Can Detroit Do This? Beef Up Property Compliace Codes/Penalties

[kathy2trips]

In Knoxville TN they are looking into ways to deal with the problem of blighted properties, and their owers who often [[also) haven't paid their taxes in several years.

$50 dollars per day, per property in non-compliance could add up to a serious revenue bump for Detroit in both in fines and/or in taxes [[finally) paid. Of course, we're talking about 2 different states and the methods to achieve this may differ. Knoxville is trying to do this through the courts. Could we do this in Detroit? SOMETHING has to be done. Thoughts, anyone?

Here's the article about Knoxville's efforts: Officials push to beef up penalties for blighted properties

[johnny1954]

In Knoxville TN they are looking into ways to deal with the problem of blighted properties, and their owers who often [[also) haven't paid their taxes in several years.

$50 dollars per day, per property in non-compliance could add up to a serious revenue bump for Detroit in both in fines and/or in taxes [[finally) paid. Of course, we're talking about 2 different states and the methods to achieve this may differ. Knoxville is trying to do this through the courts. Could we do this in Detroit? SOMETHING has to be done. Thoughts, anyone?

Here's the article about Knoxville's efforts: Officials push to beef up penalties for blighted properties

If the idea did not originate in Detroit, probably not. Ideas or solutions from the outside are not thought of highly by Detroiters.

[reddog289]

IMO, That might be a good deal, If people were held responsible, paid their fines and the money wasn't moved to a mystery account by some corrupt employee.
I can't say too much about "blighted" properties. My backyard has been home to 2 of my brother in laws cars for 2 years and needless to say there will not be a third year.

[Meddle]

Who's going to pay for the Code Enforcement officers and vehicles?

Who's going to follow on the violations and track down the property owners, serve them, get them to court, and follow up later to collect on any judgements?

If an owner-occupant can't afford to keep the place up, or even to feed themselves in some cases, how are they going to afford fines?

[rjk]

How many dilapidated and dangerous properties does the city own? Would they be required to fine themselves? Of course they could always claim stupidity and say they're not sure if they own the property. What judge wouldn't buy a stupidity defense from the city?

And I thought Kym Worthy's go to the PTA meeting or go to jail proposal would be next to impossible to enforce. That would be the equivalent of planning a Sunday picnic compared to this idea.

[sumas]

Detroit does have ordinance officers and an ordinance court. The program operates best where there is a strong neighborhood or business organization. Also it tends to target areas where owners are known and assumed they have the ability to pay. I know of two persons who were fined. One, the house was a serious eye sore, a junk yard would look like a community garden in comparison. The other, the ticket seemed a bit petty Weeds in ally) especially since other home ownners who share the alley were not ticketed with much worse clutter, garbage and the like.

In EEV tickets are issued for parking in the street on garbage day and for not taking Courville containers in.

[sumas]

The funniest story I heard was a judge who admonished a ordinance officer for ticketing a person who had Hostas and daylillys in her alley.

Some years back I was in a focus group that helped write and update the ordinance regulations, like anything else, it's complicated.

[sumas]

I wish the city had not discontinued monthly big trash. The curb scrappers served a useful purpose by picking up lots of stuff that would be recycled, not dumped in landfill and also made some legitimate cash.

[Meddle]

Detroit does have ordinance officers and an ordinance court.

I know they do, but there would have to be a fairly substantial increase in staff to tackle the problem with any fervor.

[sumas]

Meddle, you have shown yourself sensitive to the difficulties. With the first round of implementation, mini city halls were supposed to be deputized to assist area residents with handling citations. That got lost in a morass of legal issues.

Money of course is always the bottom line. I try to focus on area programs that work, to stay positive. See JEBA's website monthly to see what is being done to fight blight. That is just one example of many area / city co operation programs

These ordinances in the past have been used as a political weapon. It is a fine line between personal rights and outright harassment. Witness the Graimark fiasco.

[gazhekwe]

If they won't pay their taxes or take care of their property, what makes anyone think they would pay a fine, no matter how egregious? The property is abandoned, the owner has washed his/her hands of it. Encourage Quit claim deeds to the city so the city can deal with the mess without a legal problem.

[Meddle]

A lot of communities have work-release programs for county jail inmates serving short sentences for non-violent offenses. Then there are the offenders sentenced to X hours of Community Service. These people could be used to clean up properties or help elderly or indigent residents work through ordinance violations. That's how it works in some communities.

In Detroit, I see the city employees' unions screaming foul.

[majohnson]

Few could afford to pay two weeks worth of fines.
Also, how long after notification of the fine would most detroiters need gather the money to fix the problem? Now add $50 a day to it.
Detroit homes are only worth a few thousand and many are struggling simply to pay the standard taxes.
Stop trying to figure out how to get a Detroit government 'revenue bump' from further taxing remaining businesses and residents.
The only relevant revenue increase will come from increased business and new residents to detroit.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Our community's Vacant Property Task Force was starting to make some headway taking over and cleaning up blighted properties in Corktown. Wayne County Nuisance Abatement was our best asset in this regard, before they were defunded. The former dept. head of BS&E, who promised to aid us in in our attempt to clean our neighborhood up, accepted a new position with the Mayor's Strategic Framework team, and she was replaced with an individual who we can't get a phone call returned from. We haven't had a blighted property successfully demoed in months. Lots of hard work slowly going down the drain....

