Neighborhoods / Real Estate

[hogz]

Hello everyone, I have read this forum for years, but finally registered. I'm tiring of renting and want to buy some property in the city. My price range is anywhere from 1,000-100,000 USD with something in the middle of that range likely. If I buy something for 100,000 USD I'm hoping it is in fairly good condition at purchase, whereas at 1,000 USD I understand I'm buying something to fix up of course.

I want to hear all of your insight about neighborhoods. Which neighborhoods are safer than people generally realize? and which more dangerous? Where do you think property is overpriced? Where do you think deals can be had?

What do you think of your neighborhood? What do y'all think makes for a good investment in the D? and what makes a bad investment? Why have people failed with real estate in Detroit? And why have they succeeded?

General real estate advice for the city is appreciated. I noticed in another thread someone cautioned against quick claim deeds. More information about these is appreciated.

I'm looking for a property that I'd enjoy living in for sometime. I'm considering making a duplex situation wherein I could rent one floor of a two story house, and live in the second floor. Eventually the house could be become a full out investment property. I'm looking for something at least 1200+ Sq Ft.

I like Corktown, North Corktown, Downtown, Midtown, Woodbridge, Art Center areas, but I want to hear insights into other neighborhoods as well as those. Thanks.

[rencense]

Hi Hogz,


This is my first post to dyes [[though I've been lurking here for some time) As someone who is planning on moving to detroit

[[buying a house) from the suburbs pretty soon I've done an incredible amount of looking around, talking with people, and

researching.

First off, you should be able to find something for wayyy less than 100k [[unless you want an absolute mansion or very close

proximity to downtown etc) It appears that I might be the first response to this post. That having been said, I will expect

people to remind you that you can find some very nice places in many suburbs for well under 100k and this is a very true

fact. It's inevitable you'll get plenty of people trying to talk you out of the city [[I'm definately not one of them) Few

things get me more excited than people moving to/investing in detroit but I hate to see anyone get in over their heads or not

understand their area etc. Well with that clumsy caveat out of the way I'll throw out some suggestions.

1) The grandmont/rosedale park area: This is one of the best examples of solid middle class detroit living. This area has a

few things going for it. the houses and landscaping is very nice and immaculately maintained. There is a strong association

for the area [[check grdc dot org) and finally the commercial/shopping areas along grand river and fenkell are some of the

best in the area. Because of the recession I've found some very nice homes for between 15k and 50k.

2) East English Village/Morningside area: Basically the east side's rosedale park. EEV has exceptionally well kept homes and

an active neighborhood association. Again thanks to the recession houses can be found for unbelievable prices [[I saw a house

I was very interested in for about 25k) West of outer drive is the larger morningside area. Morningside is generally in a bit

rougher shape than EEV [[though the first few blocks past outer drive are quite nice) I see a lot of potential in that area[[and the west most parts of the neighborhood have seen many new habitat for humanity houses built recently)

3) West Village: Just west of indian village this is a great litte neighborhood with excellent houses [[that aren't mansions like in IV) Now many of the houses are going for north of 100k but there are still some bargains to be found. WV is reasonably close to downtown if thats important [[a pretty reasonable bike ride)

4) Jefferson-Chalmers: This is on the far east side south of jefferson next to the pointes. Personally I think this area has amazing potential. Some of the blocks are holding out better than others and unfortunately some torched houses etc. The highlights here are the proximity to downtown and gross pointe and the water access [[some of the streets have canal access to the river!) Lots of boating and fishing if thats your thing

5) Much of NW: Granted this is a big area but there are lots of nice houses in solid neighborhoods on the cheap. One area I've been looking at is the Bagley neighborhood around 7mile and livernois

6) Hubbard Farms: Very cool area from vernor to lafayatte, clark to W grand blvd. Very active neighborhood with beautiful architecture.

Well theres a lot more to add but I figure this is a good place to start. I'm not sure how close you want to be to downtown. I definitely agree that corktown and woodbrige area also great spots but are getting a bit pricey these days.

I was also thinking about your question on investment tips. As I see it there are some mistakes that are very common in detroit investors that often fail.

a) Going too high end: It seems like downtown developments tend to often be wayyy fancy and pricey. While I appreciate the effort and they do have some takers there is a large population of recent college grads etc that want to live downtown but cant afford to pay for a place with a jacuzzi and granite counters. Really there should be both to cater to multiple income ranges

b) the low price syndrome: naturally this has become newsworthy for detroit with $100 houses and the like. The city is filled with bargain priced housing even in the nicer areas. Don't buy a house just because its two grand; buy a house thats 20 grand in a pretty solid area that you like. Truthfully I don't think we can save every part of the city but some areas just need a little boost to stay strong.

c) expecting a quick buck: I was reading about an investor who has been pumping tons of money into buying houses and rehabbing them as rentals quickly [[but is NOT a slumlord) basically he's not focusing on profit yet but rather building up a postive reputation for the future. Anyone is free to invest in detroit real estate but realistically its not always going to be easy money. I do believe that anyone who loves this town but is realistic about their investing can make a few dollars while being a positive influence.

