Murder/suicide in Lafayette Park

[REL]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/25941838/detail.html

DETROIT -- Detroit police are investigating a possible murder-suicide shooting at an upscale apartment complex near downtown Detroit.
Investigators told Local 4 two men were shot and killed before the gunman shot himself at about 10:30 a.m. Sunday.
The incident happened at an apartment complex on Joliet Place in Lafayette Park near downtown Detroit.
Police said a verbal confrontation between neighbors escalated into the shootings.
Police said a 27-year-old suspect shot and killed a 42-year-old man outside his apartment, then went inside and shot a man in his early 60s, then took his own life.
Neighbors identified the first victim as Kevin Johnson, a local documentary film producer.
Witnesses said Johnson was hosting a holiday gathering with his wife, daughter and friends when an argument with the suspect started.
Witnesses said they heard screams and five to 10 gunshots.
One of Johnson’s neighbors, Robert Andres, said he heard the gunshots and ran outside.
“I saw the man lying on the lawn in front of the townhouse over there and called 911,” Andres said.
Another neighbor, Rebecca Dudash, tried to perform CPR.
“I went over there and tried to administer first aide. I checked his pulse, but he was already gone,” Dudash said.
Dudash said Johnson had a gunshot wound to the head.
Police said they found the suspect dead in his apartment with a weapon next to his hand.
Investigators said they’re working to determine a motive for the murders.

[BrushStart]

That's crazy.

[GOAT]

Detroit - Them people is living in Mad Max times.

How sad. [[or pathetic)

[REL]

And his wife, daughter, and friends were there at the time. Incredibly tragic, also for the other nameless victim.

[DetroitPole]

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/25941838/detail.html

DETROIT -- Detroit police are investigating a possible murder-suicide shooting at an upscale apartment complex near downtown Detroit.
Investigators told Local 4 two men were shot and killed before the gunman shot himself at about 10:30 a.m. Sunday.
The incident happened at an apartment complex on Joliet Place in Lafayette Park near downtown Detroit.
Police said a verbal confrontation between neighbors escalated into the shootings.
Police said a 27-year-old suspect shot and killed a 42-year-old man outside his apartment, then went inside and shot a man in his early 60s, then took his own life.
Neighbors identified the first victim as Kevin Johnson, a local documentary film producer.
Witnesses said Johnson was hosting a holiday gathering with his wife, daughter and friends when an argument with the suspect started.
Witnesses said they heard screams and five to 10 gunshots.
One of Johnson’s neighbors, Robert Andres, said he heard the gunshots and ran outside.
“I saw the man lying on the lawn in front of the townhouse over there and called 911,” Andres said.
Another neighbor, Rebecca Dudash, tried to perform CPR.
“I went over there and tried to administer first aide. I checked his pulse, but he was already gone,” Dudash said.
Dudash said Johnson had a gunshot wound to the head.
Police said they found the suspect dead in his apartment with a weapon next to his hand.
Investigators said they’re working to determine a motive for the murders.

Ah yes, and in one of the "Green Zones" of Detroit.

Shit like this happens in the entire country of Canada, what, once a year? Yet in Detroit this is a daily occurance. That is the sad part: There is nothing "crazy" about this in the parallel universe that is Detroit. This is completely status quo.

There is a serious culture of violence among the people of Detroit. I'm a bleeding heart but you can't excuse away behavior like this day in and day out with, "Oh, but they're poor." Tough shit. Get a job, have some respect, or just turn the gun on yourself and do the world a favor. I'm sick of the shootings, the robberies, the break-ins, the muggings, the scrapping.

[REL]

A double-murder suicide is NOT a daily occurrence in Detroit.

[BShea]

I walked into the middle of this yesterday shortly after the special-response team had fired tear gas and flash-bang grenades inside the townhouse and stormed inside. There was no police scene tape up and no officers to keep people back [[except from Rivard). Another neighbor told me he walked his dog through the scene and some little old ladies wandered through. It was very surreal. I came around a bush and there was the armored car about 20 feet in front of me, with a cop in helmet and gas mask sticking out of the top turret hole [[I think he had been the one to fire the stuff inside the second floor, judging by the angle and proximity).

From all I've read and those I've talked to at the scene [[I live nearby), this was something that could have happened anywhere. This wasn't your stock urban street crime. It just happened to have happened this time in L.P.

I was told by people who live there that it took the special-response team 2 to 3 hours to show up. I don't know if that's true or not. I walked over there about 3:30ish. Kevin's body was still on the lawn and uncovered and the SWAT guys were wrapping up and left about 20 minutes later. The crime-scene investigators and mobile police command vehicle showed up about that time.

