Stefani charged

**kraig** · October-29-10, 07:56 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/2010102...lawyer-charged

He'll probably end up getting the same punishment, if not worse, than Sam McCargo. After all, fair is fair.

**johnsmith** · October-29-10, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

http://www.freep.com/article/2010102...lawyer-charged

He'll probably end up getting the same punishment, if not worse, than Sam McCargo. After all, fair is fair.

That's too bad. He should be given a free pass just for this:

from the above cited article:

"put ex-Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick out of office and into prison.

EastSider · October-29-10, 10:12 AM

The ends don't justify the means.

**johnsmith** · October-29-10, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by EastSider

The ends don't justify the means.

In this case, it certainly does, as a much much greater menace to society was taken care of. Looks at all the heads that have rolled since this case. This case was the spark that Detroit needed that launched a wildfire to [[hopefully) end decades of corruption. I hope Stefani just gets a slap on the hand, as a snub to the kilpatrick machine.

**kraig** · October-29-10, 10:24 AM

Johnsmith and Eastsider. I agree with you. I was actually hoping that Sam McCargo wouldn't get hit as bad as he did for this reason alone. Had it not been for the guts that Stefani, Brown, Nelthrope and Harris had shown, Kwame would still be in office doing the same corrupt stuff. For as much as City Council and Kym Worthy talk stuff now, they knew the entire time what Kwame and crew were up to and had looked the other way. Had it not hit the papers neither they or the Feds would have done a thing.

EastSider · October-29-10, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

In this case, it certainly does, as a much much greater menace to society was taken care of.

The ends never justify the means.

Why are Stefani's "evasive, misleading and false statements" different than Kwame's, Beatty's or Ferguson's "evasive, misleading and false statements"?

**SWMAP** · October-29-10, 01:11 PM

Well, for one thing, Mike Stefani didn't make those statements in a court as Beatty and Kilpatrick did. Was he under oath when he spoke to the Detroit City Council? As to Bobby Ferguson - no one ever said that he made false or misleading statements - although believe he did have to sign documents when he submitted bids that indicated he knew of no collusion to undermine the fair and open bid process.

As to whether the end never justifies the means, there is quite a bit of ethical and philosophical discuussion on this topic over centuries. Its not all black and white, as you believe. The dropping of the Atomic Bomb over Hiroshima and making war in general are examples of means that might be justified by the hoped-for ends.

As to Stefani: it seems to me that he sacrificed his career and license to bring down the major looter and destructive agent of this City. God bless him. If Detroit survives, we owe it him because without him the looting would still be amazing.

**johnsmith** · October-29-10, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by EastSider

The ends never justify the means.

Why are Stefani's "evasive, misleading and false statements" different than Kwame's, Beatty's or Ferguson's "evasive, misleading and false statements"?

SWMAP's got it. Beatty & kwame were under oath, plus, they commited many crimes. Who did Stefani hurt? Who's the victim of Stefani? And don't say kwame and CB, they were certainly not victims. Sure it's unethical, but I don't fault him for it. Stefani should be given the key to the city.

**fanniemae** · October-29-10, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

SWMAP's got it. Beatty & kwame were under oath, plus, they commited many crimes. Who did Stefani hurt? Who's the victim of Stefani? And don't say kwame and CB, they were certainly not victims. Sure it's unethical, but I don't fault him for it. Stefani should be given the key to the city.

Stefani should be Santa Claus in the Thanksgiving Parade.

EastSider · October-29-10, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

SWMAP's got it. Beatty & kwame were under oath, plus, they commited many crimes. Who did Stefani hurt? Who's the victim of Stefani? And don't say kwame and CB, they were certainly not victims. Sure it's unethical, but I don't fault him for it. Stefani should be given the key to the city.

Unethical behavior is never justifiable. Otherwise we wouldn't call it "unethical," would we?

**Islandman** · October-29-10, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by EastSider

Unethical behavior is never justifiable. Otherwise we wouldn't call it "unethical," would we?

Granted, but which individual's unethical behavior was doing the greater harm? Case closed.

**Lowell** · October-29-10, 04:50 PM

And Daniel Ellsberg's [grew up in Detroit, Michigan, and attended Cranbrook School BTW] release of the Pentagon Papers exposing the lies surrounding the Vietnam war was wrong too.

Sometime a few eggs need to be broken to make an omelet.

Thank you Mr. Ellsberg.

**Thames** · October-29-10, 06:59 PM

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire.

**kraig** · October-29-10, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Well, for one thing, Mike Stefani didn't make those statements in a court as Beatty and Kilpatrick did. Was he under oath when he spoke to the Detroit City Council? As to Bobby Ferguson - no one ever said that he made false or misleading statements - although believe he did have to sign documents when he submitted bids that indicated he knew of no collusion to undermine the fair and open bid process.

As to whether the end never justifies the means, there is quite a bit of ethical and philosophical discuussion on this topic over centuries. Its not all black and white, as you believe. The dropping of the Atomic Bomb over Hiroshima and making war in general are examples of means that might be justified by the hoped-for ends.

As to Stefani: it seems to me that he sacrificed his career and license to bring down the major looter and destructive agent of this City. God bless him. If Detroit survives, we owe it him because without him the looting would still be amazing.

Stefani was under oath when he testified to City Council. The problem facing Stefani is that he didn't turn the text messages over to the court as he was supposed to. Instead, he used them as leverage to enrich himself. Remember, it's not what you know, but, what you can prove. We all know that he gave them to the Free Press, but, it has been proven that he made a secret deal behind the court's back with Kwame. That's what has him in trouble.

**Lowell** · October-29-10, 09:18 PM

"Instead, he used them as leverage to enrich himself. Remember, it's not what you know, but, what you can prove."

You make a very good point Kraig. I withdraw my plaudits but the big judgment did come after the defense turned down a very low settlement. Who knows if it was money, idealism, just being PO'd at their intransigence or all three that sent Stephani over the line. [Remember, it's not what you know, but, what you can prove.

] It happened, a can of worms got opened and Detroit is better for it. Instead of millions being stolen, millions will be recovered and Detroit's public image improved.