1865–70; < F racisme. See race2 , -ismrace or other races.






What say ye know?!

[Gannon]

I would like to add ONE word to that definition as well.

3. hatred or intolerance or indifference to another race or races.



A wise man once said the opposite of love is not hate, it is indifference.

[Gannon]

Odd to recognize that the CONCEPT or term for this didn't even arrive in our lexicon until the French made it up in...1865...only a few short years after the Gettysburg Address, when apparently Lincoln's learning curve discovered the same.

I believe it is spiritual in nature...and what we experience is merely echoes of the entirety of this truly ugly and inhumane horror.

[DetroitPlanner]

Starbucks is racist? Is that why Magic Johnson closed all those Starbucks? Could it be that their coffee is just tastes terrible to the average Detroiter's palate who generally drink thier coffee not swimming in cream and sugar? I've never had a cup of Starbucks that has not tasted like it was burned, so I always assumed it was made that way for those who use healthy amounts of cream and sugar.

[Gannon]

Thanks 'Planner, I wasn't SURE they were all Mr. Johnson's...but I knew that one on Jefferson was. Tell that to Phil [[and his over-generous use of the descriptor) next time you're enjoying your next Reason or rib plate at Slow's!!

[Gannon]

ACTUALLY, instead of hammering Phil on his misunderstanding...I'd really like to use this as an example WHY I'd like to retire the term...since it is usually SO grossly misunderstood...and too easily used as a weapon against others improperly.

Plus, actions taken for purely logical reasons can be mistaken for ones done out of spite.

That is a HUGE gap in application...and since so many people are raw with negative emotion over it all...it is best to ignore IT and spend more time with those who may be healed by the sheer presence of those who can represent that which the wounded and otherwise offended previously held in suspicion...or feared...or hated...or worse.


Racism is an evil thing that must be starved to death. Any consideration of it merely feeds the divide. The only way to heal completely is to be totally human with each other, because we all have that in common.


Cheers...

[Zozo]

Nobody called out the weird 'personal property' tax on items of decor inside the business, annually forcing businesspeople to account for the value of stuff hanging on their walls.

There's nothing "weird" about the business personal property tax you are referring to. It is not unique to Detroit, Wayne County, or the State of Michigan. This tax is levied on all businesses in major U.S. cities, including cities in Sunbelt low-tax states like Texas, where taxes across the board are far lower than Michigan.

[Gannon]

They make people PAY for having decorations inside their businesses?!

This is a tax on items already taxed when they were purchased! These businesses have to pay INSURANCE to cover their daring to put these things on display...and then the tax man comes up and spanks them again?!


All THIS law does is create outlaws...'liars' who wisely escape this idiocy via their silence and/or outright obfuscation of the true value of their things.


If I were to open a recording studio...with many hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear and room treatments...I would expect to pay tax on the stuff when it was purchased the first time from a retailer. I would NOT expect to have someone looking at my inventory of equipment every year to then again collect MORE money because I hadn't gotten rid of the stuff or it happened to not be stolen from me.

Do they give money BACK when their failed policing allows rampant crime and the valuable things get STOLEN? I think not.


I know there is supposed to be a use tax on things sold secondhand, but I know of NO-ONE who claims such. I also know of NO-ONE who claims it on new purchases done on-line, indeed that loophole alone has caused many brick-n-mortar stores sales to dry up as individuals sought out the lowest price without concern who they were screwing by doing these unethical practices.


Do you think this form of taxation is legal?! Is it ethical? Is it sound business, or does it force entrepreneurs to only put up fake replicas of antiques, instead of showing the real history?


Do art museums have to pay for their collection the same way?!?



OR is this just another way to get further into the pockets of businesses that are trying their best to survive...while thriving becomes a less achievable goal.



Is it right, just because other governments do it?! OR would the repeal of this tax become a very public invitation for other entrepreneurs to avoid it in other towns?! This COULD become a draw TO the city, if repealed.


Thanks for that feedback. I obviously was unaware of it, and only learned about it when Histeric got hit with the bill for his marvelous collection of Detroit history...and Jerry at the Park had to suffer his.