Sorry this droned on wayy too long but hopefully some of this is helpful. Good luck with your search!

[hogz]

Thank you for the info rencense! I really appreciate it.

Hubbard farms is a really great idea for me. I will have to check out the area more, because I haven't spent much time there.

What about the area just east of there? just south of the train station and bounded by rosa parks, fort, bagley and I-75. What about southwest detroit in general? What have people's experiences been living in SWD? What are the safest neighborhoods? What neighborhoods to avoid? [[I know avoid delray)

I know Rosedale park, east english village and west village have some nice homes, so i'll have to look into those more.

Though, I would prefer something closer to downtown. 7 and livernois is somewhat cool to me, because the palmer woods, and too much lesser extent university district neighborhoods are beautiful, and they idea of getting a huge mansion discount because of the economy is exciting, but overall I'd like to fairly live close to downtown/midtown. Places like Southwest detroit and Hamtramck could possibly work though, because they have their own retail/nightlife options.

But, I like being able to have business somewhat close by. Thanks again for the info.

[Magnatomicflux]

Welcome to the board both of you!

[Eric_c]

By all mean, make sure you check out the Villages! www.villagesofdetroit.com

There is a house kitty corner from me on Field that is a gorgeous 2,750 square foot classic. Four bedrooms, enormous bath, all the historic oak trim, pocket doors, grand staircase, butlers pantry, etc. for $8,900!

2514 Field! Check it out and don't hesitate to ask if you have specific questions.

[DetroitPole]

Wow, Rencense sums it up incredibly well.

I just bought a house 6 months ago for an absolutely obscenely cheap price and it is in great condition. I have no regrets and absolutely encourage you to do the the same. I pay much less than I did renting for a much nicer place of MY OWN. I don't view it as an investment - it is my home. I'm not looking to make money when I sell, but I'm sure I'll come out ahead.

I live in EEV and it is a beautiful and serene place to live. The one drawback is that it is far from greater downtown. Places like Corktown, Woodbridge, and Midtown are nice but I think too much emphasis and hype is placed on them these days [[and thus they are overpriced) - the outer neighborhoods are where it is smartest to buy. You can buy a house for a fraction of what it would have cost less than 10 years ago in a quiet, beautiful neighborhood. Sure you could also do the same in the suburbs - but you're going to be VERY hard pressed to find a neighborhood that looks like Grandmont-Rosedale or EEV in the burbs.

[Pcm]

By all mean, make sure you check out the Villages! www.villagesofdetroit.com

There is a house kitty corner from me on Field that is a gorgeous 2,750 square foot classic. Four bedrooms, enormous bath, all the historic oak trim, pocket doors, grand staircase, butlers pantry, etc. for $8,900!

2514 Field! Check it out and don't hesitate to ask if you have specific questions.

Not to nitpick, but the web address is http://thevillagesofdetroit.com/.

Good luck, hogz!

[DetroitHabitater]

corktown might be over-hyped, but definitely not expensive. There are some beauties of late victorian houses in north corktown just begging to be rehabilitated with their awesome original architectural details.

[Dabirch]

By all mean, make sure you check out the Villages! www.villagesofdetroit.com

There is a house kitty corner from me on Field that is a gorgeous 2,750 square foot classic. Four bedrooms, enormous bath, all the historic oak trim, pocket doors, grand staircase, butlers pantry, etc. for $8,900!

2514 Field! Check it out and don't hesitate to ask if you have specific questions.

I believe your little street of paradise was on 1-8-7 last night. They called it Schoenher - but I am pretty sure it was field somewhere between st. paul and agnes or lafayette - where all of the "new" [[late 90's) construction from Church of the Messiah is...

[Eric_c]

I believe your little street of paradise was on 1-8-7 last night. They called it Schoenher - but I am pretty sure it was field somewhere between st. paul and agnes or lafayette - where all of the "new" [[late 90's) construction from Church of the Messiah is...

Well, that's fun.

And, yes, thanks for catching the typo, Pcm.

[Eric_c]

Here are some pics from the "little street of paradise"...

[rencense]

Not a problem, I love to try to help anyone looking to move to this enigmatic city of ours [[I'm hoping to be able to buy sometime this spring/summer myself)

I definitely understand the desire to be near downtown and have been looking around there myself. Now naturally the best bargains/neighborhoods are often near the outskirts of the city but you should still be able to find something that suits you within a reasonable proximity from downtown [[lets say a bikeable distance. I love hitting the bars downtown but i hate having to stay sober enough to drive afterwards!

