Pistons sale talks bogged down, Davidson turns to previous bidders

**BShea** · November-11-10, 05:07 PM

Is it a negotiating ploy? Will Tom Gores ended up as the owner? Stay tuned.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ks-with-ilitch

**401don** · November-11-10, 06:21 PM

I'm guessing that Ilitch's financial people, led by Tom Wilson, know that the NBA near term financial outlook is not good. There's a pending labor dispute, attendance is nosediving around the league and the recession means ticket prices have come down as well. Ilitch would be smart to low ball his offer, hoping Davidson is starting to bleed cash with this year's team and wants out in a hurry.
I also think the Pistons were lucky that the Bad Boys came along shortly after moving to the Palace and just as things were getting grim they followed the Grant Hill era with another championship team.
I don't think people will be willing to drive and park at the Palace at 50 bucks a seat if the team remains mediocre for a few years. Basketball is very hard to rebuild if you don't sink to the basement, get lucky with draft picks and have the kind of city that's attractive to free agents. The Pistons and their fans have had it great for a long stretch. So what do you do to build excitement? You build a new stadium downtown. [[see Lions and Tigers).

**Hypestyles** · November-11-10, 06:42 PM

I hope that the talks resume with Ilitch and company, I want the Pistons to eventually come downtown

gdogslim · November-11-10, 09:22 PM

even the multi millionaires are hurting these days

Blarf · November-11-10, 10:33 PM

Lets hope Illitch doesn't get the Pistons. Every multi-use arena is shitty. The Wings need to have their own joint.

**rbdetsport** · November-11-10, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Blarf

Lets hope Illitch doesn't get the Pistons. Every multi-use arena is shitty. The Wings need to have their own joint.

You are in denial if you think that is possible. It is either a joint arena or no new arena at this point. There are not many cities left that have 4 separate stadiums/arenas. It just is not sustainable these days. The way Ilitch will get the funding for a new arena is if BOTH the Pistons and Wings are playing there.

woodwardboy · November-11-10, 10:49 PM

No public money for this stuff. If Illitch wants a new stadium, let him finance it with private funds.

Blarf · November-11-10, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by rbdetsport

You are in denial if you think that is possible. It is either a joint arena or no new arena at this point. There are not many cities left that have 4 separate stadiums/arenas. It just is not sustainable these days. The way Ilitch will get the funding for a new arena is if BOTH the Pistons and Wings are playing there.

Unfortunately you're probably right.

**Goose** · November-11-10, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by gdogslim

even the multi millionaires are hurting these days

i know what you mean, i have some cracks in the corintian leather seats on my G6 that in the past i would have immediatly replaced..... now i will wait til next year and just rub in some leather butter........

**CLAUDE G** · November-12-10, 01:14 AM

I think the whole issue is that Illitch has backed Karen Davidson into a corner with her huspands estate.

The team has got to be sold before December 31st 2010, or the estate tax is going to kick in...

The tentative tax is based on the tentative tax base, which is the sum of the taxable estate and the "adjusted taxable gifts" [[i.e., taxable gifts made after 1976). The federal estate tax is repealed for one year in 2010 and will return to 2001 rates and rules in 2011. For decedents dying after December 31, 2010, the tentative tax will be calculated by applying the following tax rates

For amounts over $3,000,000, the tentative tax is $1,290,800 plus 55% of the excess over $3,000,000.

So the way I understand this, if Karen Davidson sells the Pistons to Illitch for $400 million she doesn't pay the tax. After December 31st, then she pays 55% of $400 million.

So I think all Illitch is doing is stalling the sale so it gets to the point where there is not enough time to complete the sale to another bidder before December 31st.

Illitch's offer will probably be something like, here is $250 Million right now before December 31st. Go ahead and sell it to someone else for $400 million next year and you'll end up getting $180 million after taxes

**Hermod** · November-12-10, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by CLAUDE G

I think the whole issue is that Illitch has backed Karen Davidson into a corner with her huspands estate.

The team has got to be sold before December 31st 2010, or the estate tax is going to kick in...

So the way I understand this, if Karen Davidson sells the Pistons to Illitch for $400 million she doesn't pay the tax. After December 31st, then she pays 55% of $400 million.

So I think all Illitch is doing is stalling the sale so it gets to the point where there is not enough time to complete the sale to another bidder before December 31st.

Illitch's offer will probably be something like, here is $250 Million right now before December 31st. Go ahead and sell it to someone else for $400 million next year and you'll end up getting $180 million after taxes

No, the estate tax table your estate uses are for the year you died. If you die in 2010, there is no estate tax. What year did Davidson die?

**R8RBOB** · November-12-10, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

No, the estate tax table your estate uses are for the year you died. If you die in 2010, there is no estate tax. What year did Davidson die?

Davidson died in 2009. Karen Davidson has to pay for 2009 taxes. I believe you are given a period of time to pay the millions in taxes owed so Ms. Davidson maybe trying to pay that off, not to take an advantage of a loophole that does not apply to her.

bartock · November-12-10, 09:28 AM

Maybe not estate tax, but there is a small increase in capital gains tax that may have something to do with it. 3% on $400 million is a lot of money.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/2088.html

**daddeeo** · November-12-10, 09:44 AM

You know, all this tax stuff makes me laugh. I've heard that Mr. Davidson was always
late making payments with his businesses and it would be just deserts if his heirs got stuck with a nice tax bill.

