The Dingbat Revolution

[maxx]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/210904
"...A hall full of elderly white people in Medicare-paid scooters, railing against government spending and imagining themselves revolutionaries as they cheer on the vice-presidential puppet hand-picked by the GOP establishment. If there exists a better snapshot of everything the Tea Party represents, I can't imagine it..."

[Mikeg]

Of course, the Democrat candidate's re-electability problems are all the fault of somebody else, like those addled dingbats in the tea party. It's just not possible that their declining support is due to their leadership's unpopular and ineffective legislative agenda and their individual voting records on that legislation.

[gazhekwe]

I think the problem is, the crackpots are getting the mikes, and no reasonable person has stepped forward or taken on a similar role to direct more reasonable political discussion. The lunatics are running the asylum....

[Mikeg]

The lunatics are running the asylum....

But in the end, it will again be the so-called "independent" voters who will decide the outcomes of the House and Senate elections in November. They were the ones who handed the Executive Branch and both houses of the Legislative Branch to the Democrats back in Nov. 2008. If enough of them decide they didn't like the Democrat's legislative priorities and accomplishments over the past two years, they will revert to past form and deny the party of the White House their majority in the House - and possibly in the Senate, too.

If I were a Democrat, I'd be more worried about energizing my base and getting them to turn out and minimize the impact of the defecting independents. Instead, all I read is a bunch of hand-wringing over what is happening with the "tea party" voters and continuous ridiculing of some of the very voters who voted for Democrats two years ago.

[gazhekwe]

If I were a Democrat, I'd be more worried about energizing my base and getting them to turn out

Agreed. Too bad they don't seem wired that way, never have been.

[maxx]

Elections now turn on the "independent" voters in the mushy middle.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1739/ind...s-conservative
"...Independents are the largest group of voters -- 37% of registered voters are independents or other non-partisans, 34% are Democrats and 29% are Republicans...

By 44% to 29%, more independent voters say the Republican Party rather than the Democratic Party can better reduce the budget deficit; the GOP also now leads by a 42%-to-31% margin among independent voters as better able to manage the federal government. Yet far more independents [[49%) say the Democratic Party "is more concerned with the needs of people like me" than say that about the GOP [[32%)...."

So they are people who want to have their cake and eat it too.

[1KielsonDrive]

Of course, the Democrat candidate's re-electability problems are all the fault of somebody else, like those addled dingbats in the tea party. It's just not possible that their declining support is due to their leadership's unpopular and ineffective legislative agenda and their individual voting records on that legislation.

I could've never said it that nice and direct. I would've been ranting and raving. Thanks.

[maxx]

Mikeg: It's just not possible that their declining support is due to their leadership's unpopular and ineffective legislative agenda and their individual voting records on that legislation.

So what would you have recommended to stop the economic tailspin we were in? And you would have just let the for-profit healthcare industry to continue to raise premiums and deny people coverage?

[Papasito]

I think the problem is, the crackpots are getting the mikes, and no reasonable person has stepped forward or taken on a similar role to direct more reasonable political discussion.

and who's fault is that? i seem to remember Obama being perfectly capable of blabbing incessantly about the bright new tomorrow that was supposed to be today. don't play victim status when you know perfectly well that Democrats can run thier mouths just fine and dandy if they wish to.

instead of pushing thier ideals, dreams and beliefs, it is apparant the Democrat counter-strategy is going to be [[and currently is) personal attacks and the timed release of condemning information against thier opposition.

Keep in mind these are the very same folks who said personal attacks on Obama during the last Pres election were "off limits" and even got McCain to agree - to the point where he would condemn his own GOP's for something as simple as using Obama's middle name!

[Mikeg]

So what would you have recommended to stop the economic tailspin we were in? And you would have just let the for-profit healthcare industry to continue to raise premiums and deny people coverage?

Well, I would have recommended against the legislation that authorized that $0.8 trillion "stimulus" spending spree. The recession ended four months after that "stimulus" bill was passed and before any of that "stimulating" money could be spent on those supposedly "shovel-ready" projects and boondoggles. Here we are 19 months later and only about 70% of the "stimulus" money has been spent and the official US unemployment rate is still stuck in the range between 9% and 10%. Countries such as Germany which limited their "stimulus" spending and combined it with austerity measures have seen their economies recover much quicker and faster than the US.

The reason for Germany's quick recovery is that private consumption and public sector debt are tightly linked. Businesses and individuals are very reluctant to spend their money while facing an uncertain fiscal future.

