Why Troy Rules Over Detroit!

DetroitDad · November-02-10, 07:37 PM

This is from the Detroit News Politics Blog. I wonder what the numbers are in Detroit. Stick it to 'em Detroit! Let's prove them wrong!

"At 4:30PM, at least 650 of 1152 voters have voted in Troy, Pct. 20, roughly 56% of registered voters in the precinct. By now, I figure at least 700, if not more. Late drive-time voting should pump that number up by 8pm. I'm glad I live in a participatory district, considering rumors and twitters seem to be pointing at really low participation rates in Detroit."

From The Detroit News: http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/p...#ixzz14Aug4wyx

**313WX** · November-02-10, 07:59 PM

Hmm, lets do some funny math here...

Troy has roughly 20,000 voters while Detroit has roughly 400,000 voters.

56% in Troy is roughly 11,000 people. 10% in Detroit [[and I'll be surprised if it's not higher than that) is roughly 40,000 people. The point is either way the math is spun Detroit will always have a better absolute turnout than most of the suburbs.

lol, well so much for this non-topic. It's the typical SE Michigan bullshit of the suburbs trying to measure themselves up against a big city like Detroit.

DetroitDad · November-02-10, 08:15 PM

I agree that the suburbs have issues and problems, which is why I champion the city, and have started my family here. However, this topic is about Troy mainly being a participatory community, and more importantly, how Detroit is remaining passive. It seems like this puts Detroit at an unfair disadvantage, albeit one it has earned by not voting.

If you are a strong Detroit supporter, like I am, I fail to see how this wouldn't bother you.

Originally Posted by 313WX

Hmm, lets do some funny math here...

Troy has 1152 voters while Detroit has roughly 400,000 voter.

56% in Troy is roughly 650 people. 10% in Detroit [[and I'll be surprised if it's not higher than that) is roughly 40,000 people.

lol, well so much for this non-topic. It's the typical SE Michigan bullshit of the suburbs trying to measure themselves up with a big city like Detroit.

**313WX** · November-02-10, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

I agree that the suburbs have issues and problems, which is why I champion the city, and have started my family here. However, this topic is about Troy mainly being a participatory community, and more importantly, how Detroit is remaining passive. It seems like this puts Detroit at an unfair disadvantage, albeit one it has earned by not voting.

If you are a strong Detroit supporter, like I am, I fail to see how this wouldn't bother you.

Well the fact of the matter is a voting problem exists in all big cities across the city, the problem's just no unique to Detroit.

In any event my point was it's not fair to compare a wealthy suburb to a poor big city. There's simply different dynamics at work. Troy is a relatively "happy" community with JOBS and a wealthy working class population while Detroit is a city with as much of 50% unemployment and at least 1/3 of the city living below poverty. While I'm not trying to make excuses for these people who didn't vote or failed to vote in the city proper, I can also understand many of them simply have more pressing issues at hand than to vote in the same ineffective politicians.

**iheartthed** · November-02-10, 09:51 PM

Who other than Troy residents really cares what the voter turnout rate in Troy was?

**BrushStart** · November-02-10, 09:56 PM

Detroit almost always votes entirely democrat, so there's not much motivation for Detroiters to go out and vote when they can reasonably anticipate what the result will be. The only thing Detroit voters can impact are the ballot proposals and the governor. In this election, the ballot proposals were not hot-button issues that most people care about and virtually everyone expected Snyder to beat Bernero. So, in defense of Detroit's voter apathy in this election, it really didn't make a lot of sense for people to turn out in record numbers, unlike the election two years ago when Obama was running for president.

On-the-other-hand, I think Troy might be more balanced in terms of republicans and democrats. So, if you live in Troy, your vote has more of an impact on result of what candidates get elected in your district.

Bearinabox · November-03-10, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

The only thing Detroit voters can impact are the ballot proposals and the governor.

...and attorney general, secretary of state, and state supreme court. Those things are kind of really fucking important.

**BrushStart** · November-03-10, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

...and attorney general, secretary of state, and state supreme court. Those things are kind of really fucking important.

I agree that they're important, but most of the general public doesn't give a schlitz about the Attorney General, or Michigan's Sec. of State, and it is almost impossible to upset the election of an incumbent state Supreme Court judge.

What I'm trying to say, is that most people usually only care about their local representatives, and when you live in a district that is virtually guaranteed to vote straight party [[in Detroit's case democrat), you have less of an incentive to get to the poles because you already know what the result is going to be. As an example, the primaries seem to get far more attention in Detroit than the actual election. I saw a lot of Hansen Clark campaign material and supporters a few months ago during the primaries, but leading up the election, I didn't see much at all. That's because, if you're a dem running in Detroit, winning the primary is essentially like winning the election so long as you don't do something outrageous.

So, it makes a lot of sense for voter apathy to be higher in Detroit than in Troy. If you look at republican dominated districts, I'm sure you will find a similar situation. At the margin, people will rationalize the fact that the republican candidates will win their district so there's really no point in voting, especially if they also plan to vote republican.

