Detroit, Population 2,000,000?

**rustic2** · December-03-10, 09:51 PM

I heard once or twice, a few years back, that estimates actually put Detroit's population at 2,000,000 in the early 1950s, a few years after the 1950 Census showed a population of 1,800,000. From there, it started to fall. That would mean Detroit had already lost more than 1,000,000 people some time ago.
Anybody else ever heard anything about this?

**Detroit_uke** · December-04-10, 12:02 AM

Go to www.somacon.com/p469.php

**CLAUDE G** · December-04-10, 03:34 AM

Could you imagine 60 years ago there where twice the number of people in Detroit than there are today.

**shovelhead** · December-04-10, 08:43 AM

And the only "Prairie" was a street on the west side.

**313WX** · December-04-10, 08:59 AM

And all the establishments that we go to the suburbs & shopping malls for today were in storefronts on Mack, Van Dyke, Chene and 12th street?

**Magnatomicflux** · December-04-10, 09:04 AM

And I could look over at your skyline at night and see windows lit......that'd be nice.

Malls piss me off. They've killed Detroit and Windsor's downtowns.

**jcole** · December-04-10, 09:18 AM

And in 1950, Polio was rampant, Jim Crow laws were still enforced as was segragation, the little woman stayed home and raised babies, cancer was a death sentence and infant mortality was over 25 per 1000.
Yay, let's go back to the good old days.

**Magnatomicflux** · December-04-10, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by jcole

And in 1950, Polio was rampant, Jim Crow laws were still enforced as was segragation, the little woman stayed home and raised babies, cancer was a death sentence and infant mortality was over 25 per 1000.
Yay, let's go back to the good old days.

Well............there's not much you can argue with there! LOL!

I guess I was just imagining a bustling, healthy city. Noone has even answered the post yet!

**Gistok** · December-04-10, 05:14 PM

IIRC the 2 million mark was reached briefly in 1954.

**Patrick** · December-04-10, 05:33 PM

Did/does Detroit even have the geographic size and support to support more than 2 million considering the large amount of industrial space within the city limits?

**iheartthed** · December-04-10, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick

Did/does Detroit even have the geographic size and support to support more than 2 million considering the large amount of industrial space within the city limits?

Land area? Of course. Infrastructure? Nope.

**Patrick** · December-04-10, 06:14 PM

Does anyone have an idea of the amount of industrial land space Detroit had during that time....compared to residential space? I was told that industrial space took up 1/4 of the entire 140 some-odd sq. miles at detroit's population height. seems like an awful lot.

**canuck** · December-04-10, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by jcole

And in 1950, Polio was rampant, Jim Crow laws were still enforced as was segragation, the little woman stayed home and raised babies, cancer was a death sentence and infant mortality was over 25 per 1000.
Yay, let's go back to the good old days.

That's something we tend to overlook in our discussions about the past. There certainly is more opportunity on the one hand nowadays for a black male or female than in 1950. There is more now than in 1970; and there will be more opportunities to come in the future in regard to today. The evolution of opportunities for women and minorities say, still has a way to go. Just look at media representation of blacks in the 70's and 80's in sitcoms and advertizing etc... The invisibility factor of blacks in everyday american media. And people wonder how did Detroit become the scarecrow that it is with a black mayors and civic administrations catering to a majority black population.

I cant help but think how many friends were there to help Detroit along among suburban mayors and state representatives during and after mayor Young's tenure. Even mayor Bing now that the sauce has begun to burn at the bottom of the pot from simmering too long has had the help of a minority business status when he operated his steel company. It is pretty clear there is a long way to go before the city and region reach a desirable degree of integration. But it will happen.

**professorscott** · December-04-10, 11:52 PM

It might be worth pointing out that it is impossible to ascertain with certainty whether Detroit actually had a population of 2,000,000 or more. Population experts mostly agree that Detroit hit that mark, as was mentioned earlier, in the mid 1950s, and briefly. But these are based on estimates and other useful but uncertain data. The only reasonably correct estimate of population is the decennial census, and Detroit had 2,000,000 people in neither 1950 or 1960, and certainly not before or since.

I wonder what you all think would be a reasonable population for a prosperous, bustling Detroit we'd all like to see? I suspect most of us would pick a number somewhat less than 2M. Any ideas? With modern infill development, TOD along Woodward and Gratiot, and so forth, what population ought we to be aiming for?

