Southfield Vs Troy

**D_Town** · October-24-10, 07:53 AM

I was wondering what city do you think has a brighter economic future? They both are similar in suburban sprawl and economics.

bartock · October-24-10, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by D_Town

I was wondering what city do you think has a brighter economic future? They both are similar in suburban sprawl and economics.

I'll go for the one in the middle...Birmingham.

Seriously, I don't think the two can be divorced...demographically different, but their fates are equally dependant because of, as you say, their similarities in suburban sprawl and economics.

**DetroitPlanner** · October-24-10, 10:00 AM

I don't know of any dead malls in Troy though Southfield has a couple [[Tel-Twelve and Northland)

**MCP-001** · October-24-10, 10:12 AM

I haven't heard about this too much in Southfield, but Troy is in a world of hurt money-wise.

They had a millage shot down earlier this year, they are trying again with another library millage in a week.

And they are siccing their cops on people who they feel are "driving distracted"?

So, for the short-term anyway, my nod goes to Southfield.

Paddington · October-24-10, 10:36 AM

Outside of a few shiny towers along M-39, and I-696, Southfield isn't very prosperous. Troy, OTOH, has a lot of money even if it has unoccupied commercial real estate. It also has vastly superior schools compared to Southfield. Let's be realistic, people considering Troy as a place to live aren't even cross shopping Southfield. Southfield is pretty much for folks fleeing Detroit.

**gazhekwe** · October-24-10, 12:03 PM

Home buyers are driven by trends a lot of times. Southfield was trendy at one time, as was Troy. Both have been left in the fashion lurch as buyers head for Wixom, Novi, Clinton Twp and other places more in the spotlight and with up to the minute new housing stock.

As a place to live, Southfield is great. It has a range of housing from basic to luxury, affordably priced, though not trendy, wonderful services, and once you live here, its layout makes sense with some neighborhood centers and the big civic center as targets for community traffic. It has a nice mix of town, suburban and rural neighborhoods. Troy has a very diverse mix of housing, dominated by a LOT of 70s-90s enclave developments that used to be trendy targets. I suppose Troy's neighborhood shopping areas on the main street corners are more mainstream than Southfield's, except for Northwestern Highway.

I was surprised to find that Southfield and Troy are very close in size and footprint. For some reason I thought Troy was a lot bigger.

It's hard to figure out what the deal is with the schools. Southfield and S-L have diverse populations and there are excellent programs at both schools, with some real top notch students. I suppose as school reputations slide, those who can afford to go elsewhere do, resulting in low achievers forming a growing majority. That is a prickly subject, as it has its nascence in covert racism.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · October-24-10, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Paddington

Outside of a few shiny towers along M-39, and I-696, Southfield isn't very prosperous. Troy, OTOH, has a lot of money even if it has unoccupied commercial real estate. It also has vastly superior schools compared to Southfield. Let's be realistic, people considering Troy as a place to live aren't even cross shopping Southfield. Southfield is pretty much for folks fleeing Detroit.

So what are you trying to say?? There's no blacks moving to Troy? That Southfield is in decline and Troy isn't? The only reason people aren't considering Southfield, is the property taxes are the highest in Oakland County. That would scare away some folks. Other than that, I don't think Troy is a inherantly better place to live. Talk in laymens terms please.

**D_Town** · October-24-10, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Home buyers are driven by trends a lot of times. Southfield was trendy at one time, as was Troy. Both have been left in the fashion lurch as buyers head for Wixom, Novi, Clinton Twp and other places more in the spotlight and with up to the minute new housing stock.

As a place to live, Southfield is great. It has a range of housing from basic to luxury, affordably priced, though not trendy, wonderful services, and once you live here, its layout makes sense with some neighborhood centers and the big civic center as targets for community traffic. It has a nice mix of town, suburban and rural neighborhoods. Troy has a very diverse mix of housing, dominated by a LOT of 70s-90s enclave developments that used to be trendy targets. I suppose Troy's neighborhood shopping areas on the main street corners are more mainstream than Southfield's, except for Northwestern Highway.

I was surprised to find that Southfield and Troy are very close in size and footprint. For some reason I thought Troy was a lot bigger.

It's hard to figure out what the deal is with the schools. Southfield and S-L have diverse populations and there are excellent programs at both schools, with some real top notch students. I suppose as school reputations slide, those who can afford to go elsewhere do, resulting in low achievers forming a growing majority. That is a prickly subject, as it has its nascence in covert racism.

I was thinking is Southfield now a possible image of whats to come to Troy in the next 10-20 yrs? Southfield and Troy has similar expansion thanks to both of their malls [[arguably), both have national recognized school systems, etc.

**cmubryan** · October-24-10, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Home buyers are driven by trends a lot of times. Southfield was trendy at one time, as was Troy. Both have been left in the fashion lurch as buyers head for Wixom, Novi, Clinton Twp and other places more in the spotlight and with up to the minute new housing stock.

