Shootings at Eastland Mall

[bartock]

http://www.freep.com/article/2010112...hooting-sought

This has made national news. Another person was murdered at 8/Kelly "Eastland Mall" in September. This is more than troubling, and not on a city/suburb basis [[I work downtown and love seeing/hearing about progress there, but there is zero perspective form anyone living in its population of 6,000 and using this as some sort of "nah nah nah nah nah" about the suburbs). The crime in this area is where the populations are, and the gangs taking to Eastland are ensuring that this hanging on, but utilized, shopping district, is next to go. From what I've gotten talking to others closer to the mall here, the shootings are numerous and not really publicized because it only makes news when someone gets hit. Macy's, I believe, is now going to be gone, as folks like myself who bring their kids [[in daylight) to this mall and this center will no longer, and I've already decided that the Target and Lowe's less than a mile from my house will be "second string", or strictly on an urgant basis to others further north. I have noticed, and assumed as a cost-cutting measure, that the once very visible security at Eastland has been hard to find the last couple of years. Despite some myths to the contrary, I have found these far east side areas of Harper Woods, SCS and the Pointes to be far more supportive of the City of Detroit than the Woodward Corridor suburbs where I've also lived.

[Patrick]

Despite some myths to the contrary, I have found these far east side areas of Harper Woods, SCS and the Pointes to be far more supportive of the City of Detroit than the Woodward Corridor suburbs where I've also lived.

That's a fact really. They have to be supportive since they border a greater chunk of Detroit than say...Ferndale. In the end, the Eastland shootings seem to be an example of a few nimrods trying to "keep it real" or at least create a "hood" rep. It was probably over a chick or some ganj.

[JBMcB]

I have noticed, and assumed as a cost-cutting measure, that the once very visible security at Eastland has been hard to find the last couple of years.

I know someone in the Harper Woods police department. Eastland has it's own squad, lately I think they have been doing more undercover work trying to catch shoplifters. Mall security might be diminishing, but the police are trying hard to keep things under control.

They'll have to do what Fairlane did if they want to turn things around - pump a dozen or two more LE officers in there, kick the kids out after dark, kick troublemakers out at the slightest provocation, etc...

It's pretty bad - I remember riding my bike there when I was a kid. A bunch of us would have an ice cream at the Sanders, then pick up the latest Nintendo game from Kay-Bee or Electronics Boutique.

[Patrick]

I do know that the Target at EL has one of the highest theft rates in the country and has had it for quite some time. This info comes straight from a Target employee who worked there and eventually did the corporate gig in Twim Cities. It is also a really nice store and is well-kept up.

[Buy American]

I stopped going to Eastland back in the late 80's because of problems with young thugs who were always there looking for trouble. To be having a gunfight at 6PM with hundreds of people shopping there is absolutely crazy. These thugs have no value for human life and they base their macismo on the size of their gun. Animals!!!

[Dave70]

Numerous shootings at Eastland, damn, it's crazy how bad an area can get in so little time. I'm talkin' less than 20 years.

I used to work across the street from the mall, it didn't seem that bad in '99 even.

[Zacha341]

I've long given up on Eastland period, I just don't feel comfortable and I find it smallish and the parking lots cramped. I prefer Fairlane where police presences is 'vigilant' and 'visible', unapologetically so.

A nuisance for the teens, I'm sure -- a plus for adults who want to shop in peace and not dodge bullets or be trampled in a melee. Mostly I prefer strip malls, where I am less a 'captive' audience should some mess jump off.

Yes, Eastland is going to have to go the route of the full sweeps, and teen curfues as Fairlane applied when it was heading down this road. It's not perfect but I feel a bit safer. I like Oakland too.

I know someone in the Harper Woods police department. Eastland has it's own squad, lately I think they have been doing more undercover work trying to catch shoplifters. Mall security might be diminishing, but the police are trying hard to keep things under control.

