Another thread by me about legalization.

[Django]

I just found these guys, arguing my point much better than me.

http://www.citizensopposingprohibition.org/

[woodwardboy]

yep... no clue why the government would want to criminialize a plant. If people want to get high, so be it.
Less government, more freedom.

[GOAT]

Pot should at the very least be decriminalized. But money talk and stoners...well....slide on the couch and eat delicious White Castle.

[Crumbled_pavement]

I'm staunchly against the legalization of drugs because I feel that legalization will only lead to more drug users. Look at alcohol and tobacco for proof. They pack in millions of users and we don't need to add more millions of users on harder drugs. However, I am for tamping down the enforcement against those who are just using drugs. Speeding is illegal, but how many years in jail would the average person be looking at if they got caught speeding? I know Americans don't like to believe there is a middle ground and every choice is an either/or choice, but in this case there are other options.

Also, as far as the "individual liberty" thing, I agree except when someone is stoned and is living in a society where their actions affect me. We have enough drunks on the road who come home from a bar or other social gathering, we don't need to add millions more high off cocaine or heroin or whatever other drug people want to get high off of. Yes, I know people do this stuff anyway and it's already illegal to be high and drive, but legalizing drug consumption will just increase the amount of people doing this.

[Blarf]

but legalizing drug consumption will just increase the amount of people doing this.

People keep saying this, yet won't provide the documented statistics to back this up.

In the meantime, tell me exactly WHY you would start using heroin if it were legalized?

[Ray1936]

In the meantime, tell me exactly WHY you would start using heroin if it were legalized?

The trouble is those who would give it a try are trapped by the tremendous addictive factor it has.

Let's criminalize tobacco, also, while we're at it. Would be okay with me.

[Patrick]

Criminalize Ovaltine too

[Jimaz]

In the meantime, tell me exactly WHY you would start using heroin if it were legalized?

Not to disagree with you [[I do agree with you) but the answer to that question in some cases would be because of excruciating pain and no better alternative. The stories of vets returning from war after being cut off from morphine for their painful injuries comes to mind.

Pain can become severe enough to make people want to deal with the devil.

[Big Dog]

Not only the physical, but the emotional pain too.

[Django]

People keep saying this, yet won't provide the documented statistics to back this up.

In the meantime, tell me exactly WHY you would start using heroin if it were legalized?

I agree. I also think advertising of tobacco and alcohol contributes a lot to getting and keeping people addicted. I do not think any drugs should be advertised in any way, but regulated yes.

Heres a program that has legalized heroin use in Switzerland and if you look at the stats of the users it makes sense. Other countries are also trying this program out, including Canada. http://www.citizensopposingprohibiti...-2009-summary/

[gazhekwe]

I like this, from the article:

Cost Issues: 48 dollars/day: Patient costs are covered by national health insurance agency. Patients pay 700 dollars for the compulsory insurance. Note: The Swiss save about 38 dollars per day per patient mostly in lowered costs for court and police time, due to less crime committed by the patients.

[Django]

Heres the rest of the stats Gaz was referring to involving the Swiss heroin program 2004-2010.

*Crime Issues: 60% drop in felony crimes by patients [[80% drop after one year in the program). 82% drop in patients selling heroin.

*Death Rates: No one has died from a heroin overdose since the inception of the program. The heroin used is inspected for purity and strength by technicians.

*Disease Rates: New infections of Hepatitis and HIV have been reduced for patients in the program.

*New Use Rates: Slightly lower than expected. 1) As reported in the Lancet June 3, 2006, the medicalisation of using heroin has tarnished the image of heroin and made it unattractive to young people. 2) Most new users are introduced to heroin by members of their social group and 50% of users also deal to support their habit. Therefore, with so many users/sellers in treatment, non-users have fewer opportunities to be exposed to heroin, especially in the rural areas.

*Cost Issues: 48 dollars/day: Patient costs are covered by national health insurance agency. Patients pay 700 dollars for the compulsory insurance. Note: The Swiss save about 38 dollars per day per patient mostly in lowered costs for court and police time, due to less crime committed by the patients.

*In December 2008 the Swiss voted [[68%-32%) to make the program part of their body of laws.

** This summary was taken from six published reports. The Swiss Federal Office of Public Health reviewed and approved its release.

