Detroit vs Grosse Pointe.

**citysurfer80** · October-21-10, 06:08 PM

Why did Grosse Pointe survive the decay of the Detroit industry?
The border made by Alter Road just looks surreal.
I have never seen something like that...
It´s just a a stone's throw between hell and heaven.

**unclefrank** · October-21-10, 06:11 PM

How the Grosse Pointes have survived being in Wayne County is a mystery to me too.

**Ray1936** · October-21-10, 06:12 PM

Grosse Pointe Shores is partially in Macomb county.

**dtowncitylover** · October-21-10, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Grosse Pointe Shores is partially in Macomb county.

like an acre...

gdogslim · October-21-10, 07:48 PM

I thought this was a thread about a football game or something.
Is this a serious question?

**gnome** · October-21-10, 08:07 PM

welcome to the forum citysurfer, I think you need to explain your question a bit. i find it a tad odd that someone living in the area would even wonder about such a thing. It is like asking why people don't fall off the earth when they go to australia.

the answer has nothing to do with kangaroo pouches.

**windsor_shane** · October-21-10, 08:08 PM

they probably survived because of the walls they built to keep those nogood doer detroit folks out

**windsor_shane** · October-21-10, 08:33 PM

i wonder what people would say if we installed these things over the walls that divide detroit and gpp

this bridge crosses a fence installed entirely around a park in santa monica..

**Gistok** · October-21-10, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by MrSam

THIS THREAD SUCKS ASS & was made by an ATTENTION WHORE!

Why not warren vs bloomfield,
roseville vs troy
farmington vs northville. macomb twp vs oakland twp?

Well it's obvious that he knows his Geography better than you do squirt...
None of the areas you mentioned are contiguous...

Welcome to the forum city citysurfer80! And ignore the troll...

There's several reasons for your observations...

1) besides the first 2 streets [[Wayburn and Maryland), all the Grosse Pointe Park housing stock has always been more on the luxury end than neighboring Detroit.
2) the people who live in the Pointes have 4 minute 911 response time.
3) they have excellent waterfront parks, city services, schools, libraries and shopping.
4) they take pride in their neighborhoods.

**Mackinaw** · October-22-10, 12:31 AM

I take umbrage at the thread title, because rarely if ever are the best interests of Detroit and GP different. GP thrives off of Detroit. It is one of the only suburbs that does, and as such it should be a model for a region that increasingly needs to look inward and not outward.

Why is it successful? Well, aside from being well-planned and well-appointed with top quality housing as Gistok mentioned, it has a prime location. It is about as close as you can be to downtown and other center city amenities without being in the City proper and thus burdened with minimal returns on your taxes. Rather, they get a TON for their money and have an excellent proximity to the city. It is a model city in some ways with its fine schools and increasing levels of diversity-- socioeconomic if nothing else. Not perfect, but hard to improve upon in this state.

**bragaboutme** · October-22-10, 01:33 AM

The correct title to this thread should be. Alter road vs. Mack ave. Going north on mack from alter, after a couple of blocks both sides look the same going all the way to moross, but alter road looks different going towards the river. Why is that?

**Gannon** · October-22-10, 04:47 AM

I've been over here since June and cannot explain it.

Merely one block from the devastation of Detroit, and kids are playing in their front yards as if it were Maybury...or Stepford. It is QUIET here. Eerily quiet.

There is the strangest sense of security and safety the moment you cross the city boundary.

The cops keep an eye out, but are not heavy-handed.

Heck, one night during the summertime, one unmarked car pulled over a Vespa-driving lad around two in the morning directly in front of my friend's home...if I hadn't been awake I would have never known it.

The Vespa was left on the street, with the helmet hung on the handlebars, until later that next afternoon. Untouched. It wasn't impounded...which it clearly could've been.

They do keep a close eye on Mack Avenue, and I've heard of people getting pulled over for only driving five over...and the cops ARE very sneaky during morning rush hours, hiding with two wheels parked up on the sidewalk on the Detroit side to be just out of sight. [[they should be spanked for THAT one!)

