Southfield Freeway to shut down

[Ray1936]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20101...e-for-5-months

Surprised no DYers jumped on this. Sounds like the west side commute is going to be a nightmare next year.

I remember watching the Southfield Freeway being built. Seems like yesterday, even though it was nearly 50 years ago. Nothing is forever, I guess.

[1KielsonDrive]

Good. I agree, rebuid it. Maybe put in a dedicated bike path too on the service drive.
It would be great to ride my bike from 8 Mile to Fairlane mall.

Great idea. Should be included in all road and highway construction. But what's the chance?

[Danny]

Good! It tired of looking those broken down street lights in the service drives.

[R8RBOB]

Yes, it is about time. The Seven Mile bridge needed to be torn down years ago. I will have to live with the pain but I saw a hole in the pavement and the sidewalks are nothing but broken concrete.

[Gannon]

I cannot imagine a greater waste of money than redesigning this freeway.

The figure floated on WDET this morning was in the range of 80 million dollars.

You're right, Ray, it will be a complete mess.


When was the LAST time they did this? Not a rebuild, I know, but when did they completely shut down this freeway for resurfacing?!


Apparently they didn't lay off the DOT's Marquis de Sade...

[kraig]

The bridge/overpass work is long overdue. Better to fix it now than after a collapse.

[kryptonite]

Southfield and service drives are a disaster, I'm going to be significantly impacted by the shut down but to me it' great news. And North of 8 Mile Southfield is a disaster up until north of 10 Mile. Supposedly that is another big project, I'm not holding my breath with all the federal and state money problems.

[DTWflyer]

The section of Southfield Fwy. that is going to close next summer has never been completely rebuilt.

They last rehab'ed the section from the Lodge to McNichols in 1999, but did not rebuild or repave. They brought in grinder and ground off the top of the concrete surface to even out the surface plus rehab'd slabs, median walls, and fixed the highway lighting system.

The section from Michigan Ave - McNichols was rehab'ed during that time and repaved with an asphalt. They just repaved it again this summer.

[Gannon]

Thanks DTWflyer.

I'm wondering how many of the old Roman roads are still in service in Europe. They knew how to build 'em.

Oh, and that one mile of I-375 downtown with the Euro-mix concrete seems to be holding up well.


I still think this is a huge waste of money that we don't have.

[Parkguy]

I went to the public MDOT meeting at Renaissance HS two weeks ago. The project is well-planned, and they have put together a schedule that will allow drivers to make short detours to get around bridge closings. They are closing the freeway totally from June through October for re-building from McNichols to Lodge. The computer modeling showed that there would actually be less of a backup on the Lodge if they close it totally rather than taking it down to one lane. Plus, it would have increased the time for the project to over two years. The bridge work will actually extend from Ford Rd. to Lodge. Bridge demo will be on the weekends only. They will start having public planning meetings for pedestrian overpasses, etc. after January. That will be a further phase of the total project.

[Johnlodge]

Thanks DTWflyer.

I'm wondering how many of the old Roman roads are still in service in Europe. They knew how to build 'em.

I don't think the Romans had a lot of 18 wheelers rumbling up and down their roads all day.

[DetroitPlanner]

I still think this is a huge waste of money that we don't have.

The major issue here is that the dollars for fixing roads are shrinking. Roads and Transit are funded through a per gallon gas tax. It was set at 18 cents federal back in 1994 and 19 cents state in 1998 these rates have not changed even though inflation has takin its toll over the last 15 years. Combine that with the fact that unemployed people do not drive to work, those that are driving have reduced the number of miles driven and traded in thier Hummers for Priuses we are seeing steady decreases in what is available to fix roads. Most cities do not have a property tax millage for roads, and those that do are finding those shrink as well. As folks find it harder to own cars, public transit is showing gains and they are also funded through these same shrinking mechanisms.

The best we can do is try to keep the roads from getting significantly worse under these conditions. There is not enough money to do roads in euro-pave, even though the life-cycle of these treatments make these obvious solutions. Unless more folks are educated about the real cost of transportation, government is forced into applying band-aids to fix problems that require major stitches. The new adminstrations will be even less likely than the current ones to fix the problem. The current fixes of resurfacing things, letting buses fall apart is what happens when politicians try to cut back things for long periods of time.

[Gistok]

As an eastsider... I was always perplexed by the Southfield... I mean it is straight as an arrow, and yet there were still backups in some places where there shouldn't be... But I think that a contributing factor to that is that the Southfield is almost like a roller coaster... it goes up and down every half mile [[unlike I-94). I think that when people are at the top of each half mile of driving... their view of the traffic ahead has a tendency to make people hit their brakes more than they otherwise should. It may explain why there are so many accidents on such a straight piece of roadway. Just my hypothesis....