A really disturbing and sad incident.

[313WX]

Detroit - Them people is living in Mad Max times.

How sad. [[or pathetic)

Ha!!!

I see you also watched The Simpsons episode last night.

[313WX]

Get a job...

Easier said than done.

A lot of these people would love to "get a job" if there actually were some.

And even if there were jobs, they're all in the suburbs and we already know who's getting the first crack at those.

[GOAT]

I laughed so hard when that was said. And sadly I don't think Moe was that far off the mark. Bart was right on the money though.

[bailey]

I laughed so hard when that was said. And sadly I don't think Moe was that far off the mark. Bart was right on the money though.

I'm surprised it's not a three page, angst ridden, thread about how the media is mean to Detroit and someone should write a letter.

[Elouise]

Much of the information given in the above posts is not true. I live very close and watched it happen. The police were there within a very short time period. People can enter our property from many entrances and police were stopping people and redirecting them. The street was closed. As I understand it at the moment, this involved a person with mental problems. Our neighborhood is trying to deal with this senseless tragedy which is the worst thing by far that has ever occurred in this wonderful neigborhood since I moved here 20 years ago. Many people are very upset, including the family of the victims, so please keep that in mind when you make comments.

[Django]

the victims, so please keep that in mind when you make comments.

What she said^

[English]

Much of the information given in the above posts is not true. I live very close and watched it happen. The police were there within a very short time period. People can enter our property from many entrances and police were stopping people and redirecting them. The street was closed. As I understand it at the moment, this involved a person with mental problems. Our neighborhood is trying to deal with this senseless tragedy which is the worst thing by far that has ever occurred in this wonderful neigborhood since I moved here 20 years ago. Many people are very upset, including the family of the victims, so please keep that in mind when you make comments.

Thank you, Elouise. My condolences to your neighbors' families, and for the peace of mind of all those in LP.

[HazenPingree]

Detroit - Them people is living in Mad Max times.

Good Simpson's reference.

[Gianni]

What Elouise, Django and English said^

I'm not going to write a 3 page angst ridden post about why the media are mean to Detroit. But based on the media reports and many of the above comments one would think that this was just another day in thug town, two neighbors shooting it up after a rowdy paartay.

This is what happens when you combine sloppy reporting + readers with stereotypes about Detroit who jump to easy conclusions. In this case, at least, the media were not "mean," just sloppy, lazy, in too much of a hurry or all of the above.

I was there. All day. What really happenned can't be explained rationally except as a result of a severe psychotic or schizophrenic breakdown. So when you say "that's crazy," it really was. That is the only way it makes sense. These were no thugs. The victim was a well respected local film and video producer who loved our neighborhood and had lived there most of his life. The shooter was his next door neighbor, a 27 year old who had recently finished his masters degree and was living with his father. There is a history of mental illness in the family.

What happened based on many reports:

There was no party, except perhaps a Thanksgiving Day family dinner three days earlier. It was Sunday morning. Many neighbors were on their way to or from church. At about 10:15 am the shooter knocked on Kevin's front door and was invited in. He appeared tense and angry. He was twitching. He was complaining "what's up with the noise?" There was no noise. He had a gun. Kevin and his wife tried to reason with him and talk him down. He did not respond except to say "it's too late for that." When it was obvious the situation was not improving, Kevin said to his wife "run" and they both ran outside. The shooter followed, and shot and killed Kevin. Kevin's wife ran the other way and was rescued by another neighbor. The shooter then went back inside his unit next door.

The police and EMS showed up right away. Officers were posted around the building and tried to keep people away. It did take a long time for the SWAT team to show up, not sure why. But eventually there were police everywhere, area cordoned off with yellow tape and no one allowed past the perimiter, flak jackets, helmets, gas masks, shields, guys on rooftops with machine guns, the tank, the mobile police station, "come out with your hands up," gas grenades shot into the building, you name it. This went on for several hours. Eventually they went in and found the shooter and his father both dead.

I know that we have more crime in Detroit than most places. But this truly could have happened anywhere.

Our proud, beautiful and almost always peaceful neighborhood is grieving.

To those want to think this is just another gangsta rap verse about Detroit -- get a life. Or at least keep your moronic comments to yourself.

[gnome]

I believe Kevin lived in his parent's old unit. IIRC Kevin moved there in the early 70's. This all very sad.

