Help me pick out what degree to get at University [[Want to be an Urban Planner) .

[STEELWORKER]

Hello. I am about to finish my degree at OCC in business administration. Now I need to pick a degree at university. I want to be an urban planner but there are no bachelors in metro Detroit area. So I have been debating a degree in urban studies or geography Between going to Wayne State or U of M dearborn. Can you get a job with eather of these degrees? But I am also thinking of potentially do some sort of degree like economics, management, or finish in a regular business admin degree. I only have one requirement that I get a degree that will get me a job, but im torn with doing something I like. Thank you for any of your help.

[Gingellgirl]

Don't rule out EMU or MSU.
For a list of accredited planning programs, see http://www.planningaccreditationboar...ndex.php?id=30

Good luck! We need more forward thinkers!

[STEELWORKER]

I have to rule them out they are too far to commute to. Because I own a home in Oak Park. I just figure I will have to get a masters in urban planning. But still debating what undergrad degree to get that will get me a job and I will like.

[DetroitPlanner]

Congrats on finishing up at OCC first of all. I started out at Henry Ford and WC-3 myself, while not prestigous, it certainly gave me a good base and saved me a ton of dough.

Most planning degrees come from a mixture of geography, economics and public policy.

Best you can do at UM-D is Public Adminstration. UM in general is very weak in geography.

If you specialize in planning at UM-A2 is more along the lines of a degree in design rather than policy/geography. It is taught as a specialization in the achitecture program, not a bad idea mind you, but not the same as other degree programs.

When I finished architecture at Henry Ford CC, I was not really interested in UM's course catalog, but was drawn to WSU.

@ WSU you can co-major in Geography and Urban Studies. I did that.

Went to EMU for grad, loved some classes, bored by others.

I have never met someone who graduated from an MSU planning program that was not knowledgeable.

Many planners do not have degrees in Planning per se, but from a wide variety of liberal-arts or business type majors.

[SDRdesign]

Hello. I am about to finish my degree at OCC in business administration. Now I need to pick a degree at university. I want to be an urban planner but there are no bachelors in metro Detroit area. So I have been debating a degree in urban studies or geography Between going to Wayne State or U of M dearborn. Can you get a job with eather of these degrees? But I am also thinking of potentially do some sort of degree like economics, management, or finish in a regular business admin degree. I only have one requirement that I get a degree that will get me a job, but im torn with doing something I like. Thank you for any of your help.

Definately check EMU's Historic Preservation dept. They do have undergrad studies, but the degree / cert. are for master's programs.

[reddog289]

Not that I should post anything on this. But I have heard that EMU does have a good Historic preservation deal going on . A cousin of mine got his masters from there. He tought me alot about stuff such as that.This is just a janitors p.o.v. though.

[PurpleHeart]

I received my undergraduate degree in Sociology from the University of California Berkeley and with it have many graduate degree options!

This just may be the ticket for you in Urban Planning?

My thoughts were to enter Law School but I was side tracked, and wound up using my minor [[Computer Technology) for my career pursuits in General Motors [[that is after my career in the Marine Corps.)

Here is what they have at Oakland University http://www2.oakland.edu/socan/

Course work in Sociology is very interesting and covers many human services that are a framework to the very society you wish to plan. Anthropology is another underpinning of the urban environment and can involve study abroad. You can use this discipline with an eye on what you plan to study in your graduate work and bring a keen insight into class.

[[IMHO) Oakland is by far a better school than your other alternatives based on where you want to live.

[STEELWORKER]

Im not interested in human service [[I leave that to my GF who is social worker student) thats why im little leary of Urban Studies degree only getting me a job in human services. I am more interest in development, and planning. I love maps and I want to have my input in how cities are planned or revitilized. My dream is to work for a planning department of a major city but I would love to work for a private planning firm. I am jealous of the WSU grad who got in the planning department of Ferndale it seems like a good job.

