I R A Q ...... yes, still

**Papasito** · October-17-10, 09:40 AM

Finally after the "Big pull out" , the inevitable is happening....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39704635...new_york_times

Key U.S. allies in Iraq said to be rejoining rebels

Members of United States-allied Awakening Councils have quit or been dismissed from their positions in significant numbers in recent months, prey to an intensive recruitment campaign by the Sunni insurgency, according to government officials, current and former members of the Awakening and insurgents. Although there are no firm figures, security and political officials say hundreds of the well-disciplined fighters — many of whom have gained extensive knowledge about the American military — appear to have rejoined Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. Beyond that, officials say that even many of the Awakening fighters still on the Iraqi government payroll, possibly thousands of them, covertly aid the insurgency.

Mr. Obama, can we please learn a lesson from "nationbuilding" failures in Iraq and get the hell out of Afghanistan? Our trillions would be better spent here. Our fight in the Middle East would be better served with drones, special forces, and pinpoint attacks, not nationbuilding with hundreds of thousands of American sons and daughters, trillions of dollars from a nation going bankrupt, and the loss of millions of human lives.... all for nill

**Patrick** · October-17-10, 01:33 PM

Our fight in the Middle East would be better served with drones, special forces, and pinpoint attacks

It was...and those types of operations require billions of dollars to fund.

**1KielsonDrive** · October-18-10, 12:31 AM

Yeah, but American and 'Coalition' [[wtf??) troops will be safe in the Green Zone, one of the largest military installations in the world. Well, maybe they'll be safe. The Green Zone still has to deal with a few missiles dropping in every now and then. What can we say besides, insanity, stupidity, foolishness, folly................add your own adjectives here.

**maxx** · October-18-10, 12:06 PM

Ah, yes, the Awakening Councils, the real power behind W's "surge". I guess we stopped paying them to kill other muslims.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/10...join-al-qaeda/
"...While the U.S. military initially supervised and paid the salaries of the Sahwa fighters, whose numbers peaked to about 100,000 in 2008, the Iraqi government took over the Sahwa from the Americans last year, agreeing to give at least 20 percent of the fighters police and government jobs and to pay the rest to maintain security in Sunni areas. Other fighters simply returned to their old jobs..."

**1KielsonDrive** · October-18-10, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by maxx

Ah, yes, the Awakening Councils, the real power behind W's "surge". I guess we stopped paying them to kill other muslims.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/10...join-al-qaeda/
"...While the U.S. military initially supervised and paid the salaries of the Sahwa fighters, whose numbers peaked to about 100,000 in 2008, the Iraqi government took over the Sahwa from the Americans last year, agreeing to give at least 20 percent of the fighters police and government jobs and to pay the rest to maintain security in Sunni areas. Other fighters simply returned to their old jobs..."

I've never figured out why we didn't just ship a few more pallets of money [[billions) over there, instead of invading, and hand it out. No troops, no bases, no fuss, no muss. It might've saved a few thousand American lives and a few tens of thousands of Iraqi lives.

**Papasito** · October-19-10, 04:22 PM

Stupid wars then, and stupid wars now.
As more and more Americans are jobless and falling into poverty.

**gibran** · October-19-10, 06:05 PM

papasito absolutely right....but think of it this way if McCain and Mama grizzly were elected we would have bombed Iran by now and then we could have joined Rome for sure... and when are we going to prosecute the neocons for this or at least send half the bill to our allies? I hope one day we only use our brave men and women fighting for our freedoms only when there is no hidden agendas in the war effort...they are such a great asset for our country... I would love to hear one neocon say the truth about this... instead of rationalizing..yes Saddam was a very bad man ...but they should have planned this better [[neocons influenced agencies)...for what would happen afterwards...we can win the battle...but it is the wars we are having difficulty with lately.

The truth is hidden in the shadows of the agendas... one day it will come out, and we will hopefully never again send and spend like we have for the past 8 years... Stop the privatization of war ..and give the monies back to our troops. Stop the conflict in the middle-east and give that money back to us... 9 billion a year would go along way to improving our schools and health...