[Det_ard]

A lot of communities have work-release programs for county jail inmates serving short sentences for non-violent offenses. Then there are the offenders sentenced to X hours of Community Service. These people could be used to clean up properties or help elderly or indigent residents work through ordinance violations. That's how it works in some communities.

In Detroit, I see the city employees' unions screaming foul.

As so I.

I've heard about an unofficial 50% unemployment rate in Detroit. Many of the least-skilled complain [[correctly) that there just aren't any jobs out there for them. I look around the city and see an awful of work that needs to be done. Why not figure out a way for idle hands to do useful work. It's not like the chronically unemployed need to spend 40 hours a week filling out apps for non-existent jobs.

I know it will never happen but there's something really dysfunctional about having a massive labor pool and a massive need for house/school/park renovation yet things just deteriorate while people sit around.

[mwilbert]

This wouldn't have to cost that much, as you don't have to do the whole city at once. You target a small area until it is under control. Once it is under control it won't need as much attention and then you can add a bit at a time with the same staff. With blight, you can get into a virtuous circle, as areas with less blight tend to have less additional blight.

As far as hardship to owners who can't afford repairs, I guess I would say that if people can't afford to maintain their property, they can't afford to own it. I don't know if a fine of $50/day is the appropriate amount, but just not enforcing the codes isn't a good way to deal with people who can't afford what they own. You can't enforce anything without some kind of penalty. I'd be fine with allowing for fines to be waived for hardship reasons if the condition is fixed in some reasonable amount of time.

[Fnemecek]

Who's going to pay for the Code Enforcement officers and vehicles?

The City of Detroit.

Who's going to follow on the violations and track down the property owners, serve them, get them to court, and follow up later to collect on any judgments?

The City of Detroit.

If an owner-occupant can't afford to keep the place up, or even to feed themselves in some cases, how are they going to afford fines?

You're assuming that the owners can't afford to keep a place up. I did a title search for the worst properties in the Warrendale neighborhood. Approximately 60% of them are owned by banks and other institutional investors.

Given the volume of problem properties, one code enforcement officer should be able to write approximately $1.25 million - $1.5 million in fines per year.

A code enforcement officer plus a couple of paralegals and an attorney, with everything that they need to do their job, should cost us $175 - $225,000 per year. One would thus only need an 18% collection rate to make the program pay for itself.

Since some many of the offenders have assets that are well into the billions of dollars, an 18% collection rate is extremely doable.

[stasu1213]

In Knoxville TN they are looking into ways to deal with the problem of blighted properties, and their owers who often [[also) haven't paid their taxes in several years.

$50 dollars per day, per property in non-compliance could add up to a serious revenue bump for Detroit in both in fines and/or in taxes [[finally) paid. Of course, we're talking about 2 different states and the methods to achieve this may differ. Knoxville is trying to do this through the courts. Could we do this in Detroit? SOMETHING has to be done. Thoughts, anyone?

Here's the article about Knoxville's efforts: Officials push to beef up penalties for blighted properties

I you could get Matty Moron and other slumlords and blyted property owners out of the back pockets of the political leaders in detroit.

[sumas]

Sheriff's Pride has worked extensively in the city on civic projects.

[sumas]

Oops, forgot, people might not know that Sheriff's Pride is a work release program for non violent offender's.

[sumas]

mwilbert has it right, if people fix/prove fix violations, fees are generally waived.

[Gistok]

As Fnemecek has mentioned a lot of property is now in the hands of banks. And banks are doing a rather piss poor job of maintaining their empty properties.

Also in some of the better neighborhoods of Detroit investors have purchased properties and are renting them out. Renters often don't do well at maintaining the property they are renting... and sadly some of Detroits finer neighborhoods are starting to look rather seedy. I'm already seeing this in Cornerstone Village and East English Village on the far east side.

If the city doesn't act... the remaining middle class neighborhoods of Detroit are going to hell very quickly!!

[Meddle]

If banks or investors own them, go after them with everything possible. Be aggressive.


Take another, more helpful approach for low-income or elderly owner occupants.

[softailrider]

The City of Detroit.



The City of Detroit.



You're assuming that the owners can't afford to keep a place up. I did a title search for the worst properties in the Warrendale neighborhood. Approximately 60% of them are owned by banks and other institutional investors.

Given the volume of problem properties, one code enforcement officer should be able to write approximately $1.25 million - $1.5 million in fines per year.

A code enforcement officer plus a couple of paralegals and an attorney, with everything that they need to do their job, should cost us $175 - $225,000 per year. One would thus only need an 18% collection rate to make the program pay for itself.

Since some many of the offenders have assets that are well into the billions of dollars, an 18% collection rate is extremely doable.

So the city is going to write a bunch of violations and put leins on the properties owned by the banks with hope of collecting. I doubt that would phase them at all - the vast majority of those Warrendale properties aren't going to come back to life, they're too far gone. What you're going to be left with eventually, is a vacant 40 foot residential lot.

[CLAUDE G]

The whole issue with code enforcement is that its not uniform accross the board. I own property in Detroit and we do our best to maintain it. The problem is that every once and a while we will get an inspector out and they will write tickets for every little violation from peeling paint to a broken window. I even had one write me up saying I needed a new roof, yet I have a flat roof and you can't see it from standing on the ground. Did they fly by in a helicoptor?

We will then fix the violations, and usually get the ticket waived.

The problem is that there are many other properties in far worse condition, that they don't write tickets for.

As far as charging $50 per day or whatever, it does absolutly no good except penalize the people who have money to pay it and eventually forces them to close up and move out of the city