Republicans Vow To Fight High Speed Rail; Use Money For Freeways

DetroitDad · November-10-10, 01:13 AM

How will this affect the Michigan High Speed Rail Network, if there is no Ohio connection? How about a connection into or past Chicago?

Governor-elect John Kasich has been quoted as saying, "Passenger rail is not in Ohio's future." Ohio was slated to get $400 million in federal funds for passenger trains between Cincinnati, Columbus and Cleveland. Kasich minced no words in talking about the project. "That train is dead," he said.

John Kasich, Ohio's governor elect has vowed to make killing the rail project for his state and the region his top priority. What's more, he wants the money to be redirected for other freeway infrastructure projects.

Kasich has made it known that he intends to kill the Ohio '3-C Rail Project', which aimed to connect Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati with a high speed rail line. With $400 million already allocated to Ohio for the project, Kasich wrote to President Barack Obama urging the federal government to invest the money elsewhere in the state's infrastructure. Obama denied the request, and the current governor will maintain spending on research and construction up until his term ends.

Meanwhile, Republican winners in two other states have also pushed to end high speed rail projects, and request the money be spent on roads, bridges, and freeways.

Further news and sources can be found by clicking here.

Stosh · November-10-10, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

How will this affect the Michigan High Speed Rail Network, if there is no Ohio connection? How about a connection into or past Chicago?

Meanwhile, Republican winners in two other states have also pushed to end high speed rail projects, and request the money be spent on roads, bridges, and freeways.

Further news and sources can be found by clicking here.

You get what you vote for. That will teach people to stay home. Weren't you espousing voting Republican once not long ago? I need to find the links.

**Magnatomicflux** · November-10-10, 01:24 AM

That's so damn frustrating. What is it people don't understand about the benifits of passenger rail?

**Russix** · November-10-10, 05:09 AM

Do you really think OH and WI are going to give NY 1.2B? These projects aren't dead, the horseshow from the election is still going on and when it's over these will be built.

**R8RBOB** · November-10-10, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

How will this affect the Michigan High Speed Rail Network, if there is no Ohio connection? How about a connection into or past Chicago?

Meanwhile, Republican winners in two other states have also pushed to end high speed rail projects, and request the money be spent on roads, bridges, and freeways.

Further news and sources can be found by clicking here.

Well, you get what you voted for. I suppose Kasich could say that freeway projects would create jobs but it was a certainty that the high-rail project was going to create jobs for this long-term project and poof it will be gone. The citizens of Ohio chose change so I wish them luck.

**iheartthed** · November-10-10, 09:01 AM

Well, if Wisconsin declines the feds offer for HSR, that might actually boost the prospects for a Detroit - Chicago route upgrade. Wisconsin was a big competitor for funds because the plan was to upgrade the link between Chicago, Madison and Minneapolis through Wisconsin, as well as the Chicago to Milwaukee link.

This along with New Jersey putting a kibosh on the Hudson River rail crossing, which would have been the biggest transit upgrade project in the country, means that the Feds should have more money to spread out among truly committed states.

Since transit investment and upgrade was central to Snyder's campaign platform, I doubt the Governerd is likely to follow suit. Hopefully he has the wherewithal to get the legislature behind him.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 09:07 AM

The money allocated under this program can only be used for high-speed rail. Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood made this very clear in a letter to John Kasich yesterday. The sad thing is, Kasich decried the rail line as a "waste of money" that "Ohio can't afford", yet he's ready to dump it into the interstate highway system. The rail line would cost $17 million a year to operate. ODOT will spend $3 billion next year.

New York has already requested the funds from Wisconsin and Ohio, should their Rednecks-elect choose to take their respective states back to the 18th century.

The funny thing is...many Ohioans I know wonder why all their kids are leaving for North Carolina....