**Gannon** · October-20-10, 12:30 AM

'Stopping the Privatization of War' would include removing the top bankers of the world who foment this evil any and every time they need to shake up a nation or more to continue their shitty chattel-gathering charade.

There is track record enough merely looking back in the Bush family tree, even back to the mid-1800s [[and probably further), to send the rest of 'em up the river for a long while. Some of the chief war-mongers, even IF ol' W had to be connived into playing along by his NeoCon conspirators.

When things don't go their way, people die.

At a very high level, it was decided that in order to continue this democratic republic experiment with a perpetually-growing capitalist economy, the US would HAVE to create occasional wars in order to give the system a bump every once in a while.

Then the oil starting running out, and the same doctrine had to be modified under duress. Hence the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are both about controlling resources and being available to influence near neighbors into complying with our gargantuan and very wasteful needs.

We are a nation of sick and fat slobs who will have a terrible time if the oil actually DOES run out. I think it was an idiotic idea to have this dark and crude substance be the driver of our economy and nation. Insidious stuff, this oil be.

No cheers...

**barnesfoto** · October-23-10, 08:18 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/w...ntractors.html

**1KielsonDrive** · October-25-10, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Stupid wars then, and stupid wars now.
As more and more Americans are jobless and falling into poverty.

Yes. Thank you for condensing my rant to a manageable two sentences.

**Patrick** · October-25-10, 07:28 PM

And that billion dollar-plus Dept of State compound is already falling apart because it was built by a bunch of Kuwaiti retards who got the favor from W.

**Papasito** · October-26-10, 12:24 PM

At least when we rebuilt Japan, the Japanese did something positive with thier country.
Iraq, and now Afghanistan, and .... next Iran?? are wasted efforts.

If Iraq was such a huge threat, how come we took that entire country over in 2 weeks?
What a joke.

If they aren't fighting us, they will fight each other, or someone else.
IMO we need to get the fk out of there and just buy our oil from whoever ends up in charge after the smoke settles.

**Papasito** · October-26-10, 12:29 PM

Who REALLY Won WWII?

MODERN DAY HIROSHIMA

MODERN DAY NAGASAKI

MODERN DAY DETROIT

**ghettopalmetto** · October-26-10, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Papasito

Stupid wars then, and stupid wars now.
As more and more Americans are jobless and falling into poverty.

You're only about eight years too late.

I'm shocked--SHOCKED, I tell you--that everything in the Iraq debacle has played out exactly as the "unpatriotic" anti-war folks predicted it would. George W. Bush can go fuck himself.

Still waiting for those flowers in the streets of Baghdad....

**1KielsonDrive** · October-26-10, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

You're only about eight years too late.

I'm shocked--SHOCKED, I tell you--that everything in the Iraq debacle has played out exactly as the "unpatriotic" anti-war folks predicted it would. George W. Bush can go fuck himself.

Still waiting for those flowers in the streets of Baghdad....

We seem to have a short memory as a nation. Just as we are approaching the election, everyone is all about republicrats and tea partiers. As bad as the demicans are, they weren't at the helm for the years 2000-2008, though they sure were helping to crew the boat. Our president elect made it a point to forgive, yes, I said forgive, the criminals slinking out of office. If you or I made one audible threat about the criminals who left office, they'd have our asses up on terrorism charges. Likely never to see daylight again. And we'd be splashed all over the news. More coverage than was ever given to the crimes of those guys.

**Patrick** · October-29-10, 07:04 PM

Suicide bomb kills 25 at crowded coffee shop
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...ex.html?hpt=T2

....and no one in America gives a shit. We are worried about things closer to home such as bills, mortgages, jobs, a sport team that never wins....we are out at the mall, basically. Now, if this happened in America, there would be telethons, memorial concerts, fundraisers and all sorts of outreach. Now that it happened in Iraq...it is out of sight/out of mind.