Breaking News: Michigan Out of Money For Roads

[BrushStart]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20101...evenue-shrinks

Michigan could see half of its road construction budget disappear by 2012. The shortage is expected to swell to $120 million, leaving scores of repair projects unfinished.

In other news, Tri-County Executives push for more suburban development. According to sources interviewed, the "growth machine" will save us.

[Johnnny5]

So gasoline taxes account for 47% of the funding while diesel taxes cover the remaining 3% ???????????? WTF???????????

How about fairly taxing the vehicles that are damaging our roads? It's bad enough we have the highest weight ratings in the country, it just adds insult to injury that Michigan truckers are only chipping in 3% of the budget through diesel taxes.




"According to an MDOT report, 65 percent of its budget came from gasoline taxes, while 32 percent was from vehicle registration fees in 1997. By 2007, it was 52 and 45 percent, respectively, and MDOT predicts the ratio will be 48 and 49 percent, respectively, by 2012. The remaining budget is made up by the diesel fuel tax, plus a diesel carrier tax and licenses. "

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101123/...#ixzz167RGZmZS

[Detroitnerd]

Huh? I thought roads "paid for themselves"!

[bailey]

So gasoline taxes account for 47% of the funding while diesel taxes cover the remaining 3% ???????????? WTF???????????

How about fairly taxing the vehicles that are damaging our roads? It's bad enough we have the highest weight ratings in the country, it just adds insult to injury that Michigan truckers are only chipping in 3% of the budget through diesel taxes.




"According to an MDOT report, 65 percent of its budget came from gasoline taxes, while 32 percent was from vehicle registration fees in 1997. By 2007, it was 52 and 45 percent, respectively, and MDOT predicts the ratio will be 48 and 49 percent, respectively, by 2012. The remaining budget is made up by the diesel fuel tax, plus a diesel carrier tax and licenses. "

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101123/...#ixzz167RGZmZS

Without making this a Rail vs Roads argument--- the silliness of the 2x weight allowance AND only 3% coming from diesel is just stupid. You want a new revenue stream, there it is. Who wants to bet that the Repubs demand a cut to both the gas and diesel tax because it's a "small business killer"?

[iheartthed]

Sounds like they are aiming to raid the sales tax fund:

"We pay a sales tax on gasoline here in Michigan, but that money doesn't go toward transportation, but maybe it should," said the transportation association's Nystrom. "If we pay taxes on auto-related items like gasoline, maybe it should be redirected to auto-related expenditures like the roads."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101123/...#ixzz167asDVqZ

[R8RBOB]

Looks like soon to be Governor Snyder will have to find new ways to get money to fix those raggedy roads. He wanted the job, he got it.

[iheartthed]

Huh? I thought roads "paid for themselves"!

I think it's pretty amusing that Michigan spends on roads in a year what it would cost to build an actual subway line along Woodward Avenue... Yet they claim not to be able to afford the subway.

[Danny]

YAY! Now you all know what happen to all of out tax money! In the politicians wallets.

[Goose]

although diesel accounts for 3% of the revenue, that stat alone is meaningless, what percentage of fuel sales that is taxed does diesel account for?

[casscorridor]

Part of the problem is our road system is too big and our over-all transportation system is unsustainable. It is not just a matter of gas prices or taxes. It has to do with the system itself and how it is built and structured and maintained.

Taking cars and trucks off the road will mean less money spent on maintinence. But this requires alternatives to driving. Dare I say the word rail, but it is exactly what we need. And not just rail either, but more buses, more bike routes, and more pedestrian friendly and transit-oriented neighborhoods. More people would opt to not drive and take stress of the roads.

We also have to rethink interstate freight, but this is more of a national issue. Trains are far more efficient than trucks for traveling between cities. Once in a city, trucks can be used to transport a product to its destination. Using trucks the whole way is inefficient and ultimatelty unsustainable. Trucks make up a huge precentage of stress to the roads.