But even the national chains, including CVS and the hardware store, have SUCH greater service compared to their sister stores throughout the city...it is simply mind-boggling to ponder the depth of causality. People are just civil here...and the ones I've met are REALLY into the city. Just not into it enough to throw their money into the leaky sieve of the politics of the town, beyond their significant 1.5% income taxation without representation for continuing to keep their offices downtown.

The race down Jefferson in the morning, along with the parallel circuits down Kercheval and Charlevoix, are pretty damn funny to watch and participate in, too. If these folks had the 'power' that some of my conspiracy friends attribute to them, the lights on Jefferson would be timed properly. Ahem.

Cheers and a bit more...here's a tip of my morning tea to GP [[and its fractional derivatives) and whatever weirdness is hidden just beyond plain sight. There is more to this place than merely white people on parade...which is the only thing I could think of while scanning this past Sunday's complimentary issue of the Grosse Pointe Times. I cannot remember any person of color in any of the photographs. Twisted to the extreme.

**Gannon** · October-22-10, 04:55 AM

And I'll argue the housing stock issue...there are a few streets where amazing architecture extends WELL into the city...like Yorkshire street. Heck, past Warren Avenue that street has simply amazing structures.

In disarray and various stages of demise. My cousin and I drove through a bunch of streets earlier yesterday and were in awe of the devastation of such beauty. He got quite upset by it.

There is so much more to it than meets the eye...

Ravine · October-22-10, 06:41 AM

Jeez. First time away from the unwashed rabble?

**gnome** · October-22-10, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by citysurfer80

Why did Grosse Pointe survive the decay of the Detroit industry?

And Mr.SAM sez:

Why cadillacs don't drive like chevys? Cadillacs owners must take better pride. Look how foolish it sounds to even ask that question. I swear this board should check IQ for entry.

Now for 2011 Pinky you really need to get your intellectual weight up if you think you can ever go against me.

Citysurfer, I think you can thank Mr.SAM for giving you the answer.

DetroitPole · October-22-10, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Well it's obvious that he knows his Geography better than you do squirt...
None of the areas you mentioned are contiguous...

Welcome to the forum city citysurfer80! And ignore the troll...

There's several reasons for your observations...

1) besides the first 2 streets [[Wayburn and Maryland), all the Grosse Pointe Park housing stock has always been more on the luxury end than neighboring Detroit.
2) the people who live in the Pointes have 4 minute 911 response time.
3) they have excellent waterfront parks, city services, schools, libraries and shopping.
4) they take pride in their neighborhoods.

Those things are all true today, no doubt, but can we look at historical reasons for some deeper understanding. A world existed prior to five years ago and we are products of it. Housing stock is one you hit the nail on the head with. The rest we need to ask - why is this the case? Good schools, parks and a median income of $100,000+ does not just "happen."

The wealthy whites of the city who formerly lived in areas like Boston-Edison even prior to the 1950's were migrating out [[in BE to be replaced largely by wealthy blacks) and Grosse Pointe was a prime location. This was provided, of course, you were white and Protestant. See the point system:

http://hnn.us/articles/1547.html

This may seem like ancient history in our modern free society, but there was a case of this less than a decade ago.

Jews, blacks, and Asians, were entirely excluded from Grosse Pointe. Poles, other Slavs, and Italians were at the lower rungs. You lost points for things like being Catholic and if you lost enough, would be redirected to someplace your swarthy ass belongs.

The Grosse Pointes, all of them, are relatively small in both geography and population. For a long time, there wasn't really room for newcomers - and if you were old money, you lived where old money did - in Grosse Pointe. Not a lot of for sale signs for some trash to move in. You needed a shit ton of money too.

Simply by virture of geography it is a nice place to live - close to the water[[upstream, not like polluted downriver), no freeways running through it [[no accident - freeways literally cut through poor neighborhoods) and far from industry or pollution, while close to downtown, where many of these rich WASPs worked/work.

Private academies, yacht clubs, and other social associations undoubtedly made sure anyone who was unwelcome was socially excluded and isolated.

This was a very exclusive, tight-knit community. It intentionally isolated itself from the problems Detroit was facing.

Look at a map with Detroit and Grosse Pointe. Almost none of the streets line up. Many are dead ends on the Grosse Pointe side because of berms constructed. Some, like in the case of Grayton, were constructed very recently [[decade or so).