**gnome** · November-03-10, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

I agree that they're important, but most of the general public doesn't give a schlitz about the Attorney General, or Michigan's Sec. of State, and it is almost impossible to upset the election of an incumbent state Supreme Court judge.

except alton davis became only the 3rd SC incumbent in Michigan history to be voted out.

Originally Posted by BrushStart

What I'm trying to say, is that most people usually only care about their local representatives, and when you live in a district that is virtually guaranteed to vote straight party [[in Detroit's case democrat), you have less of an incentive to get to the poles because you already know what the result is going to be. As an example, the primaries seem to get far more attention in Detroit than the actual election. I saw a lot of Hansen Clark campaign material and supporters a few months ago during the primaries, but leading up the election, I didn't see much at all. That's because, if you're a dem running in Detroit, winning the primary is essentially like winning the election so long as you don't do something outrageous.

So, it makes a lot of sense for voter apathy to be higher in Detroit than in Troy. If you look at republican dominated districts, I'm sure you will find a similar situation. At the margin, people will rationalize the fact that the republican candidates will win their district so there's really no point in voting, especially if they also plan to vote republican.

In Kent county the turnout was 48% in Ottawa county was 50%. Both figures down from 2006 and 2008 numbers, but still far ahead of Detroit's 15%.
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi...igan_lowe.html

There is not a pretty face that can be placed on Detroit's poor turnout. You can ascribe reasons, but the bottom line is that Detroit will be looked on as a toothless lion until such time it starts to show up.

**gnome** · November-03-10, 09:27 AM

Even in the historic election of 2008, Detroit brought in a little over 50% of voters.
http://www.freep.com/article/2008110...374/1118/PRINT

DetroitPole · November-03-10, 09:54 AM

Okay, so this is some kind of pissing contest? I'm down.

Troy now has NO LIBRARY as of July of next year. Got that, Mako? NO library. Add to that no community center, nature center, and historical museum. If you were to describe some community I was unaware of to me like that I would assume it is some unchanging hell - turns out, it is.

Guess what? I live in a city with many community centers, a nature center, a fantastic historical museum, and two dozen libraries. How are those subdivisions and Somerset treating you, Mako? Last I heard, the most glorious city in the galaxy, Troy, was in the red in the order of millions of dollars. And no, I didn't hear that from "rumors" or "twitter." Pick up a newspaper, asswipe.

You know what else, Mako? You couldn't pay me to live in Troy. I'd blow my brains out. I by no means ascribe these derisions to any other suburbs - Troy is truly a different breed. Many other suburbs are fantastic places to live. If he's going to base his assumptions on rumors and twitter, I've got some anecdotal evidence too: I've never seen a pedestrian in Troy. Honestly. You'd think it was a city of cars and no human beings. There are human beings there, according to the census, they just don't have souls.

Something else to note, Mako: That insane fundamentalist Republican whateverski, the perennial loser candidate for as long as I can remember, LOST, despite your anecdotal evidence.

My issue with this dickbag is the pot shot at Detroit. Why was that necessary? Why not just say turnout was high in magnificent Troy?

The low turnout in Detroit is truly despicable. There is no excuse from it. I attribute some of it to lack of transporation of 1/3 of the residents of the city and the fact that poor people work erratic, long hours, but that can only account for a small percentage of those who don't vote. I also understand that a large percentage of Detroit is made up of the perpetual underclass - those who have no meaningful place in American society and are at its very margins. Still, a part of the solution to that would be to vote.

However, if that pencil dick wants to start throwing stones, he should realize he lives in a glass house.

**French777** · November-03-10, 09:57 AM

Didn't Troy just Vote NO on the Library Tax? I guess that makes them better than Detroit....

**gnome** · November-03-10, 10:12 AM

who or what is Mako? Can you help me out here DPole?

--
I've been to Troy a few times and that was enough for me, but IIRC, the whole library thing was pretty confusing. There was an article the other day in the paper that said there were 4 different library proposals on the ballot. Don't know what the inside story is all about, but it sure sounds like the Trojans were riled up.

Bearinabox · November-03-10, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

most of the general public doesn't give a schlitz about the Attorney General, or Michigan's Sec. of State

That is a huge, huge problem that needs to be addressed. Even if people don't think the offices are important in their own right, look what happens to these people after they're finished with those offices: they run for governor [[Granholm, Cox), or have the legislature gerrymander them a congressional seat to skate into [[Candice Miller). If we'd paid enough attention to not elect that moron Cox to anything ever, we wouldn't have even had to deal with him this election cycle. The people we choose to fill our lower-level statewide elected offices are the people we'll have to choose from for higher-level offices in a few years, and for the most part those people are a bunch of idiots who nobody particularly likes.

**iheartthed** · November-03-10, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

who or what is Mako? Can you help me out here DPole?

Mako is the one whose post on the Detroit News political blog is linked to at the top of this thread.

