Cigarette laws in Detroit/Michigan

**jerrytimes** · December-06-10, 11:52 AM

Why don't we start pressuring our lawmakers to stop with these law directed and us Detroiters/Michiganders who might smoke to stop with these laws? I have noticed since the smoking ban that there are some bars in the area that are more hole-in-the-wallish that have lost business since the law was voted in. I'm not a smoker, so this doesn't even affect me, but I don't like the discrimination against people that aren't breaking the law. Smokers get taxed more than any other people in the state. Not only do they get charged monstrous taxes, they are now not allowed to do it anywhere but there how, or where the government makes millions......the casinos. Michigan should pass a law that a business is allowed to have smokers if they please, but have to pay for a permit. This would not only generate more business in some establishments that want to allow it, but it will generate more tax money and sales of a legal product.

It's funny, alcohol is the one vice that kills and injures more Americans and innocent people...yet it's still legal....[[not that I think it shouldn't be). Why is that . Tax revenue, and most people drink. Funny how that works.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 12:01 PM

I would support a smoking permit for bars. Very few would buy it, but we need places to smoke in the winter that are warm. And those fussy nonsmokers would never want to come into those bars anyway. As for the workers, they can work anywhere they want. Nobody is forcing fussy nonsmokers to work in smoky hole-in-the-wall saloons where people smoke, right?

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 12:02 PM

Also, if you ask me: This was never about health in the first place.

**sumas** · December-06-10, 12:07 PM

Thanks Jerry, am a smoker and definantly go out far less. However, plenty of places still allow smoking in defiance of the law. Guess who gets my business.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 12:09 PM

Please, don't let's out the smoking bars. Pretty please.

**Johnlodge** · December-06-10, 12:15 PM

Why don't we start pressuring our lawmakers to stop with these law directed and us Detroiters/Michiganders who might smoke to stop?

Yeah! Er, what?

**jerrytimes** · December-06-10, 12:15 PM

I'm not even a smoker, I quit 9 years ago. I don't get why no one seems to care and that no one brings this up to our lawmakers? This law is illegal! Smokers have rights and businessmen have rights to allow it in their establishments. It's like people are afraid to fight it because there are people that like the law, those same people that love no smoking at the bars because of their health eat fried food and drink at those same bars. What's the difference? Also, it's not about the workers health. That a bunch of BS. They knew that people smoked there going in and they still applied. My job as dangers of other sorts. A guy fell and broke his back a few years ago, yet no law has been passed.

**rjk** · December-06-10, 12:16 PM

I find it ridiculous that you can't smoke in a bar and I've never smoked.

30 years ago, but my high school had a smoking section. You had to be a junior or senior so there were 16 year olds smoking. They ended it when I was there because the schools insurance company put the kabosh on it.

**jerrytimes** · December-06-10, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Johnlodge

Yeah! Er, what?

Sorry, I didn't type that right. I meant to stop with the laws directed only at smokers.

**Johnlodge** · December-06-10, 12:36 PM

I was for the permit idea. Might as well make some more money off the suckers. You really should stop paying mega-conglomerates and the government to kill you, though.

**Gannon** · December-06-10, 12:37 PM

At the very least, any place with proper and separate place for smoking...and ALL outdoor patios...and especially those places which invest in air circulating systems which make smoke go directly UP above the smoker to an intake vent and charcoal air filtering device...all should be able to escape this law.

There should be clear signage for anyone who is allergic or has been hypnotized to stop smoking to avoid even stepping INTO the joints which allow smoking.

In CA, there were a few cool dives that allowed smoking...despite the heavy enforcement. They'd poll everyone at the bar before allowing anyone to light up...at least the ones I knew. Had it happen a bunch of times in San Francisco...but my friend who used to live there had a knack of finding these things, being the lifelong smoker.

I've thought the outdoor patio not being allowed a designated smoking area THE most ridiculous portion of the law...but have enjoyed not smelling like an ash tray for the last year.

Cheers

**Johnnny5** · December-06-10, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

.and ALL outdoor patios..

This is my biggest gripe with the ban, and I don't even smoke. To me the casino exception, and ban for outdoor seating areas proves that it's not just about the health of employees or the patrons.