[STEELWORKER]

as a side note I know that those subject are a part of planning. But I don't want them to be the focus of my learning. Thank you for your idea though.

[DetroitPlanner]

Urban Studies does not equate to sociology. Under the Urban Studies umbrella you can take courses in economics, public policy, law, history, geography, criminal justice, anthropology, and URBAN PLANNING. Heck when I took it there was even biology and earth sciences that counted for US credit, resulting in two-fers!

BTW while @ Eastern I took some historic preservation courses, while they were good courses, they were specifically tailored to only one aspect of planning. I would hesitate getting a degree in historic preservation unless you want to work as a historian. There is not much call in planning for a narrowly focused degree, you would have a hard time getting a general planning position.

In re-reading what I said about UM I think it may have sounded a bit harsh. I work with several UM grads, they are good planners.

[STEELWORKER]

Thank you for you help DETROITPLANNER. I have a big question how is the job market for urban studies/ geography degree? Also do you love your job and is it a hard occupation to get into? I have wanted to be an urban planner for a long time and id hate to be disappointed.

[DetroitPlanner]

I love my job. Right now times are very tight for local governments. The current economy has hurt property values which in turn have reduced tax revenues at the local level. This means the market is very tight and there is not a whole lot of people moving around these days, hence currently there are few opportunities for getting hired. You should review planning.org or planningmi.org for current job availabilities. Right now I would not be surprised if there were only a few in the area that are posted. You need to realize that it will take you 2-3 years to finish up and by then the market will be dramatically different than it is now.

Right now, most opportunities are coming on line only due to retirements. Even though things are tight, there is a minimal level of service that is needed to ensure that things don't get worse. This is not unlike the times when I finished-up back in 1990 when I could not get a job to save my life, however things changed rapidly and within a few years agencies were begging for qualified planners.

The best advice you can get is to do something that really interests you. Remember, you should pick your carrier wisely because you will probably spend at least 25-30 percent of your time as an adult working.Whether is be a planner or something else. Be interested in what you do, it helps you to do a better job. The money should follow.

[STEELWORKER]

I may get laid off again for a few months would you have any advice on how I could go about working for FREE [[personal internship) for any planning agency or planning department? I would do any work that is needed just for the opportunity to see what they do daily, as well as possibly get to put something on a resume other than my steelworking experiance [[not helpfull on any resume).

[CapitalistPig]

I have a b.s. in urban and regional planning from m.s.u. I had loads of internships while at m.s.u. but none of them helped me in getting a full time job. I worked for a finance company for three years after graduation and I am now jobless/under employed. I keep getting rejection letters because they say I'm not "qualified." I'm finding out that the planning profession is really "clicky." Seems like it is all about who you know, not what you know.

I'm considering getting my masters degree, but not really interested in all the student loans and not sure if a masters degree will even help.

Learner be ware!

[DetroitPlanner]

Steelworker,

You're best bet is to start attending public meetings and trying to meet people / network. If you speak, don't ask many opinionated questions but do ask ones that look for clarity. Opinions can be dangerous if you don't know the audience. Don't just attend the meetings in the City you live in, but try to go to the ones nearby as well. You will see a better variety of issues and policy styles.

[reddog289]

Steelworker, From what I got from my cousin when he was going for his degree in preservation that alot of networking took place. I picked up on that, The fact is eventhough he may not be working full time in his chosen profession, His people and well hygene skills were so-so to say the least. That last I knew he was considering getting his urban planning degree which if he had not to have to deal with the public would be a good fit for him. Seeing that you do have a girlfriend it might be safe to say you have a better chance then he did.Best of luck.

[BVos]

Steelworker,

Most local governments and non-profit planning/econ. dev. agencies are more than happy to have volunteer interns, especially those that are willing to be hard workers with any task assigned. While doing maps, site planning, etc. is "sexy" work, there's a lot of administrative crap that comes with the job, hence the need to be experienced and willing to do all sorts of stuff.