**canuck** · November-10-10, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

The money allocated under this program can only be used for high-speed rail. Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood made this very clear in a letter to John Kasich yesterday. The sad thing is, Kasich decried the rail line as a "waste of money" that "Ohio can't afford", yet he's ready to dump it into the interstate highway system. The rail line would cost $17 million a year to operate. ODOT will spend $3 billion next year.

New York has already requested the funds from Wisconsin and Ohio, should their Rednecks-elect choose to take their respective states back to the 18th century.

The funny thing is...many Ohioans I know wonder why all their kids are leaving for North Carolina....

By Rednecks-elect, do you mean the Repugnant party GP?

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

By Rednecks-elect, do you mean the Repugnant party GP?

No, I mean Scott Walker and John Kasich.

bartock · November-10-10, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Russix

Do you really think OH and WI are going to give NY 1.2B? These projects aren't dead, the horseshow from the election is still going on and when it's over these will be built.

Exactly. This is faux-dogma of politicians looking to get re-elected the day after getting elected. It is a non-partisan agenda of whatever politician is in charge. "Repugnant-ans", "Demon-crats" and some of the more culturally/racially offensive nicknames aside.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 09:35 AM

Actually, I *do* think Ohio will give back the $400 million. John Kasich is really that stupid and regressive.

The only way the 3-C passenger rail line will get built is if the federal government rams it down Ohio's throat, as the 3-C line [[and Ohio Hub) is a critical link in the planned Midwestern High Speed Rail Network, and ties the East Coast to the Great Lakes region in the national rail service picture.

**canuck** · November-10-10, 09:37 AM

The funny thing is Ohio, like Pennsylvania are near perfect states to hold high-speed rail. They are similar to Europe in that they have a number of big metro areas and small distances between these makes HS rail commuting worthwhile. Of course some in the airlines lobby may not be as enthusiastic about this.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by canuck

The funny thing is Ohio, like Pennsylvania are near perfect states to hold high-speed rail. They are similar to Europe in that they have a number of big metro areas and small distances between these makes HS rail commuting worthwhile. Of course some in the airlines lobby may not be as enthusiastic about this.

Ohio has the same population density as France. Six million people reside within 10 miles of the proposed 3-C passenger rail line.

The airlines, I think, would be ecstatic about this. They've been losing their ass for years on short-hop flights like Detroit-to-Cleveland. I'm sure the airlines would rather focus on the money-making long-haul flights than getting people from every piss-ant little town into their hubs.

Speaking of which, Kasich's declaration is even more ballsy and ignorant when you consider that Cincinnati has lost its Delta hub since the merger with Northwest, and Cleveland stands to go the same route since the merger of Continental and United. So you'd have a state of over 11 million people with no hub airport, and no other choice than to get across the state by car. Good work!

**canuck** · November-10-10, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Ohio has the same population density as France. Six million people reside within 10 miles of the proposed 3-C passenger rail line.

Exactly! Midwestern states are well positioned for Fast rail in the scheme of things to come. Ohio is as you say densely populated and Spain and France use the proximity of cities to advantage. Spain scrapped a lot of redundant rail routes in order to capitalize on High Speed. It cost them a bundle and their economy is pretty bad. But in the long run the investment will have been worthwhile. There was a boom in real estate, on the periphery of big cities and of course the speculation and overspending fucked things up. They do however use rail as opposed to air links between say Madrid and Seville more than in the past. With customary access to intermodal links, folks can usually transfer easily to get to destinations in inner cities.

**canuck** · November-10-10, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Ohio has the same population density as France. Six million people reside within 10 miles of the proposed 3-C passenger rail line.

The airlines, I think, would be ecstatic about this. They've been losing their ass for years on short-hop flights like Detroit-to-Cleveland. I'm sure the airlines would rather focus on the money-making long-haul flights than getting people from every piss-ant little town into their hubs.

Speaking of which, Kasich's declaration is even more ballsy and ignorant when you consider that Cincinnati has lost its Delta hub since the merger with Northwest, and Cleveland stands to go the same route since the merger of Continental and United. So you'd have a state of over 11 million people with no hub airport, and no other choice than to get across the state by car. Good work!