One thing I might mention to help your search is to check out trulia dot com which allows you to see listings by neighborhood and see some former sale prices for those properties. [[I kid you not many of the place I've seen have sold in the 150k-200k range a year or two ago and are now 1/10th that price!)

Unfortunately I can't give any real advice about the livability/safety of SW detroit in general since I haven't lived there. I do however have family that lives there [[and has no desire to leave....in delray no less!) I agree that SW has a lot to offer including:

*close to downtown
*surprisingly strong retail along w. vernor [[especially for good grocery stores!)
*lots of groups working to improve SW
*finally, the new bagley pedestrian bridge is terrific and now allows easy crossing from corktown to hubbard farms on foot or bike
*the population density and abundance of families; the hispanic population has, IMO, really improved and stabilized the area compared to a few decades ago.

As I understand the biggest drawback of of SW are gangs which are more common that in many other parts of the city [[especially hispanic gangs) Now I'm not sure how much of a threat they pose if you're not giving them trouble etc but its worth noting. My impression though, is that street smarts go a long way here and I think the world would be better off when we all work to avoid making enemies.

And definitely check out the villages! I say from experience [[I went to their event a few months ago and was incredibly impressed by the residents from the area) It's reasonably close to downtown and very friendly but a littler pricier [[keep your eye on trulia though, some bargains can be found)

Now another option is the riverfront [[though this assumes that you're ok with owning a condo instead of a house. Here you can find some rock bottom prices on awesome condos overlooking the river and close to downtown [[another hint, try google real estate search) I've seen condos for 20-30k that were quite tempting.

Parts of the new center area are worth a look too. While if you head too far north the area gets pretty sad the parts closer to WGB/fisher building can often be cheap and very close to midtown and downtown.

Well thats about it for now, I almost forgot another reason why people lose in the detroit real estate game. I totally agree with detroitpole buy a place to live in, not as an investment. While I'm optimistic about the future its hardly the city to make watertight investments. I discourage people from buying in the city unless they believe in a better future for it, anyone buying to make a quick buck is likely to be dissapointed. I'm also sure you know you'll be paying more in taxes/insurance than most suburbs but when you find a great place for pocket change you can still be dollars ahead

cheers!

[rencense]

oh sorry and not to hijack but to detroitpole,

As you said you bought in EEV recently I'm wondering how it is as I'm looking in that area a lot. I'm pretty excited that at this point I can buy there as cheaply as 20-30k which would have never been the case a few years ago. I walked around the neighborhood a few weeks ago and was stunned at how well kept everything was. Are there any real downsides to EEV?

Thanks for any advice

[windsor_shane]

you can get a pretty sweet townhouse in lafayette park for about 100k..

well kept complex close to downtown and eastern market..

[JStone]

Check out Leverette Street in Corktown - I believe there is a charming little cottage with an extra lot [[think urban farming - so hip, so cool, so green, and you can park your bicycles there) - many luxury ammentities. If you could work a short sale with the bank and owner, perhaps $100k would do it. NEZ for another 8.5 years.

I believe it was featured in the Freep a couple weeks back.

[EastSider]

Are there any real downsides to EEV?

Well, it's in the city, which means city services can be spotty. The number of crimes is climbing. The shooting of the outdoor pisser/stick-up artist by the former cop happened in EEV.

Lots of break-ins. Open-air drug sales tried starting up in August on the north end, but they seemed to have moved on. Somebody opened a whorehouse in a vacant foreclosed house last spring on Harvard near Harper.

[DetroitPole]

oh sorry and not to hijack but to detroitpole,

As you said you bought in EEV recently I'm wondering how it is as I'm looking in that area a lot. I'm pretty excited that at this point I can buy there as cheaply as 20-30k which would have never been the case a few years ago. I walked around the neighborhood a few weeks ago and was stunned at how well kept everything was. Are there any real downsides to EEV?

Thanks for any advice

Re: City Services, to follow up on what Eastsider said - there are several, if not half a dozen or so, CoD high-ups living in EEV. I'm convinced this is why city services run like clockwork here - I called a certain city department about a certain visible problem and it was fixed overnight - yes, overnight. There is also no illegal dumping here. None. I have no problem with city services in EEV.

Downsides:

Crime, just this being the city. Break-ins seem to more often be garage than house. I've noticed a couple shady circumstances myself. Violent crime doesn't seem to be a problem though. The neighbors are also very attentive. There was also some squatting as of late.

Retail is okay but heavily dependent on Grosse Pointe. I like to shop in the city but there are no good grocers near by. I can get some staples at Yorkshire Market, which I really like, but beyond that there isn't much. However, in the summer there is a small farmers' market at Warren and Bishop.

I also get the feeling that some of the newcomers do not keep up their properties as well as the longer-term residents. Believe it or not, this area was much nicer 20 years ago.