[EastSider]

Sounds like they are aiming to raid the sales tax fund:

"We pay a sales tax on gasoline here in Michigan, but that money doesn't go toward transportation, but maybe it should," said the transportation association's Nystrom. "If we pay taxes on auto-related items like gasoline, maybe it should be redirected to auto-related expenditures like the roads."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20101123/...#ixzz167asDVqZ

Not only do we pay sales tax, but that tax is calculated on the price of gas after the other taxes are included. So, raising either the state or federal gas tax automatically increases the sales tax revenue.

[Russix]

Aren’t we suppose to be letting the free market take over? Seems like heavily subsidized freeways are losing out to privately owned railroads. Either we let the freeways fail or start charging per-user fees.

[bailey]

Aren’t we suppose to be letting the free market take over? Seems like heavily subsidized freeways are losing out to privately owned railroads. Either we let the freeways fail or start charging per-user fees.

Or we start charging the heavy haulers the real cost of allowing them on the roads. Equalize the diesel and gas taxes and cut the weight limit by 1/2 . [[not that it solves everything, but c'mon lets not subsidize them anymore)

[sirrealone]

There are days where the price of a gallon will jump twenty cents over a 24 hour period. We deal with it, right? A five cent increase wouldn't even be noticeable to the average consumer. We have the roads and we need to maintain them. This costs more to do than it did fifteen years ago.

I agree that diesel should be raised to the same or higher level than regular gas since most diesel usage is by the heavy trucks and haulers that wear out the roads at a much faster rate.

I understand the logic in making the states contribute before the federal monies kick in, but in a time of declining revenues, I think this needs to be re-evaluated. It seems b.s. to me that a $50 mil shortfall will take a way half a billion a year, not to mention that the half a billion will then go to other states who are already in better shape to begin with.

[DetroitPlanner]

Aren’t we suppose to be letting the free market take over? Seems like heavily subsidized freeways are losing out to privately owned railroads. Either we let the freeways fail or start charging per-user fees.

Vehicle registrations and fuel taxes are user fees. If you don't drive or own a vehicle, you don't pay them. The problem is two-fold. First cars are getting smaller and getting better gas milage. Secondly there are less people driving on the roads now than before. This could be because they have moved out of state to find employment or do not have the money to afford a car any longer and must rely on the bus. Put these two together and the taxes are being double-whammied.

Note that approximately 10 percent of these revenues are dedicated to public transportation, so when the amount funding goes down for highways it will also go down for transit. One percent of the funds are used for non-motorized, this pot also goes down. Therefore without fixing this problem you can realistically say goodbye to any meaningful transit improvements, particularly when we can't even get the state to pass legislation to allow transit authorities.

Issues that need to be looked at are very unpopular. How do we make it so that users of the transportation pay thier fair share? What kind of mechanisms can be put into place to charge people who use thier bikes? Riders are not paying the true cost of the trip on transit so how can we get them to lobby for effective changes unless they start feeling it in the pocketbook? While Hybrids and vehicles like the Volt are wonderful things, they will not pay nearly as much into the system as the cars that they will replace, but they will enable people to sprawl further out due to the reduced cost of energy. The cost for cars needs to change too. Not too many people understand that the gas tax is what is known as ad volerem. This is a fancy word for saying that the gast tax was 19 cents was gasoline was selling for a buck in 1997 and it is 19 cents when gas was selling for $4.50 in 2008. It also means that these are the only taxes dedicated for transportation in the State.

[lilpup]

I think it's pretty amusing that Michigan spends on roads in a year what it would cost to build an actual subway line along Woodward Avenue... Yet they claim not to be able to afford the subway.

As if the only road in the state is a short stretch of Woodward Avenue.

I'm all for halting any residential [[and possibly business space) development that would require new public roads or other tax funded infrastructure. Funding should go for maintenance of the existing systems and even then some of that not regularly used could revert back to gravel or dirt.

[Hypestyles]

..This is why mass transit development is necessary.. american roads are built like lightbulbs, instead of like in Europe, where they last a lot longer..