Kasich and this other guy have teamed up to reinvent some beat-up old thing called Lack-o-Vision...

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 10:07 AM

See, the problem in Ohio is that Kasich made the High Speed Rail, or rather his opposition to it, one of the planks in his platform. Many Ohioans bought into the fallacies he promoted. Among them, Ohioans were told that this "high speed" rail line would travel 35 mph, and take 6 hours to travel from Cincinnati to Cleveland, that it would only come in the middle-of-the-night, how do you get around once you get off the train, yadda yadda.

Of course, this project was only ever intended as a "start-up" service. After all, you can't upgrade a rail line that you don't have. And as Spain found out, being overambitious in the high speed rail department is *expensive*. I still say that, for all its flaws, the 3C line that Kasich plans to kill is far superior than the existing rail service along the corridor.

At the same time, ODOT plans a $1.6 BILLION reconstruction of ONE interchange in Columbus--the I-70/71 split.

**esp1986** · November-10-10, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

Ohio has the same population density as France. Six million people reside within 10 miles of the proposed 3-C passenger rail line.

The airlines, I think, would be ecstatic about this. They've been losing their ass for years on short-hop flights like Detroit-to-Cleveland. I'm sure the airlines would rather focus on the money-making long-haul flights than getting people from every piss-ant little town into their hubs.

Speaking of which, Kasich's declaration is even more ballsy and ignorant when you consider that Cincinnati has lost its Delta hub since the merger with Northwest, and Cleveland stands to go the same route since the merger of Continental and United. So you'd have a state of over 11 million people with no hub airport, and no other choice than to get across the state by car. Good work!

That's the story of Ohio though. If you look at nearly every other state, there is one region or city that is, far and away, larger than the rest. Michigan has Detroit, Pennsylvania has Philadelphia, Illinois has Chicago, etc. Ohio has a few midsize regions and a few mid-large regions. There is no business hub, it is all spread out. Ohio is a very poorly structured state to do business in, moreso than Michigan in my mind, which I truly believe is why no region really takes off in Ohio. No businesses really invest heavily in Ohio, so each little region just keeps chugging along, simply reinvesting in itself. The taxes in every municipality are a major deterrent to business, and yet Ohio continues to live in oblivion.

I look at Ohio as Detroit on a much larger scale. There is no real central business hub, and everyone continues to believe they are on the right path, even when that path is headed down the mountain toward receivership. It is clear, that this region in general, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and Western Pennsylvania, need better transit. But it is the mindset and resistance to change that will continue to hinder the efforts. I am ecstatic with the changes we are seeing in Michigan however, with the high speed rail, along with the imminent commuter line, as well as light rail, which has Detroit as close as it has ever been to making light rail a reality. These are three potential game changers, and with Snyder voicing his support for strong transit, hopefully these projects don't fall through.

**Downtown Dave** · November-10-10, 11:12 AM

Newsweek's take on this:
"Somehow, it has become fashionable to think that high-speed trains connecting major cities will help “save the planet.” They won’t. They’re a perfect example of wasteful spending masquerading as a respectable social cause. They would further burden already-overburdened governments and drain dollars from worthier programs—schools, defense, research." More: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/w...ake-sense.html

**canuck** · November-10-10, 11:16 AM

What boggles the mind though, is that all these states were great proponents and developers of passenger and freight rail up until to 50 years, and that there are people to fight the upgrades we need in North America now. The cities of Ohio can benefit from their proximity and the proper links to serve them.

We have an additional problem with highway infrastructure in Quebec, reinvesting massive sums on interchanges that fall to bits from salt and ice damage. A 3 billion dollar demolition and reconstruction of the Turcot interchange near downtown Montreal is only going to choke up the city for another 5 or 6 years... The province is huge and with a population of under 8 million, the cost of maintaining roadway is astronomical, hence the cost of fuel which is heavily taxed- 1.10$ a liter or 4.15$ a US gallon today.