But again I ask, who gives a shit about the voter turnout in Troy? Didn't we all just come to some consensus that part of Detroit's flaw is that it keeps measuring itself against irrelevant suburbs not known to anyone outside of southeast Michigan?

ferntruth · November-03-10, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

You couldn't pay me to live in Troy. I'd blow my brains out..

Promise?
The world would probably be a better place without your tirades.

DetroitPole · November-03-10, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by ferntruth

Promise?
The world would probably be a better place without your tirades.

Since you decided to encourage me to commit suicide[[though I don't recall ever having any exchange of words with you) I decided to google your handle to see what an upstanding citizen you are...

The world would probably be a better place without your proliferation of gay cartoon porn, but hey, maybe I'm just old fashioned.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ferntruth

Oh by the way, I'm pretty happy and don't plan on moving to Troy, so don't count on me offing myself anytime soon.

Don't get me wrong, you're entitled to enjoy whatever kind of cartoons you like, it's a free society, but just keep in mind anything you post on the internet is public. Personally, I like Family Guy.

**Detroitnerd** · November-03-10, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Since you decided to encourage me to commit suicide[[though I don't recall ever having any exchange of words with you) I decided to google your handle to see what an upstanding citizen you are...

The world would probably be a better place without your proliferation of gay cartoon porn, but hey, maybe I'm just old fashioned.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ferntruth

Oh, what? Hahaha. Jesus ...

bartock · November-03-10, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

except alton davis became only the 3rd SC incumbent in Michigan history to be voted out.

In Kent county the turnout was 48% in Ottawa county was 50%. Both figures down from 2006 and 2008 numbers, but still far ahead of Detroit's 15%.
http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi...igan_lowe.html

There is not a pretty face that can be placed on Detroit's poor turnout. You can ascribe reasons, but the bottom line is that Detroit will be looked on as a toothless lion until such time it starts to show up.

The one thing about Alton Davis is that he was really only "technically" an incumbent, since he was appointed, and recently, when the real incumbent stepped down.

DetroitPole - I don't always agree with your comments, but I'd be too scared to tell you anyway. I enjoy your posts, though.

**ridgeabilly** · November-03-10, 08:21 PM

Troy must be very proud that they closed their library but they still have a Hooters.

**professorscott** · November-03-10, 11:17 PM

OK.

I usually try not to be one of the folks in here pouring gasoline on fires, but in this case I can't help myself. I'm uniquely qualified to chime in here; I have lived in both Detroit and Troy.

Without going into all of the details, since others have done an admirable job of it, let me just say this: I like Detroit a whole lot more than I like Troy.

Now, I'm not picking on Troy, per se, at all. What I mean is this: name a suburb, and it's very likely that I like Detroit a whole lot more than I like that suburb. There are a couple of suburbs that are a bit harder for me to say that about, because we do have some really cool suburbs: Ferndale, Mount Clemens, Hamtramck [[but is that really technically a suburb?), Canada.

But here, in case you doubt my sincerity, try this. Say both of the following sentences with a straight face. Go ahead, try it.

Sentence 1: Hey, honey, let's get a hotel room and spend a weekend in Detroit!

Sentence 2: Hey, honey, let's get a hotel room and spend a weekend in Troy!

See what I mean?

**Left_For_Texas** · November-05-10, 12:30 PM

Neither one of those weekend getaways sound very appealing.

**BrushStart** · November-05-10, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Left_For_Texas

Neither one of those weekend getaways sound very appealing.

Well, not if you have the option of going someplace exotic, like the Bahamas, Nice, France, or Venice. But, if you want to visit a city, and say, go see a Broadway show, have dinner at a 5 star restuarant, sample some wines, and spend an evening playing poker in one Detroit's three casinos while the wife relaxes at the spa, then well, Detroit wins.

**Zacha341** · November-05-10, 01:12 PM

LOL! Let's spend a weekend in Windsor! International in 20 minutes! Weeeee!

Originally Posted by Left_For_Texas

Neither one of those weekend getaways sound very appealing.

**casscorridor** · November-05-10, 02:25 PM

If Detroit had rail transit and a few decent *urban* neighborhoods to connect, I think it could be a toursit destination. Lot's of history and a suprising number of world class attractions. By urban neighborhoods I do not mean Ferndale, in case you were wondering. LOL. I mean something metro Detroit doesn't even have... I am talking about density around 20,000+ per sq mile and lots of ammenities within walking distance and access to quality transit. This exists nowhere in Michigan, sorry to say. But it is very possible for Midtown to develop into such a neighborhood, as once upon a time it was such a place. The only area of the city that ever compared to the density of Brooklyn or similar cities. New Center, Downtown, Corktown, Rivertown and Eastern Market also all hold this sort of potential but that is the extent. Unfortunatly, Detroit and Metro Detroit are dominated by single-family houses and a suburban layout and low density.

As for Troy... what is there unique about it? No history, no unique or vibrant neighborhoods, nothing differentiating it from the hundreds of similar communities around the country. What, are people going to visit the panera bread? Or maybe the Applebees. What about Bed Bath & Beyond, now that is a world class attraction... While you are at it, make a stop at the library... Oh wait... shit. Nvm.