Instead of focusing on getting the US government's fiscal house in order, Obama, Pelosi and Reid passed the mother of all stimulus bills [[generating a huge deficit) and then turned their attention to health insurance reform, which was low on the public's list of importance in the first place - even lower than their concern about the possibility and size of tax increases resulting from the impending expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts on Dec. 31, 2010. The resulting health insurance reform legislation just heaped more uncertainty on the plates of individuals and businesses, causing them to continue holding on to their purse strings and delaying solid and sustained economic growth. Then the electorate watches as the Democrat leadership of Congress abdicates their fundamental responsibility to formulate a 2011 budget and fails to pass even a single appropriations bill prior to the start of the 2011 fiscal year - and then adjourns for the elections without addressing the tax increases that are about to hit all income earners.

Dismiss the tea party activists and paint them as being a bunch of "dingbats" if it makes you feel superior, but there are millions more conservative and independent voters who share their concern that the current crop of congresscritters have taken this county over the economic cliff. Nov. 2nd is going to be a bad day for many, many incumbents.

[Papasito]

And you would have just let the for-profit healthcare industry to continue to raise premiums and deny people coverage?

Doing something just to "do something" does not = "good".
Rates are skyrocketing all across the country right now, premiums going up from 30 to 300%. Record amounts of businesses are finding it more economically favorable to drop employee coverage entirely and pay the fine for doing so versus continuing to offer employees health coverage. How has health care gotten better? It's a nightmare. And it's only going to get worse. I don't see premiums dropping or health care getting more affordable anytime soon...
unless, of course, you're an illegal, a union worker, a member of Congress, or something.

The rest of us are pretty much stuck. Private insurance is going to be so expensive that the only affordable option will be the Public option offered by the Government. The big kicker about ObamaCare is that rather than outrightly taking over the Health Care industry, they chose to do it this way instead - make private coverage get to the point of unaffordability and then the Government option is the only option.

I think they didn't do a complete Government takeover all at once because people would have freaked out.

And I think that they chose this method rather than implimenting price controls, interstate competition, and strict regulations because they want the ultimate goal of Government controlled health care. There's no other explanation.

[oladub]

All you libs need to suck it up and be of good cheer. A recent poll shows that Democratic candidates are closing the gap and gaining on Republicans. Cuomo is 24% ahead in NY. Dems are leading in the CA Senate and Governor race. Rubio's lead is slipping in FL. This must be because of all the recent good news. Obama's expanded war is going well in Afghanistan. Unemployment never reached 10% thanks to Porkulus. All consideration of the 2011 budget was swept under the rug until after the election. Obamacare effectively hides expanded corporate profits in health care. The banks were allowed to transfer bad assets to Fanny, Freddy, and US taxpayers because of last year's Christmas Eve executive order. Happy days are almost here again!

Poll: Democrats Pick Up Ground

[justanotherboy]

I am not sure where you get your snap shot. Polls show that one-in-three Black Americans say they support the Tea Party movement. The Tea Party has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats or white or black.

[maxx]

And just what is the German austerity plan?
http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...995113,00.html
"...

"The government should have postponed the cuts until the economy is really back on its feet again," Gustav Horn, director of the Macroeconomic Policy Institute in Düsseldorf, told TIME. He said the austerity plan was "piecemeal," made up of "real cuts in the social security system but halfhearted cuts to business," and pointed out that the financial-market-transaction tax was conditional on other countries' adopting it. "Chancellor Merkel could have introduced a tax on the wealthy and tougher measures against the banking sector — that would have made a difference," said Horn. Germany's focus on deficit reduction could end up affecting the global recovery..."

[quote]

[maxx]

Papasito: The big kicker about ObamaCare is that rather than outrightly taking over the Health Care industry, they chose to do it this way instead - make private coverage get to the point of unaffordability and then the Government option is the only option.

Health insurance was becoming less and less affordable over the past decade anyway. Premiums had doubled. Insurance companies were calling headaches and yeast infections pre-existing conditions. People were and are getting healthcare from enormous open-air fairs run by non-profits that usually service the third world. Seeing such a fair near where he lived convinced Wendell Potter that his company CIGNA and the U.S. healthcare industry were not on the right track. Read his interview with Bill Moyers on his Journal.

I think they didn't do a complete Government takeover all at once because people would have freaked out.

That's right. Some people feel they must have a particular doctor even though when they go to emergency, they are tended by the doctors on duty. The largest voting block is still people over 60.

And I think that they chose this method rather than implimenting price controls, interstate competition, and strict regulations because they want the ultimate goal of Government controlled health care.