**canuck** · November-10-10, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Downtown Dave

Newsweek's take on this:
"Somehow, it has become fashionable to think that high-speed trains connecting major cities will help “save the planet.” They won’t. They’re a perfect example of wasteful spending masquerading as a respectable social cause. They would further burden already-overburdened governments and drain dollars from worthier programs—schools, defense, research." More: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/w...ake-sense.html

Yes, let's feel sorry for poor old underfunded defense agencies...

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Downtown Dave

Newsweek's take on this:
"Somehow, it has become fashionable to think that high-speed trains connecting major cities will help “save the planet.” They won’t. They’re a perfect example of wasteful spending masquerading as a respectable social cause. They would further burden already-overburdened governments and drain dollars from worthier programs—schools, defense, research." More: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/10/29/w...ake-sense.html

That's not Newsweek's take--that's right-wing Republican / Wall Street shill Bob Samuelson's take.

Better cancel the Interstate Highway System--we can't afford it.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by esp1986

That's the story of Ohio though. If you look at nearly every other state, there is one region or city that is, far and away, larger than the rest. Michigan has Detroit, Pennsylvania has Philadelphia, Illinois has Chicago, etc. Ohio has a few midsize regions and a few mid-large regions. There is no business hub, it is all spread out. Ohio is a very poorly structured state to do business in, moreso than Michigan in my mind, which I truly believe is why no region really takes off in Ohio. No businesses really invest heavily in Ohio, so each little region just keeps chugging along, simply reinvesting in itself. The taxes in every municipality are a major deterrent to business, and yet Ohio continues to live in oblivion.

I don't believe this for one second. Cleveland was once the fifth-largest city in the country [[and one of the wealthiest) and Ohio doesn't have 11+ million people by accident. I think what you mean to say is that Ohio isn't throwing billions of dollars in tax breaks at One Large Corporation in order to employ unskilled people at poverty wages. There are plenty of home-grown large businesses in Ohio, many of which would benefit tremendously from having modern passenger rail, as well as the benefits that the freight railroads would enjoy from the upgrade in infrastructure.

Ohio doesn't have ONE central business hub--it has FIVE, which is all the more reason the state needs to be linked in a more efficient and less expensive manner.

**canuck** · November-10-10, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

I don't believe this for one second. Cleveland was once the fifth-largest city in the country [[and one of the wealthiest) and Ohio doesn't have 11+ million people by accident. I think what you mean to say is that Ohio isn't throwing billions of dollars in tax breaks at One Large Corporation in order to employ unskilled people at poverty wages. There are plenty of home-grown large businesses in Ohio, many of which would benefit tremendously from having modern passenger rail, as well as the benefits that the freight railroads would enjoy from the upgrade in infrastructure.

Ohio doesn't have ONE central business hub--it has FIVE, which is all the more reason the state needs to be linked in a more efficient and less expensive manner.

Only thing is I dont know that the upgrades to freight rr are the same. Will the passenger rail be on new dedicated lines???

littlebuddy · November-10-10, 11:35 AM

While spending the money for high-speed rail, you still need to spend money to fix roads, bridges,etc. Is everything centrally located in each urban area that makes getting off the train right where you need to be, or are you going to have to rent a car or taxi to get around. In days gone by it seems every town had rail service, but most do not anymore. I think more than high-speed rail is needed but bring all the railroads back.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-10-10, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by littlebuddy

While spending the money for high-speed rail, you still need to spend money to fix roads, bridges,etc. Is everything centrally located in each urban area that makes getting off the train right where you need to be, or are you going to have to rent a car or taxi to get around. In days gone by it seems every town had rail service, but most do not anymore. I think more than high-speed rail is needed but bring all the railroads back.

When you travel by plane, are you able to walk from the airport to all of your destinations?