I don't know your age but there are not many young people living here. Some, but mostly an older crowd. It isn't Woodbridge or Midtown, basically.

Finally, as I said, you are far from downtown and being on the east side makes one feel far from really everything, except Grosse Pointe.

I don't want to go over all the good points since you asked for the downsides, but this is an integrated, stable, clean, relatively safe, eerily quiet, beautiful neighborhood. It has exceeded my expectations.

20k - 30k for a house - that's what I did. My advice: Do it. You can own a house for that which would cost a fortune elsewhere and EEV, no matter how you feel about Detroit, is a very livable neighborhood.

[hogz]

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful advice. Please KEEP IT COMING! I'm learning a lot from all of you.

About me: mid-twenties, college grad, money saved up, generally speaking prefer close to downtown westside neighborhoods [[don't have to be this though), hard to envision myself going to Grosse Pointe a lot [[but perhaps), if i have to go to suburbs prefer ferndale, royal oak, birmingham. Not necessary to be in neighborhood with people my age, but could be nice. Plenty of friends in Detroit already. Not really thinking about having/raising kids at this point.

Do want something that I'd love living in as well as something with investment/rental potential.

Not very interested in Lafayette Park. My folks lived there at one time though. Appreciate the architecture and community, but I really like a regular house on a street kinda thing. That is just me. Also, looking for more of a bargain type deal.

EEV is now on my radar, and I very much thank all those who have brought this good idea to my attention.

Anyone out there have more info on Hubbard farms, or southwest/mexicantown in general?

rencense, I'm familiar with trulia. That seems to be an excellent tool for the search. When it comes to REO properties, or foreclosures they don't seem to provide any picture, or much information. Anyone know how to find out more info about these properties? How to go about viewing or purchasing one? I know these are layman's questions.

Also how bad does everyone think crime in New Center area [[excluding northern edge of neighborhood) is compared with other neighborhoods in this discussion? My perception is that it is, say, not as bad as Boston Edison but worse than, say, north corktown. Accurate? I dunno.

Anyway, thanks again everybody.

[Relayer76]

Not to nitpick, but the web address is http://thevillagesofdetroit.com/.

Good luck, hogz!

Just checked out the real estate prices in some of these neighbourhoods. If you had health care south of the border you would be in a real estate boom. Maybe I could buy a house in Detroit and just rent a room in Windsor to maintain a Canadian address. This site makes me crazy. Detroit is beautiful.

[hogz]

Agreed, that site is great. Is there a way to access property listings on there though? Thank you Eric_C and Pcm for the link!

[Relayer76]

Agreed, that site is great. Is there a way to access property listings on there though? Thank you Eric_C and Pcm!

Try this http://www.trulia.com/MI/Detroit,3840,Indian_Village/

3475 Burns St. , 3200 sq ft., with granite countertops for $84,500 is mine!

[Krawlspace]

For hogz & rencense:

I have lived in EEV [[technically across Cadieux from EEV) for 13+ years.
City services as mentioned above are tops, and police are visible.
There is spotty crime, but compared to other areas relatively low.
Not a ton of retail in the immediate area, but it's a 5 minute drive to the Village in GP where they have everything I would need including a brand new Kroger that opened last month. It's also a 10-12 minute drive to downtown.
I really love the area but am forced to sell to move up state to take care of my folks.
If either of you are interested, I have a thread about the house over in the ads section.
It's not a huge house at 1100 sq ft, but it is very private and secluded considering the area and I have invested literally 20K into it in the past 10 years. The house is 100% turn key. I'm asking 25K.
Here's the link to the thread.
I pray every night that I can find someone who is as excited to live in the city as I was/am, and will appreciate all the work I have put into it and the neighborhood.
Sorry if this comes off as a thread jack, but I am very attached to the house and would do almost anything to hand it over to the right person[[s).
Good luck in your search!

[JStone]

Krawl - Nice Backyard!

Love the man cave. Wish I had one.

Sorry to hear about your folks.

[Krawlspace]

Thanks J!
The Detroit Room has about 1/8th of what it originally held. Had to tidy up for showings.
The folks are generally OK, just need help around the place and I want to be up and settled by the time it starts to go beyond that. Thanks for the concern.

[sumas]

Wrote a long post yesterday but timed out cause I took too long.

For Detroit, EEV has no downsides. I am partial to that portion that is bounded by Mack/Warren/OuterDrive/Cadieux. That's the area I know well. Lived here on and off since 1965. This is my parents home and Mom is now 91 and I am her caretaker.

EEV if you know your streets is only twenty minutes from downtown. Great little neighborhood stores and people are so friendly.

It is super safe and the neighborhood organization is without peer.

If there is a down side it is a so typical suburban type neighborhood which mirrors GPP. Dogs, kids, people walking about that it is somewhat bucolic [[sp?)