Mercifully the worst piece of roadway over M-39... is the Paul Street Overpass [[between Ford & Warren). That roadway was an abomination... until the bridge was rebuilt 2-3 years ago.

And what the hell happened to the service drive south of the I-96 interchange?? There are train tracks crossing the freeway... and all of a sudden the service drive sort of ends. Very strange for those not used to the area.

[muskie1]

Yeah, it is an odd stretch of road. Never could figure out why it is so short in length and always has problems. It would make more sense if was continued to 696 but hopefully we have learned our lesson about gutting areas to put a freeway in.

[Gannon]

Paul St. was a place for drag racing until both cities that border it chose to let it decay. Never heard complaints from the neighbors there, it was just something they put up with.

The troubles on the Southfield E-way that you describe are harmonic in nature...you can 'see' the periodic shock waves perpetrated through traffic ahead of the four major trouble spots...I-94, Ford Road [[especially when the Ford employees get off work and UofM-D/Henry Ford colleges end their days), I-96, and the Lodge [[and to a smaller extent Grand River, but the breakup of the flow at I-96 lessens the severity there).

Add the fact that for some reason, south of Paul when the freeway opens up, most people speed up rather drastically...then Michigan Avenue takes a LANE away. Same with the northbound approach after Rotunda.


OK, I guess this freeway can stand to be improved...by thinking about those trouble spots, the troubles around them can all be reduced by increasing the length of merge lanes and making that Michigan Avenue exit just go away! The number of times I've seen cars balanced on that guardrail on the NB Southfield to EB Michigan Avenue, due to them taking the exit too fast, is beyond my ability to count.


They can certainly now make that service drive shoot straight through between Joy and Plymouth...those railroad tracks aren't quite as busy as they used to be.


It just makes me sick to hear of folks losing support during this down economic time, while we spend 80 million on a road that still works. It will cost more to fix later...this is another infrastructure dilemma of our empire in decline.


Cheers anyways.

[Det_ard]

It just makes me sick to hear of folks losing support during this down economic time, while we spend 80 million on a road that still works. It will cost more to fix later...this is another infrastructure dilemma of our empire in decline.

It would only be 50 million if we'd dump the union welfare act known as Davis-Bacon. It's a shame to name such a bad law after something as good as bacon.

One of our local communities had a $3 million project where the Feds would kick in 20%, net cost $2.4 million. They bid it out at market rates and with no Federal contribution it would cost $2 million.

Keep this in mind as you bemoan the tough choices we have to make with a limited pot of money.

[Jimaz]

The troubles on the Southfield E-way that you describe are harmonic in nature...you can 'see' the periodic shock waves perpetrated through traffic....

This subject has been discussed here before.

Trafficwaves.Org

[Rocko]

I was actually in a really bad accident on the Southfield just over 10 years ago due 100% to that "Roller coaster" effect with the rises and falls in the freeway. For some reason traffic southbound exiting onto Ford Road was backed up into the right land of the freeway. Traffic was at a stop in the right line going down the hill beneath the Paul Street bridge, the guy behind us didn't even hit the brakes and rear ended us at freeway speed. No insurance either. Totally our awesome '91 Aerostar, my dad broke his glasses and my brother broke a couple teeth. Otherwise, thankfully, we were all ok. Personally, I think they should rebuild Southfield as the Boulevard it once was with beautiful shade trees. But then again, I don't have to drive it everyday! A rebuild is long overdue....those cinderblock and chainlink walls look terrible along the service drive, the streetlights don't work, and many of the onramps are too short. Nevermind the overpasses, but they've been discussed here. I'm not sure why the original plan didn't include crossings where the service drive crosses the CSX near Joy, but I hope they are installed now. Maybe it's to deter people from taking the service drive instead of the expressway if there's a big backup.

[canuck]

Thanks DTWflyer.

I'm wondering how many of the old Roman roads are still in service in Europe. They knew how to build 'em.

Oh, and that one mile of I-375 downtown with the Euro-mix concrete seems to be holding up well.


I still think this is a huge waste of money that we don't have.

In 1982, I was on my way to Greece on a boat from Brindisi in southern Italy. Walking around I found an old piazza with round paving stones and inscriptions from roman times. The name of the engineer of that section of the Appian way was engraved. The Appian way was the old highway the roman army used to campaign around Italy.