Of course today anybody can move to Grosse Pointe pretty freely if they've got the cash, but to this day it remains a very affluent, over 90% white enclave with many of the old institutions in place.

**GPCharles** · October-22-10, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Private academies, yacht clubs, and other social associations undoubtedly made sure anyone who was unwelcome was socially excluded and isolated.

Have lived in GP since the late 1950s. The above description has always applied to a very small minority of GP residents. It basically is a community made up of professional people.

**Goose** · October-22-10, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

There is more to this place than merely white people on parade...which is the only thing I could think of while scanning this past Sunday's complimentary issue of the Grosse Pointe Times. I cannot remember any person of color in any of the photographs. Twisted to the extreme.

that's bs, as I recall persons of color are over-represented in the newspapers pictures, so as to not offend and stay in line with the liberal PC.....

twisted to the extreme? white people on parade?? take a drive by mack and vernier when school is getting out... white people on parade?? the diversity in the schools on a white to black ratio is probably greater than the "diversity" in the detroit schools on a black to white ratio....

DetroitPole · October-22-10, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Goose

that's bs, as I recall persons of color are over-represented in the newspapers pictures, so as to not offend and stay in line with the liberal PC.....

twisted to the extreme? white people on parade?? take a drive by mack and vernier when school is getting out... white people on parade?? the diversity in the schools on a white to black ratio is probably greater than the "diversity" in the detroit schools on a black to white ratio....

Correct. However, rather than say probably, you should back it up.

http://www.greatschools.org/cgi-bin/...e/569#students

http://www.greatschools.org/cgi-bin/...e/346#students

5% difference. Not terribly significant.

What is most striking is that you have a 80%~ black school district in a 80%~ poor black city a stone-throw away from a 80%~ white district in a 90%+ rich white city. That is some serious 21st century segregation. Something to think about, or, in the case of many people on this board, something to not think about but instead just saying, "well they don't work hard so they r poor!!!1"

**bailey** · October-22-10, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

Correct. However, rather than say probably, you should back it up.

http://www.greatschools.org/cgi-bin/...e/569#students

http://www.greatschools.org/cgi-bin/...e/346#students

5% difference. Not terribly significant.

What is most striking is that you have a 80%~ black school district in a 80%~ poor black city a stone-throw away from a 80%~ white district in a 90%+ rich white city. That is some serious 21st century segregation. Something to think about, or, in the case of many people on this board, something to not think about but instead just saying, "well they don't work hard so they r poor!!!1"

Ok, since you seem so concerned about this "injustice", what is your solution? seize GP and relocate everyone to balance them out?

**johnsmith** · October-22-10, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Ok, since you seem so concerned about this "injustice", what is your solution? seize GP and relocate everyone to balance them out?

The scary thing is, that a lot of posters here would answer "yes."

Bearinabox · October-22-10, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by johnsmith

The scary thing is, that a lot of posters here would answer "yes."

Keep punching those strawmen, dude...

**jt1** · October-22-10, 10:24 AM

Regardless of how you feel about GP [[and I think GPers are much more interested in the city improving than most of the region), without GP residents many of the cultural places in the city would not exist or would have went under years ago.

Another thing that jumps out to me is that people in GP support cultural activities remaining in the city as opposed to many people in the region that would prefer they just be moved elsewhere.

LodgeDodger · October-22-10, 11:03 AM

The answer is quite simple: The folks in the Pointes were/are involved in their communities. If someone in the Pointes were to pull some of the shit that happens in the city, it would have been stopped.

As far as jt1's comment about cultural places in the city and their existence, I think Detroit owes a "Thank you!" to those folks from the 'burbs. As much as a certain contingency of folks in the city like to complain about outsiders, many of those outsiders want to see the city succeed and flourish. I'm one of those outsiders.

**Hermod** · October-22-10, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

What is most striking is that you have a 80%~ black school district in a 80%~ poor black city a stone-throw away from a 80%~ white district in a 90%+ rich white city. That is some serious 21st century segregation. Something to think about, or, in the case of many people on this board, something to not think about but instead just saying, "well they don't work hard so they r poor!!!1"

Those school district lines and city limits lines were drawn long before Detroit became a 80%~ poor black city. They were not drawn with any racial intent.