[Detroitnerd]

I'm all for halting any residential [[and possibly business space) development that would require new public roads or other tax funded infrastructure. Funding should go for maintenance of the existing systems and even then some of that not regularly used could revert back to gravel or dirt.

That is already well under way. Any other bright ideas?

For Immediate Release
February 2, 2010


Contact: Monica Ware
mware@localroads.net


Returning to the Stone Age
County Road Agencies in Michigan Suffer from Lack of Funding

Lansing, Mich-- The County Road Association of Michigan [[CRAM) today announced the results of their annual survey to determine the state of Michigan’s crumbling county road and bridge network. Over the past three years, the number of county road agencies returning paved roads to gravel has more than tripled.
Thirty eight counties have now returned more than 100 miles of paved roads to gravel; approximately 35 miles in 2009 alone. Results indicate that by 2010, half of Michigan’s county road agencies will be faced with the decision of moving backward to maintain their infrastructure.

[lilpup]

don't see anything there about halting new development

There's no reason, other than greed money-stuffing pockets, to have all the new builds in N. Oakland, Livingston, etc. while Detroit goes empty.

Mass transit isn't going to stop it and mass transit isn't free. It will just be yet another unmaintained financial sinkhole.

[Detroitnerd]

don't see anything there about halting new development

It addresses your last point.

"Funding should go for maintenance of the existing systems and even then some of that not regularly used could revert back to gravel or dirt."

Look at it another way: In 1910, we had one mile of concrete road in the state. The rest were gravel or dirt or planks. On the other hand, we had one of the best combined railroad, interurban and streetcar systems in the world. Detroit's interurban went as far as Jackson, Port Huron, Toledo, etc. Most of the major thoroughfares in Detroit had electrified rail. Development was tight and finite, as people lived where transit was and commuted by various rail modes.

Then, in 1911, the United States embarked on a dramatic effort to build good roads. It wasn't spearheaded by the auto industry, but by bicyclists and good-government advocates. Road-building was the largest business in the United States in the 1910s, and kept expanding over the next 90 years.

So, it took us 100 years of cheap oil and constant work to build a spread-out system of roads -- that we now cannot afford. There is no miracle fuel coming to save us. We will not be able to sustain all these roads that we have built. Already, many are reverting to gravel and dirt. We will need to rebuild our transportation network to deal with the coming scarcity and changing public tastes. Or we can just go down the tubes trying to gut it out with a car-only system we can't pay for. We need other modes to take pressure off the road-and-car-only system.

So how do you get from here to there? How do we take our sprawling environment in southeastern Michigan and redensify it? The only way it will happen is incrementally. You have to start somewhere, and Woodward is an excellent place to begin. There's no way to build mass transit systems in every city in Michigan -- at least not initially. What we can do, however, is start to consciously work for a denser metro Detroit, lay some rail, and create a functioning city. This will help curb sprawl and take pressure off road funding for the spread-out, outstate places that really need to rely upon the automobile.

[hamtown mike]

although diesel accounts for 3% of the revenue, that stat alone is meaningless, what percentage of fuel sales that is taxed does diesel account for?

"Fairness" can only be found in percentages, not in gross amounts.

[lilpup]

Not rehashing that debate with you here, Detroitnerd. I've already pointed out the fallacies of your pipedream on the mass transit thread.

[Detroitnerd]

Not rehashing that debate with you here, Detroitnerd. I've already pointed out the fallacies of your pipedream on the mass transit thread.

Actually, no, you didn't. You grabbed your marbles and stalked off in a huff. Anyway, the facts are there anytime you care to look at them.

[kraig]

..This is why mass transit development is necessary.. american roads are built like lightbulbs, instead of like in Europe, where they last a lot longer..

Speaking of european roads, I-75 was built using the two lift paving system and hasn't had any problems since. It cost twice as much but will last five or six times longer.

[GOAT]

Yeah go after the truck drivers and freight companies. Then watch prices skyrocket, truck driving jobs disappear, and the roads continue to crumble.

Great idea!