I ask because I have seen the City for decades trying not to lose more population, which reminds me of the "prevent defense" in sports, which I absolutely despise. If you want to win, you can't just try not to lose, you have to try to fucking win. So pick a number, and we'll see what we need to do to get there!

johnny1954 · December-05-10, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by professorscott

It might be worth pointing out that it is impossible to ascertain with certainty whether Detroit actually had a population of 2,000,000 or more. Population experts mostly agree that Detroit hit that mark, as was mentioned earlier, in the mid 1950s, and briefly. But these are based on estimates and other useful but uncertain data. The only reasonably correct estimate of population is the decennial census, and Detroit had 2,000,000 people in neither 1950 or 1960, and certainly not before or since.

I wonder what you all think would be a reasonable population for a prosperous, bustling Detroit we'd all like to see? I suspect most of us would pick a number somewhat less than 2M. Any ideas? With modern infill development, TOD along Woodward and Gratiot, and so forth, what population ought we to be aiming for?

I ask because I have seen the City for decades trying not to lose more population, which reminds me of the "prevent defense" in sports, which I absolutely despise. If you want to win, you can't just try not to lose, you have to try to fucking win. So pick a number, and we'll see what we need to do to get there!

Much of Detroit cannot be used for residential building unless the land is properly remediated due to soil pollution.
Infrastructure costs alone dictate cheaper costs lie well outside of Detroit.
Finally, the crime issue. No one will want to rebuild Detroit until the shootings, carjackings, robberies stop, or least slow down substantially. Hearing gunshots every night tends to scare away prospective buyers.

**Magnatomicflux** · December-05-10, 12:57 AM

Well, I'm glad to see that dickface post after my last has since been removed.

I think 1.5M would be a good number for Detroit. Not tooooooo overcrowded for it's size, but as more and more trickle in setting up shops to fill all those old storefronts/skyscrapers downtown, and all the way along the mains leading out of the core and into the neighbourhoods, bringing jobs back into the city, no matter how small [[mom n pop type stuff), the city population that had stayed and just been morally devestated over the years will have a hopful new outlook. For most, it would be exactly what they were waiting for and they'd run with it. Alot has changed [[and still needs changing) since Detroit fell, and people of all races are perfectly capable of starting and maintaining a buisness, and doing it with incredible success. Not to say they wern't before, they were just never given the oppertunity. Having store after store, occupied by all peoples would go a long way in calming the intense race issue in Detroit. Will it end it? No......those folks will always be out there regardless of race. But until everyone starts working and spending time together, and realizing noone is any different than anyone else, it'll never happen.

I would bet Detroit would turn out just like Toronto.

johnny1954, why not just leave the industrial zones for industry? We'll need that too, people just got to quit all this NIMBY crap and we'll move forward. I don't know why in the 20's it was a selling point to be close to the factory but not any longer. The residential areas of Detroit could handle the infill. Having nice mixtures of single family homes and apartment buildings filling in the areas that used to be just that.

Encourage existing neighbourhoods to work together to clean it up, watch out for eachother and drive the crime out. We all know at least that can happen. Even having a nicely painted home and manicured lawn can inspire the people nextdoor to do the same. And then another and another, eventually noone wants to be the one on the block who's home is in tatters. it spreads from block to block and before you know it, Detroit is looking pretty good to people who have always wanted to live here
And as for the violence, well.........I suppose you have to start somewhere. I would think alot of it is sensless, but alot of it is just desperation, or abandonment of hope. Bring them jobs so they don't have to sling drugs around anymore. Until there's a very real glimmer of hope, there's no reason for them to stop. And if those individuals choose to continue living the way they do, well.....you now have a population that is sick of it [[I know you already are), that won't stand for it being a daily part of life undoing everything they are striving to change. It just won't be accepted as commonplace anymore. You also will have more money for a functioning Police department who will do something about it. If they don't catch them, they can Darwin themselves out of existance.

Did any of that make sense? lol

johnny1954 · December-05-10, 01:24 AM

People do not want to live next to an industrial zone breathing in pollution. Buffer zones must be built into new industrial areas.
Also, how many times do/did you hear gunshots in Toronto at night?
Here in Detroit in any neighborhood you will hear gunshots at night on a daily basis.
Detroit can not be rebuilt until the shooting stops.
Kinda of like trying to rebuild Dresden while the bombing goes on. Got to wait for the bombing to stop inorder to rebuild.