For undergrad, I would look into EMU's undergrad program. It's not that far from Oak Park and it's a very commuter friendly program. Making the trek a few times a week for classes isn't that bad. If you can't make EMU happen, some common allied undergrad degrees that work well with planning are: Geography [[WSU has a good program), Urban Studies [[WSU has a program), Business, Public Policy [[UM-D and WSU have good programs), Political Science. With urban planning it's not such a highly specialized field that you have to have an Urban Planning undergrad. Lots of people, including myself, have allied undergrad degrees. I think it makes for a more well rounded planner personally. I even know of planners with undergrads in English, Fine Arts, and other things you wouldn't even think would match up.

Most planning professionals do have Master's degrees. Some older, more experienced planners don't, but if you're young or new to the field plan on getting an MUP [[Master of Urban Planning) if you want to be competitive in the employment field. To get an idea of the breadth of the planning field and it's specialties, Planetizen is a good place to go. Lot's of good discussions and a great email newsletter to keep you abreast of trends nationally and globally. Next American City is another publication that I highly recommend.

The job market in Michigan is pretty tight for planning. It's not "clicky", but with budgets incredibly tight most planning orgs. want to know they're getting a good employee who will make things work well. There's just not the time or money to deal with a novice or a problem employee. A lot of newly minted planners are having to move to Chicago, Boston, NY, etc. for work. Hopefully with retirements coming up for a lot of planners, as referenced above, and a recovery in the future at some point, the job market will pick back up. Urban Planning is consistently rated as one of the jobs with the brightest future.

[STEELWORKER]

I think EMU is 45 min drive away which adds lot more time to my day considering i work full time and I get posted overtime which limits me to only 5 hours sleep some nights. You guy's have been very helpfull, thank you. I have been assuming I will have to get a masters considering if im still working, I will be limited by internships and the opportunities of getting my foot in the door with just a bachelors.

BVos can you get a job with a geography degree [[even if its not as urban planning)? I have seen a decent amount of jobs listed for people who know GIS . Does WSU program teach enough GIS? I need to get any half decent job once i get my bachelors that way I can quit my crappy steelworker job and be able to work on a masters.

So there is an expected growth for planners? What makes up the majority of planners are they public or private?

[BVos]

You can get a job, not necessarily in urban planning, with a geography degree. Most geographers work in cartography [[science of maps) and there aren't too many of those jobs in the Detroit area. They tend to migrate towards government centers since government agencies [[like the USGS, etc.) are the ones that are the biggest map makers.

GIS, as you have discovered, is an area of geography that is distributed a little more evenly across the country. That's a specialization in and of itself related to, but separate from planning. It's helpful to be an urban planner who's proficient in GIS [[which is helpful) but GIS can stand by itself. It's more of a technical job than the social/political job that planning is. In most cases you wouldn't have a direct hands on role in a project that's "on the ground", but as a GIS tech you'd be the person helping those decision makers crunch the geography, spatial relationships and social statistics of the project area. GIS is about a bit over half technology [[programing GIS queries, linking GIS with data sets, working w/ GPS devices, data management, figuring out how existing technology be adapted/reprogramed to help figure out a social/spatial problem, etc.) and a bit less than half knowing about planning, government process, cartography, social issues, etc. to inform your technology decisions related to your GIS projects.

There are several governments that have GIS deptartments that are part of the IT dept. [[not the planning dept) and they work cross departmentally to assist with utilities, storm water management, elections, schools, transportation, social services, public health, etc. when some hard core geographic analysis can be very helpful to a project. There are also a lot of private firms [[planning, civil engineering, mapping, etc.) that need GIS experts.

If this is a field you want to get involved in, I would recomend no where else but EMU in the state of Michigan. WSU doesn't focus on GIS as part of their program, neither does UM. It's a part of their program but you won't walk out an expert on the topic just from the classes they offer. If you're the type that likes to play around with these sorts of gizmoes and programs in your spare time you could probably do well at WSU or UM if you wanted to go into GIS. But if you want to go into GIS as a career go to EMU. They have professors that are the ones building the programs, hardware, etc. and doing the problem solving to make existing technologies better.