Exchanges are supposed to go into effect in 2014, no doubt, because that is what the insurance companies wanted. This all happened prior to the Supreme Court ruling which allows Big Money to run all over our elections now so they were probably trying to keep the healthcare industry happy since the Republicans were just sitting on their hands.

[Detroitnerd]

I am not sure where you get your snap shot. Polls show that one-in-three Black Americans say they support the Tea Party movement. The Tea Party has nothing to do with Republicans or Democrats or white or black.

Oh, yeah. Sure, lots of blacks LOVE the Tea Party. This special Tea Party Poll said so.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...103699214.html
"Tea Party TV today unveiled the results of a special Tea Party poll, which revealed that about one-in-three [[32%) African Americans who are likely voters would vote for a candidate supported by the Tea Party movement."

Haha. Nothing like a lot of hayseed xenophobes trying all of a sudden to look like Martin Luther King Jr.

[rb336]

The anti-Virg ads seem to sum up the right-wing lunacy in a nutshell:

They attack Bernero for having people pay for services like ambulances and to join youth soccer. They want to lower taxes. how do they expect to pay for those things if they want no user fees or taxes to pay for them? oh, yeah. turn them all over to the private sector so they can charge whatever fees they want.

[oladub]

The anti-Virg ads seem to sum up the right-wing lunacy in a nutshell:

They attack Bernero for having people pay for services like ambulances and to join youth soccer. They want to lower taxes. how do they expect to pay for those things if they want no user fees or taxes to pay for them? oh, yeah. turn them all over to the private sector so they can charge whatever fees they want.

What are 'The anti-Virg ads'? Is youth soccer now a government entiltlement? How about baseball and volleyball?. One of my kid's was in youth soccer. The soccer fields were owned and maintained by a city and it's school district 25 miles away. Field maintainance was probably the largest expense. Howerver, uniforms, orginization, insurance, and other expenses were shared by McDonald's, the Rotary Club, and parents. From what I've heard, high school sports in Europe are after school activites not associated with school budgets for those here who exemplify European progessivism.

Charging such things as ambulance fees and youth soccer expenses are local government decisions. Some communities will agreee to such things. Others won't. It is up to the respective communities.

[Papasito]

The whole problem with the "Tea Party" movement is summed up pretty well in this article:

The rising Tea Party faction talks a lot about slashing taxes and spending, but lacks specifics. Beyond being anti-choice and pro-guns, there really is no subject on which they are delving into the nuts and bolts of what's wrong with government spending and dissecting what needs to be done. Cutting taxes and spending are noble notions, but without concrete details and plans behind them they are simply that: notions.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-k..._b_750982.html

The movement lacks the legitimacy it needs, because the candidates need to be factual and specific and show a focused vision for achieving thier intended goals. Anyone can promise brighter days, or even a utopia .... http://articles.cnn.com/2008-01-26/p..._s=PM:POLITICS ... but to actually deliver it requires some intelligent pre planning and realistic methods to achieve realistic goals.

[maxx]

The Tea Party:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...w=1024&bih=604

[rb336]

What are 'The anti-Virg ads'? Is youth soccer now a government entiltlement? How about baseball and volleyball?. One of my kid's was in youth soccer. The soccer fields were owned and maintained by a city and it's school district 25 miles away. Field maintainance was probably the largest expense. Howerver, uniforms, orginization, insurance, and other expenses were shared by McDonald's, the Rotary Club, and parents. From what I've heard, high school sports in Europe are after school activites not associated with school budgets for those here who exemplify European progessivism.

Charging such things as ambulance fees and youth soccer expenses are local government decisions. Some communities will agreee to such things. Others won't. It is up to the respective communities.

evidently, the republicans now think soccer SHOULD be an entitlement, judging from those ads. just one they think they should have without having to pay for it.
and yes, in this day and age of declining revenues, after school sports should be the FIRST thing on the chopping block instead of actual educational programs

[Relayer76]

And I think that they chose this method rather than implimenting price controls, interstate competition, and strict regulations because they want the ultimate goal of Government controlled health care. There's no other explanation.

So what is the problem with that. It is the way that the rest of the developed world does it and it works relatively well. If you remove the profits of the private companies you remove part of the cost.

[maxx]

Originally Posted by Papasito
And I think that they chose this method rather than implimenting price controls, interstate competition, and strict regulations because they want the ultimate goal of Government controlled health care.

Why aren't price controls gov. controlled health care?

[johnsmith]

The movement lacks the legitimacy it needs, because the candidates need to be factual and specific and show a focused vision for achieving their intended goals.

Are you kidding? Name ONE political party or politician that fulfills that qualification [[besides Ron Paul). They ALL speak in vague ambiguous terms.

[Jimaz]

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