As a place to live, Southfield is great. It has a range of housing from basic to luxury, affordably priced, though not trendy, wonderful services, and once you live here, its layout makes sense with some neighborhood centers and the big civic center as targets for community traffic. It has a nice mix of town, suburban and rural neighborhoods. Troy has a very diverse mix of housing, dominated by a LOT of 70s-90s enclave developments that used to be trendy targets. I suppose Troy's neighborhood shopping areas on the main street corners are more mainstream than Southfield's, except for Northwestern Highway.

I was surprised to find that Southfield and Troy are very close in size and footprint. For some reason I thought Troy was a lot bigger.

It's hard to figure out what the deal is with the schools. Southfield and S-L have diverse populations and there are excellent programs at both schools, with some real top notch students. I suppose as school reputations slide, those who can afford to go elsewhere do, resulting in low achievers forming a growing majority. That is a prickly subject, as it has its nascence in covert racism.

The Southfield school district is probably one of the least diverse, racially in southern Oakland County. Last time I checked it was over 92% of one race. Less diverse than Detroit Public Schools

**softailrider** · October-24-10, 06:29 PM

Put a foreclosed house in Southfield and consider a similar one in Troy. Pretend both are in neighborhoods and not on busy streets. The one in Troy is going to sell way faster and for more money.

**gazhekwe** · October-24-10, 06:34 PM

There is more than one kind of diversity.

And, yes indeed, there are amazing beautiful housing bargains to be had in Southfield.

**Downtown Lady** · October-24-10, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I don't know of any dead malls in Troy though Southfield has a couple [[Tel-Twelve and Northland)

This statement is completely inaccurate and misleading.

While Tel-Twelve in its incarnation as a mall is no longer there, it has been replaced by a thriving Tel-Twelve shopping center. Stores there include Best Buy, Michaels, Pier One, DSW Shoe Warehouse, Cosi, Pet Smart, Baja Fresh, Office Depot, Radioshack, Footlocker, Quiznos, Meijer, Fatburger and Lowe's. It is anything but dead.

Furthermore, I count more than 120 stores at Northland. True enough, many are small, local stores, but for local entrepreneurs is that a bad thing? And Northland does still include many well-known national stores, including Target, Radioshack, Payless, Subway, Footaction, T-Mobile, Pearle Vision, Bakers shoes, GNC, Champs Sports, Footlocker, Mrs. Fields, Macy's, Stride Rite shoes, and A&W. Again, anything but dead.

Misinformation, whether intentional or through lazy thinking, does not benefit the discussion.

**Downtown Lady** · October-24-10, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Put a foreclosed house in Southfield and consider a similar one in Troy. Pretend both are in neighborhoods and not on busy streets. The one in Troy is going to sell way faster and for more money.

Is there a link to these statistics, or was this just your guess? If the houses are similar, but the one in Troy would sell for more money, it would seem that Southfield would be the place to be for great deals on good housing, no? I'd like the statistics, though, to back up the statement that the expensive ones are going to sell "way faster". Unless you have first-hand experience trying to buy in both Troy and Southfield and the Troy homes were always snapped up before you could put in an offer? Because otherwise that thinking just sounds counter-intuitive.

I agree with Gazhekwe's reference to covert racism, not just as it relates to Southfield schools, but to the city as a whole. Anyone who overlooks Southfield as a place to live, for such reasons, has no idea what a beautiful city they are missing.

bartock · October-24-10, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by D_Town

I was thinking is Southfield now a possible image of whats to come to Troy in the next 10-20 yrs? Southfield and Troy has similar expansion thanks to both of their malls [[arguably), both have national recognized school systems, etc.

Yes! And perhaps I'm wrong [[not trying to be an age-ist, but this is my guess), wasn't Northland, in a certain sense, the "Somerset" of it's time? Understanding that Somerset was not THE first, but sort a first, in upscale malls, whereas Northland was literally the first of its kind.

bartock · October-24-10, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Downtown Lady

Is there a link to these statistics, or was this just your guess? If the houses are similar, but the one in Troy would sell for more money, it would seem that Southfield would be the place to be for great deals on good housing, no? I'd like the statistics, though, to back up the statement that the expensive ones are going to sell "way faster". Unless you have first-hand experience trying to buy in both Troy and Southfield and the Troy homes were always snapped up before you could put in an offer? Because otherwise that thinking just sounds counter-intuitive.

I agree with Gazhekwe's reference to covert racism, not just as it relates to Southfield schools, but to the city as a whole. Anyone who overlooks Southfield as a place to live, for such reasons, has no idea what a beautiful city they are missing.

Southfield is, in my opinion, the reason why the vote-baiting and self-preservation b.s. we get from certain people and leaders in Detroit and certain people and leaders in the suburbs, fails.

**gazhekwe** · October-24-10, 08:45 PM

????????????