The growth for planners is expected primarily to be with governments, although private firms are growing too as the field becomes more specialized.

[DetroitPlanner]

I would agree with Bvos, specializing in GIS will not help you get a satisfying job if you want to be a planner. If you love numbers or cartography GIS is a wonderful field, but many planners that have chosen to specialize in GIS have been relagated to more of an IT or technician role.
Planners need to study policy and people, as well as how people use the land. This is why geography is a gateway into planning.

I suppose you are getting a lot of conflicting advice here and it is confusing. What would help us put in you the right direction would be a more defined goal from you. That is, answer the following questions:

Why do you want to be a planner?
What sort of job do you envision that would make you the most happiest?

[wolverine]

If you specialize in planning at UM-A2 is more along the lines of a degree in design rather than policy/geography. It is taught as a specialization in the achitecture program, not a bad idea mind you, but not the same as other degree programs.

That is 100% incorrect.

It is almost entirely economic or policy based. There's also a set of courses you can take that deal with spatial analysis, and those skills are heavily applied in graduate capstones and thesis projects that deal with community development. You are mistakingly thinking of the Urban Design program, which is a separate degree from planning. Only a handful of courses were offered in this area.

Honestly, I wish the planning program was more tied to architecture, but it wasn't at all.

[STEELWORKER]

I love looking at zoning and cities master plans. I like looking at maps. The reason I want to be a planner is to have input in how cities are revitalized or how they are built. I want to have some input about creating or helping add walkability or sustainable and original communities [[typical suburbs/neighborhoods slowly die). I could be just as happy helping revitalize a city or neighborhood as I would with a new city and subdivisions. I often travel and envision different zoning that could be used to improve an area. I would love to work for almost any cities planning department, but I could easily enjoy working for a private company that a city may use to make recommendation for an area.

[STEELWORKER]

Thank you everyone this has been some help to me.

[BVos]

Good luck Steelworker! I encourage you to visit planning programs at the various universities in the area to get a feel for them and see if they're a good fit for you. I think you'll find the faculty/staff at the planning programs in the area can also help you narrow down what area of planning you'd like to get into, either through discussions with them or by referring you to experienced planners who are more than happy to talk about the profession, let you follow them on the job, etc.

[DetroitPlanner]

I love looking at zoning and cities master plans. I like looking at maps. The reason I want to be a planner is to have input in how cities are revitalized or how they are built. I want to have some input about creating or helping add walkability or sustainable and original communities [[typical suburbs/neighborhoods slowly die). I could be just as happy helping revitalize a city or neighborhood as I would with a new city and subdivisions. I often travel and envision different zoning that could be used to improve an area. I would love to work for almost any cities planning department, but I could easily enjoy working for a private company that a city may use to make recommendation for an area.

Your response is broad enough to fit into many programs. I was hoping to see if you were leaning more towards policy, geography, or design. I can't really tell.

Just about all planners want to have some input in how a city is built or revitalized. One thing a planner needs to understand however is that they are not the lead dog in setting policy. I am not saying this to be discouraging, but to know that your place may not always be to be the champion, but to find the champion for your cause.

Zoning work would focus on working with planning commissions. You could work for either a City or a private practice and be staff to several cities.

Walkable/Sustainable positions would be found in larger bodies [[think big cities, Metropolitan Planning Organizations, or County government).

As mentioned earlier, if you want to work with maps, you may not actually do planning type or work, but if you concentrate on planning and have some knowlegde of GIS and databases in general, you will find that to be invaluable while looking for work.

While still a student, you should try to attend the national conference at least once to do some networking. It was recently in Minneapolis, but seems to get to Chicago on a frequent basis. Where are some topics from the last conference that dealt with career planning: http://www.planning.org/nationalconf...le/careers.htm