**iheartthed** · November-12-10, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by daddeeo

You know, all this tax stuff makes me laugh. I've heard that Mr. Davidson was always
late making payments with his businesses and it would be just deserts if his heirs got stuck with a nice tax bill.

Probably a deliberate strategy to accrue as much interest from the cash as possible.

**bailey** · November-12-10, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by bartock

Maybe not estate tax, but there is a small increase in capital gains tax that may have something to do with it. 3% on $400 million is a lot of money.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/2088.html

That's not correct either. The property she received through inheritance received a "step up" in basis in 2009. Which means the basis is the value upon his death in 2009. She would only have to pay on the gain between then and when she sells. Heck, by the time this all wraps up, she will likely have a loss.

**R8RBOB** · November-12-10, 11:00 AM

Ok, let's have some fun with this. Ms. Davidson is dragging her feet because Brooks have revealed he has some compromising pics which he is ready to expose unless Mrs. D ask for a higher price that Ilitch isn't willing to pay. Meanwhile, Brooks is working behind the scenes to get the previous potential buyer back in the picture to buy the team and keep it in Brooksland and at the same time stick his middle finger in the eye of Detroit. The End.

Okay, maybe the story would better if it was played out on All My Children.

**Hermod** · November-12-10, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Davidson died in 2009. Karen Davidson has to pay for 2009 taxes. I believe you are given a period of time to pay the millions in taxes owed so Ms. Davidson maybe trying to pay that off, not to take an advantage of a loophole that does not apply to her.

As I recall from my mother's and my father's estates, you usually have ten months to pay the estate tax. In the event you have something that is difficult to sell, you can get an extension if the IRS agrees that what you have is not readily liquid.

2009 estate taxes were 45% as I recall.

**bailey** · November-12-10, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Hermod

As I recall from my mother's and my father's estates, you usually have ten months to pay the estate tax. In the event you have something that is difficult to sell, you can get an extension if the IRS agrees that what you have is not readily liquid.

2009 estate taxes were 45% as I recall.

she was HIS WIFE. there is an UNLIMITED exemption for spouses. he could have passed her 1 trillion in assets tax free and she could have sold them the next day and paid zero in tax.. [[it's one of the many things teh gheys are so upset about in not being allowed to marry.) I don't know where this"estate tax" meme got started, but it's not true.

**Hermod** · November-12-10, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

it's one of the many things teh gheys are so upset about in not being allowed to marry.)

They can be Mary.

**Johnlodge** · November-12-10, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Blarf

Lets hope Illitch doesn't get the Pistons. Every multi-use arena is shitty. The Wings need to have their own joint.

I hear your concern there, though I hear they've gotten better, and that a brand new multi-use arena might have decent ice. Also, Detroit's geography may help its ice quality regardless of the type of arena. But as someone who is absolutely apathetic towards basketball, but loves hockey, I do share your worries.

**mikefmich** · November-12-10, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

she was HIS WIFE. there is an UNLIMITED exemption for spouses. he could have passed her 1 trillion in assets tax free and she could have sold them the next day and paid zero in tax.. [[it's one of the many things teh gheys are so upset about in not being allowed to marry.) I don't know where this"estate tax" meme got started, but it's not true.

I'm not aware of the current situation regarding estate taxes, but I cannot believe Davidson would've left an estate his size without using every possibility and loophole to get around most if not all of it. That's why estate & trust lawyers make the bucks.

bartock · November-12-10, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

she was HIS WIFE. there is an UNLIMITED exemption for spouses. he could have passed her 1 trillion in assets tax free and she could have sold them the next day and paid zero in tax.. [[it's one of the many things teh gheys are so upset about in not being allowed to marry.) I don't know where this"estate tax" meme got started, but it's not true.

Well, what happens is, you get people like me, who really don't know what the hell I'm talking about with the tax stuff, mix in a healthy amount of speculation, and...

**bailey** · November-12-10, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by mikefmich

I'm not aware of the current situation regarding estate taxes, but I cannot believe Davidson would've left an estate his size without using every possibility and loophole to get around most if not all of it. That's why estate & trust lawyers make the bucks.

if he gives it to his wife[[ which seems to be what he did with the great bulk of his assets) it goes tax free. That is not a change. its one of the most powerful estate preservation tools on the books. So all the talk about estate tax scheming or a ticking clock on estate taxes owed is bunk.

Mrs. Davidson may want to sell before the end of the year because of the uncertainty of what is to come in 2011 for her own tax planning. But that is a horse of a different color.

**bailey** · November-12-10, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

Well, what happens is, you get people like me, who really don't know what the hell I'm talking about with the tax stuff, mix in a healthy amount of speculation, and...

Understandable.. also throw in the changes, both past and coming soon, to the estate tax law. Its funny, it seems like its the rumor/conspiracy theory that will not die.