Mr. Houdini · December-06-10, 12:52 PM

I can't imagine what Gusoline Ally is like these days. That place was always a cloud of smoke.

**Johnlodge** · December-06-10, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Houdini

I can't imagine what Gusoline Ally is like these days. That place was always a cloud of smoke.

My fear is what the place smells like without the smoke to cover up the other odors.

**Lowell** · December-06-10, 01:22 PM

No exceptions and go after a casino ban next. I have absolutely no objection to anyone smoking anything, as long as innocent workers, myself and anyone else who doesn't care to share/be poisoned by their smoke doesn't have to endure it. The public is overwhelmingly in favor of the ban and those who try to nibble at it around the edges will find themselves very disappointed. They law is here to stay and will only grow stronger.

If smoking is that important to a business then let them build heated outdoor shelters for their smokers. They already do sometime similar for other non-toxic odors - they're called restrooms.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

No exceptions and go after a casino ban next. I have absolutely no objection to anyone smoking anything, as long as innocent workers, myself and anyone else who doesn't care to share/be poisoned by their smoke doesn't have to endure it. The public is overwhelmingly in favor of the ban and those who try to nibble at it around the edges will find themselves very disappointed. They law is here to stay and will only grow stronger.

If smoking is that important to a business then let them build heated outdoor shelters for their smokers. They already do sometime similar for other non-toxic odors - they're called restrooms.

Are you seriously equating enjoying a cigarette and a beer with taking a shit on the bar?

**blackmath** · December-06-10, 01:58 PM

For some people, that beer and a cigarette is the only time they get to unwind after a shitty week. Whether or not it is healthy for them should be decided by them, NOT their government. I am all for "smoking allowed" bars, but for some reason the laws that have been handed down are getting more and more draconian and it makes me wonder who is really behind all of these programs.

We're all adults here, so why can't we decide what we want to do as far as this issue is concerned? A simple warning sign - heck, make it a skull and crossbones sign stating "Warning, you are about to enter a smoking establishment" would seem to suffice. Over here in Canada the laws are even more strict and draconian, which, combined with the checkpoint charlie like state of the border has caused a huge decline in the local tourism economy since 2006 when our smoking ban was enacted, yet additional restrictions are on the books now that would ban smoking in public parks. Now, I hate smoke blowing in my face as much as the next guy, but every single time I've asked a smoker to kindly move downwind from me, they've been totally polite and apologetic and have moved to where the smoke wasn't bothering anyone.

Michigan's anti smoking laws are rather lax compared to many places. In California, for instance, you can't even smoke on the beach. How they enforce that I have no idea, but I digress. This is just another case of the government legislating our rights away from us. What would make them stop at smoking? Why not tax junk food to death, and ban fast food and chip commercials? Heart disease is the number one cause of death in North America, so are we going to start putting warning labels on cases of pop?

We put up with enough from our governments, the last thing we need is to be treated like children while they politely fleece us.

**jefferson78** · December-06-10, 02:00 PM

Why do people still insist on bringing up this issue?
Look, it's over. It won't go back to the way it was.
In fact it could get even more restrictive to smoke in public.
So, you could just deal with it, or you can keep on
whining in forums about how mad you are that your supposed
right to pollute the air has been restricted and no one will really care.
Give it up already.

**iheartthed** · December-06-10, 02:04 PM

I can't take my alcoholic beverage outside to avoid smelling like an ashtray, so I have no problem with the law dictating that smokers take their cigarette outside.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by jefferson78

Why do people still insist on bringing up this issue?
Look, it's over. It won't go back to the way it was.
In fact it could get even more restrictive to smoke in public.
So, you could just deal with it, or you can keep on
whining in forums about how mad you are that your supposed
right to pollute the air has been restricted and no one will really care.
Give it up already.

Thanks for elevating the level of debate here.