They'll have to do what Fairlane did if they want to turn things around - pump a dozen or two more LE officers in there, kick the kids out after dark, kick troublemakers out at the slightest provocation, etc...

It's pretty bad - I remember riding my bike there when I was a kid. A bunch of us would have an ice cream at the Sanders, then pick up the latest Nintendo game from Kay-Bee or Electronics Boutique.

[English]

I stopped going to Eastland back in the late 80's because of problems with young thugs who were always there looking for trouble. To be having a gunfight at 6PM with hundreds of people shopping there is absolutely crazy. These thugs have no value for human life and they base their macismo on the size of their gun. Animals!!!

No, they're still people. Stop insulting animals. Human beings can be [[and have been) far worse to each other than that.

The rationale of these young people for behaving this way is that no one gives a damn about them, so they don't give a damn about anyone. Why don't we stop playing the games we've been playing for the past 40 years and figure out why our incarceration rate is higher than any other industrialized society?

Or maybe we'll continue to point fingers at those people, and continue to move away from what we consider other people's problems...

[Patrick]

The rationale of these young people for behaving this way is that no one gives a damn about them, so they don't give a damn about anyone.

It starts at home before anything...before society even begins to care about some punk. Did these punks have a nomal childhood? Supportive parents? Blaming society is just one way of doing things and a cop out in many ways. Now, blaming the parents works much better. I can bet you will see the perp's supporters saying he was a good kid and church-going and all that.

In the end, these guys knew what the hell they were doing...they knew right from wrong so now they are responsible for their actions. They just decided to keep their shit real.

[Buy American]

No, they're still people. Stop insulting animals. Human beings can be [[and have been) far worse to each other than that.

The rationale of these young people for behaving this way is that no one gives a damn about them, so they don't give a damn about anyone. Why don't we stop playing the games we've been playing for the past 40 years and figure out why our incarceration rate is higher than any other industrialized society?

Or maybe we'll continue to point fingers at those people, and continue to move away from what we consider other people's problems...

I've never been a believer of passing the buck to someone else. Responsibility for the actions of these "people" begin right in the parents laps; not mine, not the teachers, not the schools...not the church!
Take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming others....and, yes, I will continue to move away from those people because I live like a human being and that's more than I can say for those "people".

[gdogslim]

Look at the security they hire, lame, they drive around the parking lot in circles. Security in the mall sucks if any. Almost no one from St Clair Shores or Grosse Pointe shops there anymore.

[Meddle]

This has made national news.

Yeah, but I'm not sure why. It seems like kind if a non -story, except maybe for the holiday shopping angle.

[mikefmich]

I graduated from HW....used to walk to Kresges counter for lunch in HS. BBQ & Root Beer was 42 cents. My first real job was there at Sanders while I was in college.

But while still living in MI, I quit shopping there many many years ago. It was getting ruffian orientated back then.

This stuff kinda boggles my mind in HW. I fully now know why my ma would moan when going thru her old neighborhood a block from Packard in the 60's.

Time marches on.

[DetroitDad]

I felt the same way when they tore down Livonia Mall and Wonderland Mall, and stopped doing the Livonia Thanksgiving Day Parade. It was even more depressing when I grew up and learned that all that was just a microcosmic reincarnation of something far more grand.

See, we actually have a few different tragedies here. You have the destruction of the city, of course, and the children who have to grow up among gun fire and violence, throw away children, as they're called. Then you have the destruction of the rural living arrangement, as it was basically paved over and replaced with suburbia. Then you have the tragedy that is suburbia. Suburbia was supposed to be country living with all the benefits of urbanity. But today, little of that holds true. The tragedy of suburbia is found in the tragedy of the commons, but more importantly, it can be found in the financial situation suburbanite consumers now face. Today, suburban families are like fields and fields of batteries.... Mom and Dad now have to both have jobs with no one left to watch the kids. Sheltered with no guidance might as well be the motto of a people who purposely buy homes in neighborhoods with no sidewalks, so that their children will not be enticed to wonder away. I actually wrote a blog post on that very issue some time ago, here. It is a tragedy.