I just don't understand why people think hard drug use would skyrocket. Of course there are those who are so down that using cocaine, heroin, meth, or whatever is a way to escape. Its just a fact that some will turn to drugs to feel better for a little while, its called addiction and its a disease, its not something that can affect everyone who dabbles. The disease is something that is awoken in certain ppl.

[Papasito]

Stupid people overdose.
Legalization would be a means of thinning the herd.

[Johnlodge]

[Django]

Im not sure how those stats work JL, its a pretty well known fact that ciggs kill more than any other combination of illegal drugs. Booze is the number one killer though, always has been. Marijuana has never killed anyone, Im curious why its even on the chart.

As I understand the Lancet is well respected so Im a bit confused. Maybe its the term HARM but I still dont understand how MJ has harmed that many ppl.

[Johnlodge]

Im not sure how those stats work JL, its a pretty well known fact that ciggs kill more than any other combination of illegal drugs. Booze is the number one killer though, always has been. Marijuana has never killed anyone, Im curious why its even on the chart.

As I understand the Lancet is well respected so Im a bit confused. Maybe its the term HARM but I still dont understand how MJ has harmed that many ppl.

MJ can be abused like anything else. I had friends who overdid it, were stoned all day every day, and they pretty much stopped maturing in several ways at the point they started. Occasional recreational use is hardly a threat to anybody. But yes, there is subjectivity in this study. My point in posting it is that it shows the lack of consistency in our lawmaking on this topic. Marijuana being illegal is a farce, and does more harm than good.

Some analysis on the Lancet's study:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11660210

[Django]

Agreed, though the Lancet study still makes me wonder what they consider harm. I read it all and watched the video. Ive used Lancet to back me up on my other posts on DYes while calling for a change in drug laws, I trust them. Dr Nutt seems a solid character whose trying to do the right thing for the right reasons.

[Jimaz]

Another reason to legalize marijuana from today's Detroit News: Synthetic drug use is on the rise

More than 50 people have been treated at Michigan hospitals this year after using K2, a synthetic form of marijuana that was banned under a state law that took effect last month. The federal Drug Enforcement Administration announced plans last week to ban five chemicals used in synthetic drugs.

Developers of such substances typically make minor chemical changes to avoid having them classified as illegal.

"A slight change in the chemical — moving a carbon here or there — will change the legal status of these drugs," said Allen St. Pierre, executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, which favors legalizing marijuana. "And the audience for fake pot is kids."

I don't recall ever hearing of anyone needing to be treated in a hospital for marijuana use.

Trying to ban these more dangerous marijuana substitutes has clearly become a never-ending cat-and-mouse game.

I'm not familiar with these substitutes. Can anyone shed light on them?

[Captain Hindsight]

Everyone should "just say no". That would solve the problem.

[Big Dog]

Good idea, just say no to booze and tobacco too.

[Blarf]

Everyone should "just say no". That would solve the problem.

Unfortunately that statement isn't realistic.

[Django]

Thank you Captain Hindsight. LOL.

[Lowell]

For reasons unknown, about a third to a half of all people will be involved in excessive substance abuse. Some times it is legal like generous prescriptions for specious maladies, alcohol, tobacco, fat and sugar. Other times it will not be. The rest of us will 'sin' in varying degrees but never become a slave. It is just human nature and can be seen throughout history. Laws of man cannot overrule laws of nature.

Allow any adult to do with their body as they please and be responsible for its care. Want to smoke, drink, be skydiver? Then you choose to hang out in a far more dangerous health neighborhood and should expect to be required to pay a much larger health insurance premium.

Health education needs to be ramped up by banning advertising of all drugs, alcohol, script drugs, tobacco, pot, replacing them with ads discouraging their use.

[maxx]

Lowell: Allow any adult to do with their body as they please and be responsible for its care. Want to smoke, drink, be skydiver? Then you choose to hang out in a far more dangerous health neighborhood and should expect to be required to pay a much larger health insurance premium.

And if they can't pay the premium?

From the website in the OP:
"Think of an America where felony crime is reduced by half which allows the police to focus on the deadly DUI, ..."

Because once all drugs are legalized, no one will drive while high. ROFL

[Blarf]

It's funny to me that someone intoxicated on alcohol is just someone having a good time, but someone intoxicated on certain other things is considered a criminal.

No one is going to take the "drug war" seriously when there is so much hypocrisy.