**Vic01** · December-06-10, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by jerrytimes

Why don't we start pressuring our lawmakers to stop with these law directed and us Detroiters/Michiganders who might smoke to stop with these laws? I have noticed since the smoking ban that there are some bars in the area that are more hole-in-the-wallish that have lost business since the law was voted in. I'm not a smoker, so this doesn't even affect me, but I don't like the discrimination against people that aren't breaking the law. Smokers get taxed more than any other people in the state. Not only do they get charged monstrous taxes, they are now not allowed to do it anywhere but there how, or where the government makes millions......the casinos. Michigan should pass a law that a business is allowed to have smokers if they please, but have to pay for a permit. This would not only generate more business in some establishments that want to allow it, but it will generate more tax money and sales of a legal product.

It's funny, alcohol is the one vice that kills and injures more Americans and innocent people...yet it's still legal....[[not that I think it shouldn't be). Why is that . Tax revenue, and most people drink. Funny how that works.

#1 Quit whining!, the majority of michigan voters put this law on the books, not "lawmakers" - The people want this law, get used to it!
#2 smokers "get charged monstrous taxes"? What a joke! Take a look at what they pay in New York, $12-$14 per pack due to taxes. Many other states are taxed higher than Michigan..., maybe we need to raise the tax to match NY, if you can't afford it... Quit!
#3 We listened to all the crybaby smokers before WE passed this law by a clear majority, do we really need to hear the minority that didn't get their way still whining about it?! Get Over It!!!

**Meddle** · December-06-10, 02:29 PM

There was a new study published last week that drew a direct correlation between second-hand smoke and heart disease in non-smokers, so your claims that it doesn't affect you because you don't smoke are baseless.

This law will help all to breathe more freely.

More restrictive? Yep. I'd ban all public smoking and limit it to inside your own home or vehicle and only when there are no children present. And, yeah, I'd consider smoking around your own children a form of child endangerment.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Vic01

#1 Quit whining!, the majority of michigan voters put this law on the books, not "lawmakers" - The people want this law, get used to it!
#2 smokers "get charged monstrous taxes"? What a joke! Take a look at what they pay in New York, $12-$14 per pack due to taxes. Many other states are taxed higher than Michigan..., maybe we need to raise the tax to match NY, if you can't afford it... Quit!
#3 We listened to all the crybaby smokers before WE passed this law by a clear majority, do we really need to hear the minority that didn't get their way still whining about it?! Get Over It!!!

I love how all you have to do is say that the other side is "whining" -- as if this somehow elevates your level of debate.

If the majority of Michigan voters got exactly what they wanted, without political interference in the process, why did Michigan voters care about the health of workers to ban smoking in workplaces -- with the exception of casinos?

Actually, taxes range pretty high across the board, but Michigan is one of the top ten most expensive states to buy a carton of cigarettes in. Given the state's economic condition, perhaps it is excessive to ask our state's smokers to pay quite so much for the simple pleasure of smoking tobacco.

As for other measures that have passed by a majority, take a look at the Volstead Act. It was passed with a clear majority, and yet it was rescinded after 13 years. After a while, people felt the law was unreasonable, and so it was taken away.

If you want a law that protects workers from smoke, it naturally follows that you'd want a good law that is easy to obey. This law was not a good law.

**Detroitnerd** · December-06-10, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Meddle

There was a new study published last week that drew a direct correlation between second-hand smoke and heart disease in non-smokers, so your claims that it doesn't affect you because you don't smoke are baseless.

This law will help all to breathe more freely.

More restrictive? Yep. I'd ban all public smoking and limit it to inside your own home or vehicle and only when there are no children present.

My country 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of the smoke-free,
Or we'll take your kids.

**Thames** · December-06-10, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Vic01

#1 Quit whining!, the majority of michigan voters put this law on the books, not "lawmakers" - The people want this law, get used to it!
#2 smokers "get charged monstrous taxes"? What a joke! Take a look at what they pay in New York, $12-$14 per pack due to taxes. Many other states are taxed higher than Michigan..., maybe we need to raise the tax to match NY, if you can't afford it... Quit!
#3 We listened to all the crybaby smokers before WE passed this law by a clear majority, do we really need to hear the minority that didn't get their way still whining about it?! Get Over It!!!

What are you talking about? The smoking ban was never on a ballot, the public did not vote on this issue. The "lawmakers" indeed, put this law on the books. GEEZ!