I graduated from HW....used to walk to Kresges counter for lunch in HS. BBQ & Root Beer was 42 cents. My first real job was there at Sanders while I was in college.

But while still living in MI, I quit shopping there many many years ago. It was getting ruffian orientated back then.

This stuff kinda boggles my mind in HW. I fully now know why my ma would moan when going thru her old neighborhood a block from Packard in the 60's.

Time marches on.

You guys, we gave it all away somehow. Does anyone else feel like something has gone horribly wrong with America? Are we collectively not on the right path? These criminals and terrorists are evil and/or stupid, but maybe there is a message in their destructiveness that we are not seeing? Is someone trying to reach us or tell us something that we can't see?

Echo!

HELLO!?

Echo... sorry I got a little carried away there.


Sincerely,

Sean_of_Detroit

[gdogslim]

The problem is the government is subsidizing women who do not have husbands.

[DetroitDad]

The problem is the government is subsidizing women who do not have husbands.

That may or may not be true, depending on your individual view. I'm not sure we can assume such things apply, but I agree that fathers not being present in the home is an issue in enough homes to call it a problem. The whole reason I chose the name DetroitDad wasn't just because I am a dad. When you Google DetroitDad, you used to get a bunch of really tragic and horrific stories. Now, that has changed.

I believe in self fulfilling prophecy. We are whatever people say we are.

PS: Does anyone know how '"Girl In The D" is doing with the newish additions? Her blog helped me get interested in the D, but now it's growing so cold around here.... They say you can feel such energy leave. Those times back then, we lost so many at once for one reason or another. Where are all of you? Where did you go to? Gone, but never forgotten is a popular phrase in times like these.

[stasu1213]

I put the blame on the young men. The buck stops there. It is true that you have parents or parent who do a lousy job in raising their children for the parents are unruly and uncouth also. There are times when young people give in to their peers despite some of the proper upbringing. I say come down hard on these young people such as Fairlaine had done. Have a more gun carrying security patrolling the halls of the mall with a heavy presence. Authorities should not be soft on the perps when the perps are caught. Send a message to potential hoodlums who want to ruin a fine shopping center as they had ruin their own neighborhoods and surrounding. You take you with you I had always say. You could take a pig; clean him up; brush his teeth and put a bow on him and he would still slop up the area that he is in and dirty himself up for he is a pig

[mauser]

Harper Woods aint exactly "suburbs" by the dictionary definition. It is an urban neighborhood city. It sucks here, and it scares me.

This is straight up gang violence, not 'two groups of rival teens' as the impotent HW police babbled about on the television. The recent hit by the front door was also gang violence. The HW police downplay this because they are not equipped, manned or trained to handle and gang issues, nor the cultural divide issues between the disparate economic groups in this area.

[ja!mz]

How sad what HarperWoods has become, along with Eastpointe. Both cities have become increasingly unsafe over the last 15 years or so. The Black flight from Detroit is directly responsible IMHO. I remember shopping at Eastland before it was enclosed in the '70's it was a state of the art mall at one time. There is a rumor that Easpointe will change its name back to East Detroit to fit the current times. Harpor Woods will also be known as Lil' Detroit. Its sad to see these cities circling the drain to inevitably end up in the cess pool with Detroit.

[Danny]

Crime happens everywhere. Detroit, suburbs and even the Amish country. People's hearts had been hardened becuase THEY want, even they have to break the rules in our decent society. When security and law enforcement becomes less serious, [[ As in make deals with criminals), terrorism will go up.