[REL]

Shame on you guys. Simpsons references aren't funny in this context. These are real people who died, obviously under tragic circumstances. Before you start shooting your mouths off, get the whole story and don't jump to conclusions.

Besides, even if it was random, or whatever other circumstances you deem somehow unworthy of attention, those are all still someone's children.

[Alley]

This is just too sad and crazy :<
A friend of mine went to school with and was good friends with the shooter, said he "was a great person. just fell into the darkness i guess." His father was good friends with the victim.

[lilpup]

sounds like schizophrenia

[Ravine]

Shame on you guys. Simpsons references aren't funny in this context. These are real people who died, obviously under tragic circumstances. Before you start shooting your mouths off, get the whole story and don't jump to conclusions.

Besides, even if it was random, or whatever other circumstances you deem somehow unworthy of attention, those are all still someone's children.

That's fine; you are making a good point.
The thing is that bringing things up in an internet forum-- even this one, which sometimes fancies itself as holding to some standard of civility-- opens those things up to comments of all kinds.
At the time of the "Simpsons" reference, no personal connection, between the incident and anyone in this forum, had been established.
While GOAT & I have butted heads [[heh) on numerous occasions, I really doubt that GOAT would have tossed in that remark if GOAT realized that anyone here had been personally effected by the incident.
But, this advice...
"Before you start shooting your mouths off, get the whole story and don't jump to conclusions"
...goes up against the very fabric of internet forums, with this one included; in fact, DY may be one of the "worst offenders" in that department.
Shooting one's mouth off is, arguably, one of the pillars which holds up these forums, and I think we all know that such mouth-shooting goes hand-in-hand with jumping to conclusions.
As for getting "the whole story," it is very unlikely that, outside of maybe a few official investigators, anyone who was not personally involved in the incident will be so informed, even after taking in whatever media reports may follow, so folks are left to comment on whatever information is at their immediate disposal.
A little sensitivity goes a long way, of course, but I wouldn't expect to find it here any more than I would expect to gain access to "the whole story" from anyone here.
After all, one person's "stripper" is another person's "exotic dancer" is yet another person's daughter or mother, but make no mistake: we ain't all family, here, and this is no church, dinner table, or even a coffee-house. It's an internet forum, and despite the enforced politesse [[which accomplishes little more than to persuade folks to write their savage sentiments in a verbally-airbrushed fashion, with the mean-spiritedness still utterly clear between the lines,) it acts like one.
In other words, being in the middle of the street means dodging cars, and while some drivers are more considerate than others, none of them told anyone to hang around in traffic.

[Elouise]

As I said in an above post, I watched this happen and I want to clarify a couple of things. I heard the shots and within minutes I heard sirens. It could have been 5 or 10 minutes, I'm not sure, but not very long. And within a half hour, there were police officers all over the property. We have heavy landscaping, many buildings and a large park. Police did not know where the shooter was at that moment and they looked for a long time. I assume that at a some point they decided he was in his building and that is when they called in the swat team and they used a loudspeaker asking the shooter to come out. This went on for hours and then they moved the operation to the end of the street but left police officers in front on top of the buildings as other police officers entered the building from the back. It seemed to me that there was a clear plan and that it moved from one stage to the next until it was over. I don't have any complaints about how the Detroit Police Department handled the situation.

[REL]

You're right, Ravine. This forum has the unalienable right to shove the bar as low as it wants to.

[GOAT]

Absolutely Ravine. I would never try to make light of somone else's pain, especially with the loss of loved ones in such a tragic way.

But the fact remains that death by shooting in Detroit is a regular occurance and that is why I stated the Simpson's episode. Residents shouldn't have to put up with it.

I apologize to those people who were intimately affected by this shooting. Those who were there or knew the victims. It wasn't my intent to make light of that situation but instead to bring to light the random violence and how it is tolerated in this city [[where it woldn't be in most).


What I find harder to understand is the mindset of others who don't know anyone in shooting and yet get cross with what is written. Perhaps that anger would be better served by going to the media, city hall, state or even federal level or organizing groups to put an end to the violence that plagues Detroit everyday. Instead I guess it's easier to post on a forum rather than to actually do something and make those changes.

Finally I will point out that no one argued the reference wasn't true. After reading of the shooting at Eastland Mall as well, it does give one to ponder...

[Ravine]

You're right, Ravine. This forum has the unalienable right to shove the bar as low as it wants to.

Your left-handed acknowledgement is duly noted, but I was serious, and that's the point: There is no bar. There is the illusion of a bar.