[DTWflyer]

The Southfield is very much a necessary freeway on the west side of Detroit. It brings traffic down to U of D, Ford World HQ, Fairlaine, and even down to the Rouge River area. Plus its the main way to get to the airport from communities like Southfield, Berkley, Oak Park, Birmingham.

I think there are a couple factors that seem to cause a disproportionate number of accidents down there.

1) really bad driving - some people drive insanely fast on this highway, more so than many of the other roads around, despite it is signed at 55 mph, and there are people who actually only do 55 mph on there, with people doing 85 weaving in and out.

2) a number of driving getting on and getting off an exit later - I seem to see a lot of people who get on a like 7 mile then hop right off at 8 mile, somehow I think the rapid lane shifts and merging contributes to this as well.

Always have to watch out in Allen Park, from Michigan Ave to I-94. Those cops are out there 24/7.

[Gannon]

I am really surprised Dearborn hasn't followed their lead and done the same with that stretch from Paul to Rotunda, too! [[Allen Park starts at Rotunda on the east side of the freeway...they never patrol north of Rotunda.)

Sometimes Allen Park has a laser operator on the bridge between Outer Drive and Oakwood, with six or seven chasers. It has been a while since I've seen this, but other communities have done it on Interstates...like Livonia on I-275 and whoever is at I-75 and 11 Mile. Big money maker for them.

Driving tax for us...applied arbitrarily and with a VERY high bias.

[gazhekwe]

My biggest complaint about Southfield is that roller coaster effect. People go too fast then jam on their brakes over every hill whether they need to or not. It's maddening. The McNichols entrance ramps are too short and lack sufficient sight lines, so there is always a brakelight episode there. I agree about the loss of the lane at Michigan, which causes a lot of quick cut-overs, but you can continue straight through on the off/on lane if you need to. The off ramp at Eight Mile often backs up onto the freeway. Something could be done about the traffic lights on Eight Mile to smooth things out a bit, and adding more off ramp space would help.

I can't wait for them to permanently get rid of that wheel bending fissure between the slabs, left lane, northbound just past Keeler. They keep patching it and it opens up again not long after.

[Fnemecek]

The Detroit News is just now reporting that the Southfield Fwy. will close next year?

Pffft!

I had that story up on my blog back in April, with a follow up story in August. Of course, I "cheated".

Rather than sitting around, waiting for someone to hand me a press release like the News did, I went to the community meetings and covered the story as soon as the decision was made.

And so many "journalists" wonder why they're losing their jobs?

Original story @ http://warrendale.blogspot.com/2010/...ncepts_22.html

Follow-up @ http://warrendale.blogspot.com/2010/...eld-plans.html

[mkhopper]

[quote=gazhekwe;203833I agree about the loss of the lane at Michigan, which causes a lot of quick cut-overs, but you can continue straight through on the off/on lane if you need to. [/quote]

I agree about this. I drive the Southfield every day and the number of people who wait until the last moment to cut out of the right hand lane is insane. All it does is cause everyone else to apply their brakes hoping to keep out of the way.

Meanwhile I just stay in that right lane and wave to everyone as I fly past them.

Then the next day you'll see the same people do the same thing again.

[Gertrude]

It would only be 50 million if we'd dump the union welfare act known as Davis-Bacon. It's a shame to name such a bad law after something as good as bacon.

One of our local communities had a $3 million project where the Feds would kick in 20%, net cost $2.4 million. They bid it out at market rates and with no Federal contribution it would cost $2 million.

Keep this in mind as you bemoan the tough choices we have to make with a limited pot of money.

Davis-Bacon is not a union welfare act. It sets a minimum wage for various labor classifications related to construction. No union membership necessary.

From the Department of Labor: http://www.dol.gov/whd/contracts/dbra.htm

The Davis-Bacon and Related Acts, apply to contractors and subcontractors performing on federally funded or assisted contracts in excess of $2,000 for the construction, alteration, or repair [[including painting and decorating) of public buildings or public works. Davis-Bacon Act and Related Act contractors and subcontractors must pay their laborers and mechanics employed under the contract no less than the locally prevailing wages and fringe benefits for corresponding work on similar projects in the area. The Davis-Bacon Act directs the Department of Labor to determine such locally prevailing wage rates. The Davis-Bacon Act applies to contractors and subcontractors performing work on federal or District of Columbia contracts. The Davis-Bacon Act prevailing wage provisions apply to the “Related Acts,” under which federal agencies assist construction projects through grants, loans, loan guarantees, and insurance.