[bailey]

Harper Woods— A day after a shooting at Eastland Center left two people wounded, including a store employee, merchants worried the recent violence at or near the mall will kill the holiday season.
"Why would [[shoppers) choose this mall, when they can go to another mall where nothing's happening?" asked Will Lazri, owner of Dollar Land at Eastland. "This is not good for business."
Advertisement

The mall had light traffic Sunday on what normally is a brisk shopping day during the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.
The shooting, which left terrified shoppers and employees scrambling and ducking for cover, is the third at the mall in two months.
On Friday, shots rang out at a bus stop. In September, a man was shot dead while sitting in his car outside a mall entrance.
Representatives for Jones Lang LaSalle, the company that manages the mall, and Harper Woods Police refused to comment on Saturday's shooting.
Ellen Hines-Johnson, an 82-year-old Detroit resident, went to Eastland, on Eight Mile near Interstate 94, to shop with her daughter and three grandsons.
"I brought my grandsons along for two reasons," she said Sunday morning. "One, for protection and, two, to carry the groceries."
Hines-Johnson wasn't alone in her concern following Saturday's shooting.
Felicia Maximin of Ontario said she wouldn't have gone to the mall if she had heard about the shooting.
"I come here all the time, but I wouldn't be here if I had heard," said Maximin, 25. "I thought this was a nice place to shop."
Around 6 p.m. Saturday, two groups of youths started arguing. Soon after, shots were fired, leaving shoppers terrified.
Witnesses told police two members of one of the groups pulled out handguns and fired four to six rounds, striking an 18-year-old male in the chest. A second victim, a 35-year-old mall employee, was shot in the leg while standing in front of his store.
....
From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101129/...#ixzz16gBc208N

..it goes on to sum up the rash of shootings. It really is kind of amazing how fast that mall has declined.

Whoops. completely did not see the other thread.

[Patrick]

It sucks here, and it scares me.

Whenever I would drive through HW, it always looks like it is well-kept and in order. there isn't a "ghetto" feel about it at all. it is leafy and clean. However, lately I have heard a lot of bad stories coming from HW.

[Zimm]

PS: Does anyone know how '"Girl In The D" is doing with the newish additions? Her blog helped me get interested in the D, but now it's growing so cold around here.... They say you can feel such energy leave. Those times back then, we lost so many at once for one reason or another. Where are all of you? Where did you go to? Gone, but never forgotten is a popular phrase in times like these.

wait,are you implying that it's so cold in the D?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aktLRiWXfqg

[bartock]

Harper Woods aint exactly "suburbs" by the dictionary definition. It is an urban neighborhood city. It sucks here, and it scares me.

This is straight up gang violence, not 'two groups of rival teens' as the impotent HW police babbled about on the television. The recent hit by the front door was also gang violence. The HW police downplay this because they are not equipped, manned or trained to handle and gang issues, nor the cultural divide issues between the disparate economic groups in this area.

I still like it here, but there are more and more incidents at the mall and in the neighborhood ocurring. In as much as crime can happen anywhere, I'm not going to purposely put my children in a place where the odds of becoming a victim are significantly higher. At this point, our house is too small for five anyway, but we're moving out as soon as we can. Unfortunately, our house is worth 40% of what we paid for it, not all due to the economy. You would think that there would be a better market for neighborhoods with streetlights and sidewalks.

I think the HW police downplay it to protect [[what is probably) the city's largest taxpayer. However, this is a reflection of the neighborhoods as well. You are right...this IS straight up gang violence, and needs to be purged. These kids walk up and down Beaconsfield all the time now, and it doesn't surprise me that the woman was carjacked in her driveway several weeks ago.

[Melody]

I do know that the Target at EL has one of the highest theft rates in the country and has had it for quite some time. This info comes straight from a Target employee who worked there and eventually did the corporate gig in Twim Cities. It is also a really nice store and is well-kept up.

The Target at Eastland is well-kept up? No, it isn't. There are always clothes everywhere - on the floor, draped over hangers, stuff miss-marked. They also don't have much of the variety that most Targets have, and the service is slow.

I loved Eastland. I felt like I grew up there. I went there in September and it broke my heart to see the mall in such terrible condition [[even the Macy's!). I probably will never go back.