The loophole is to always have things on loan...and this explains why many bar owners refuse to invest in decent sound and video systems. Maybe leasing is another loophole. I will search them ALL out, because this tax should not be on the books. Period.


Cheers

[Zozo]

Is it right, just because other governments do it?! OR would the repeal of this tax become a very public invitation for other entrepreneurs to avoid it in other towns?! This COULD become a draw TO the city, if repealed.

I think forgiving the business personal property tax liability entirely, or at least for a period of time, would be a great tool to grow entrepreneurship and small business development within Detroit. However, Detroit hasn't dusted off it's tax code in generations, and likely will not as the city is strapped for tax revenue, the leadership is just not that progressive, and a large political constituency, city unions, are against tax regression. So if you buy that expensive audio equipment, and are incorporated, you will have to pay taxes on it. Also expect to pay taxes on any furniture and fixtures, inventory, computers, machinery, vehicles, etc., that your incorporated business owns.

[Gannon]

I now understand why some things are the way they are now, thanks Zozo.

Gosh I LOVE learning new things...even this sorta crap.

So, is the escape avoiding the incorporation...nah...too much personal liability...it would have to be rental/leasing, or buying used and declaring the secondary-market value.

Who would know how much all of this stuff is worth? What IF we made it all ourselves?


I sure can beat a topic to death, but my mind goes into overdrive sometimes.

Cheers

[Crew]

Gannon, The owner of the property pays the personal property tax and that includes equipment leased to another entity. Leases typically include reimbursement for any taxes paid to the local government. For example, my company reimburses Ricoh for taxes they pay to the city of Detroit for copiers we lease from them.

[Gannon]

Thanks Crew. Glad to see you 'round these parts again, it's been a long time.

[JBMcB]

Thanks for the fantastic roundup of the event, Gannon.

As far as 'racism' goes, I agree with you 100% It has become such a charged word, that is is regularly abused by those trying to gain power. It's whatever they define it to be - not supporting a particular party is racist, not backing a candidate is racist, prosecuting corrupt politicians is racist, going to a particular place to buy coffee is racist. Beyond an irrational belief that you are superior to others based on your racial makeup, the word has lost all meaning through dilution, and beyond race-baiting, it's useless to dwell upon.

As far as fixing Detroit, I watched an excellent video explaining how all these regulations and licenses on small business is actually a regressive tax on minorities. It's hard for someone without means to make a living legally, you have to register with multiple state, federal and city agencies. There are permits and licenses and fees and assessments to pay for. I understand there is a lot of under-the-table activity in Detroit, but once you hit a certain success you risk becoming a target by the regulatory agencies.

I like the idea of the business incubator concept writ small. Something like Eastern market, but much more generic. Say, a large warehouse [[empty casino?) or several divided storefronts spread out through the city, with stalls available for rent at a very nominal fee. Included with the fee are all registrations and fees needed to run a business. This would be done, of course, in conjunction with all regulatory and licensing agencies, so they can't come along at a later date and ask for years of back-fees/taxes if a vendor is "too successful."

This would allow local entrepreneurs an opportunity to go legit, sheltered from the multiple risks associated with running an "unauthorized" business.

[Gannon]

Excellent!

[Gannon]

wow, just made it to the ten letter limit with that one...thanks for being more than merely great.

of course, i get hit with the STUPID sixty second rule...I should send Lowell a bill for the accumulation of my waiting times...he doesn't want to know what I charge my clients!

[Gannon]

Jimb, do you have any idea what the name of that documentary/video is? I'd like to add it to my short list to get and watch.

[Fnemecek]

Oddly, Phil countered that he doesn't want Detroit to devolve into a "police state", and if I hadn't had a decent grip on my chair...I would've been looking up from the floor after a bounce or two.

A police state?

It's a long way from "the cops show up when you call them and investigate crimes that are reported to them" to a "police state".

Oh, well - kudos to the folks at Model D. It sounds like this one was almost worth going to.