**softailrider** · October-24-10, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

The Southfield school district is probably one of the least diverse, racially in southern Oakland County. Last time I checked it was over 92% of one race. Less diverse than Detroit Public Schools

My wife taught at Southfield Lathrup for over 20 years, she took an early retirement about 8 years ago. When she taught there, the graduation rate was over 90% . The vast majority of those graduates went on to some form of higher education. The adminstration of that High School were absolute Nazi's about attendance. If you missed a class, they called home, every time.

**softailrider** · October-24-10, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by Downtown Lady

Is there a link to these statistics, or was this just your guess? If the houses are similar, but the one in Troy would sell for more money, it would seem that Southfield would be the place to be for great deals on good housing, no? I'd like the statistics, though, to back up the statement that the expensive ones are going to sell "way faster". Unless you have first-hand experience trying to buy in both Troy and Southfield and the Troy homes were always snapped up before you could put in an offer? Because otherwise that thinking just sounds counter-intuitive.

I agree with Gazhekwe's reference to covert racism, not just as it relates to Southfield schools, but to the city as a whole. Anyone who overlooks Southfield as a place to live, for such reasons, has no idea what a beautiful city they are missing.

Get serious, drive through both cities. In every Southfield neighborhood I've been in foreclosed houses are very visable and they just sit. Even in the nicest areas they don't move nearly as fast as they do in Troy. When they do sell it is for way less per square foot. I'm not saying that Southfield housing is as devalued as Detroit, but, values are way higher in Troy. Talk to any realtor, ask him / her where they would rather have a listing.

**Downtown Lady** · October-24-10, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

In every Southfield neighborhood I've been in foreclosed houses are very visable and they just sit.

It has not been my experience that foreclosed homes in Southfield just sit.

Originally Posted by softailrider

When they do sell it is for way less per square foot. I'm not saying that Southfield housing is as devalued as Detroit, but, values are way higher in Troy.

Nothing that I said is disagreeing with you on that. We are saying the same thing. So your statement supports my suggestion that great deals on good houses would be in Southfield. Maybe you are seeing the low prices as a negative from a seller's or realtor's perspective, but obviously it is a positive from a homebuyer's perspective.

**gazhekwe** · October-24-10, 09:48 PM

It has not been my experience that foreclosed homes in Southfield just sit.

Mine either. We have a pretty quick turnaround, and some ravishing deals for the buyers.

**Hermod** · October-25-10, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I was surprised to find that Southfield and Troy are very close in size and footprint. For some reason I thought Troy was a lot bigger.

Michigan was platted in "townships" which are six mile by six mile squares.

Southfield and Troy were both townships in Oakland County.

Both townships incorporated as cities minus any city property previously taken out of the township by annexation from other cities or by city incorporation of villages within the township.

That is why the two cities are similar in size and shape.

Warren and Sterling Heights in macomb County have similar size and shapes.

**mwilbert** · October-25-10, 08:13 AM

I think Southfield's future is fairly dismal. The emptying out of the region leaves it an unneeded area with essentially no redeeming characteristics, with mostly unattractive housing and lacking both urban and suburban amenities. Troy's future is more uncertain. It still plays a significant role in the regional economy. In my opinion it is already in decline and that decline will probably continue, but whether it ends up as one of the losers in the game of municipal musical chairs depends upon how much the region's population shrinks, how much additional sprawl there is, and how appealing Troy's housing stock is to people as time passes.

bartock · October-25-10, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

????????????

uh, OK.

http://www.cityofsouthfield.com/News...e/Default.aspx

**gazhekwe** · October-25-10, 08:34 AM

mwilbert, I have to disagree with your assessment that Southfield's housing is mostly unattractive. You pick your neighborhood and there are beautiful places to live. Farmstyle? We got it! 60s-70s suburban tract ranging from low to high scale, got those! Architect designed homes in upscale neighborhoods! We got 'em! Late 90s-00s bigfoot neighborhoods, we have 'em. Historic auto exec houses on big estate size lots, yep, got those. Nice newer rowhouses close to shopping and food courts? Got them, too. You want nice big lots with your house? We have them. We have wonderful upscale ravine properties you would pay megabux for anywhere else. You like neighborhoods where the houses are similar and there are sidewalks for the kids to play on? We have those, too. Our housing is both diverse [[I said there is more than one kind of diversity) and affordable. Come on and see.

PS. Thanks Bartock, now I get it.

**Hermod** · October-25-10, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by mwilbert

I think Southfield's future is fairly dismal. The emptying out of the region leaves it an unneeded area with essentially no redeeming characteristics, with mostly unattractive housing and lacking both urban and suburban amenities. Troy's future is more uncertain. It still plays a significant role in the regional economy. In my opinion it is already in decline and that decline will probably continue, but whether it ends up as one of the losers in the game of municipal musical chairs depends upon how much the region's population shrinks, how much additional sprawl there is, and how appealing Troy's housing stock is to people as time passes.

I think that the future of Troy [[and much of southeastern Oakland County) is dependent on the OEM auto supply business coming back If the region as a whole comes back economically, Troy and its neighbors will continue to be a desirable place to shop and live.