**Magnatomicflux** · December-05-10, 01:45 AM

Actually, Toronto has alot of gun violence. I don't live there, but I'll bet you there are areas that hear it ring out everynight, just like Detroit. It's apples and oranges I know, but with that many people it's going to happen.
You're right about the buffer zones, but people today don't even want to be able to see the factory. They want it outside the city, which makes sense until the city grows out to the factories....then they bitch again. How many times are places supposed to move their operations before they close the doors?

How do you [[not you)stop the violence? What is there to offer the offenders? Do you offer them anything at all? What makes it stop? Just stuff the jails full of them [[we can leave the killers in there), or create jobs and don't discriminate them based on their past? Keep an eye on them for sure, but if they're truly wanting a job to get out of the situation that causes the violence, shouldn't they be given that chance? Isn't that what stops the bombing? How many of these guys get out of jail, only to be denied a real job because of their record and have to revert to the same old story?

**reddog289** · December-05-10, 01:51 AM

I was just counting the number of schools in my 1967/68 Detroit Public School Directory. It numbered 325+. Seeing that number I could see a city with close to 2 million people.
As for people living close to factories. Back in the 20's cars were still a luxury and it was not always possible to use the streetcar. Now there are stricter laws when enforced that could have industry coexisting with residential, As well as agricultural.
Needless to say Close to 2 million or 2 million is 50 plus years past and I belive not likely in the next 50 years.

**Magnatomicflux** · December-05-10, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by reddog289

.
As for people living close to factories. Back in the 20's cars were still a luxury and it was not always possible to use the streetcar. Now there are stricter laws when enforced that could have industry coexisting with residential, As well as agricultural.
.

Ah.....another good point. Thanks.

johnny1954 · December-05-10, 02:00 AM

Not sure what will stop the violence in Detroit. Jobs might help, but during the 1990s-2006 period the violence did not stop even when the economy was huming along.
Detroit is going to need more than its own people to fix this mess. I just do not see the region, state or federal peoples wishing to step foot into the swamp.

johnny1954 · December-05-10, 02:06 AM

Look at this, Toronto is one of the safest cities in North America, homicide rate 3.3 per 100,000 people. Compare this to Detroit: 33.8 per 100,000 people.
Also, Toronto has a very active orgainzed crime life, something which Detroit lost years ago.

I made mention of this interesting observation in another post. Organized crime may be the answer to reducing the overall crime rate.

**dtowncitylover** · December-05-10, 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux

Actually, Toronto has alot of gun violence. I don't live there, but I'll bet you there are areas that hear it ring out everynight, just like Detroit.

Actually no. As someone who went to Toronto almost every summer of his childhood to visit family and continues to go every so often, Toronto and her neighborhoods are very safe. Now crime does happen, but when someone gets shot and injured or killed it's front-page news. There isn't one specific neighborhood where all the crime happens.

**Magnatomicflux** · December-05-10, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by johnny1954

Look at this, Toronto is one of the safest cities in North America, homicide rate 3.3 per 100,000 people. Compare this to Detroit: 33.8 per 100,000 people.
Also, Toronto has a very active orgainzed crime life, something which Detroit lost years ago.

I made mention of this interesting observation in another post. Organized crime may be the answer to reducing the overall crime rate.

Well..........I didn't say they had good aim

**BrushStart** · December-05-10, 02:13 AM

Can anyone recommend any sociological/psychological studies done on violence in Detroit? I'm sure everyone has an opinion- single-parent homes, lack of economic opportunity, drug abuse, lack of pf positive role models, etc. but, I wonder if any researcher has really investigated the causes that have led to this perfect storm of violence. So many of the shootings are unprovoked, and totally senseless. In August, there was a young guy shot and killed for his sunglasses with tons of people around. That is just crazy. I mean, getting robbed is one thing, but what kind of criminal takes that kind of risk to steal a pair of glasses? He's risking a sentence of life without parole for a few hundred dollars. It makes me think that these kinds of offenders not only don't value the lives of others, but also do not value their own. We need to know the causes for this psychological breakdown before the problem can be addressed.