Detroiters on detroityes?

[southsider]

Why do we use this board? What good does it do? I have personally looked for advice and inspiration, but I find it laced with skepticism and insults. What I've mostly wanted to get a feel for is when will the tide turn? At what point have we hit rock bottom and have begun to find our natural level? We will never be the Detroit of the industrial age, but at point will we start to see the kind of optimism on this board that indicates that we have found our comfortable stride or is this our place in society: a deteriorating city with full of skeptics, separatists, and haters. What's the tipping point and how do we use detroityes to turn the corner towards positive growth?

[kryptonite]

Southsider, don't be discouraged. True, there is more negativity on this site than in all national media combined, but there is a lot to learn about the Detroit area by monitoring Dyes and posting questions and comments.

Cranks are on every web blog, making crude, profane, insulting remarks. It's probably some social psychology phenomenon. Try not to let your feelings get hurt when someone takes a shot at you or someone else on this site. From what I see of internet blogs some people just want to hurt the feelings of well-meaning posters. I have even seen some awful responses on religious blogs.

[Lowell]

This question has surfaced several times over the life of this forum and my response will be the same as before.

Actually count the number of negative threads and posts and you will find that they comprise less than 10% of the total, probably less. They will be far outnumbered by the number positive posts, those about history, current happenings, Detroit minutiae, etc. Yet somehow the negative ones seem to be magnified.

"Ten thousand planes landing safely every day is not news."

[Elouise]

Southsider, there's a great lead article at CNN.com right now - Detroit Shatters Stereotypes of Blight - which may give you some encouragement. [[If you read the comments, however, you will see the same old tired bitter comments that we are used to reading.) But it makes me feel great when I see young people out doing things in spite of everything. That's how things change. Good luck and keep on trying.

[RealityCheck]

I use it to share and find useful heads-ups about articles, events, history [[Shorpy!) and topics worth discussing.

I enjoy the passionate, informed, generally mature colloquy and ignore what I don't enjoy.

It's a big forum, southsider, with plenty of value and plenty of opportunities to contribute. Heck, most normal folks even resist the impulse to toss around ten-buck words such as colloquy.

[fryar]

Civic Discourse.

Reminiscing about an old warehouse or whatever I will glance at and say, "my, what a lovely waterfront hotel that was, in the 20ies," but really what I come here for is civic dialogue about civic issues.

Not to say I don't think it's awesome what a collective treasure trove of information is on this board. Name me a place in the real world where you can find all of this good stuff. Try standing in a train station, picking up the paper to read about a spate of fires across the city, and then happen to have multiple knowledgeable people start discussing how long it's been since suburban fire engines helped out as well. Good luck with that.

[n7hn]

Sad thing is, for people looking for info on detroit that may not be in the city, seem more apt to actually give credibility to the negative. Same principal as to someone complaining about a restaurant they havent been to and telling many others who accept the news rather than see for themselves. The media goes a long way to support the negative.

[blackmath]

I think a lot of this board shows the weird Detroit sense of humor. To an outsider looking for information about this city and surrounding areas they might get put off a bit by our slings and arrows back and forth, but it's almost always out of our hard edged Detroit good nature, and to me that shows a tiny slice of the intrinsic character of this city which you wont see in any travel brochure, ruin porn or youtube video.

You have to be tough, a little weird and a little crazy to live here, but that's always been the case...

[canuck]

This question has surfaced several times over the life of this forum and my response will be the same as before.

Actually count the number of negative threads and posts and you will find that they comprise less than 10% of the total, probably less. They will be far outnumbered by the number positive posts, those about history, current happenings, Detroit minutiae, etc. Yet somehow the negative ones seem to be magnified.

"Ten thousand planes landing safely every day is not news."

Yep I believe that, and also the fact that if you counted expat comments about the city, you will find a lot of wannabe detroiters vs detractors. And you could call the ambivalent ones Detroit Tractors!

[jackie5275]

Like I said before, I use it for great history threads & to get the pulse of Detroit on current events. Yeah, there's a lot of sniping going on, but you get more honest, accurate opinions here than reading the comment sections of the 2 dailies websites.

[jonathanlivingstonseagull]

The forum is for Detroit nostalgia and there is a lot of it.

[hhockey]

I find DYES to be very informative ,and that it truly reflects how people feel on a myriad of topics. Is there some negativity of course, but where isn't there negativity? I find myself laughing at posts, shaking my head at other posts, and becoming down right angry at others. I have learned many things since joining in on DYES and i believe you will too. Keep the faith and keep on reading.

[Brittz]

I come here to find information mainly on current events. I get a lot of laughs also.

[mittengal]

I've been reading this forum for about 2 months & finally posted for the first time on the Detroit 1-8-7 thread. I was born @ Mt. Carmel & lived on the west side--Quincy St, Evergreen Ave, & Salem, right behind the Dairy Queen @ 7/Grand. I have been gone for quite a while & now live in Seattle. May be back some day, who knows? My family has all moved out of D & live in White Lake, Linden, & Grand Rapids. Also some in Florida. Sorry if this info is a rerun. I think this forum is a great way to learn about what is happening in Detroit & the complicated reasons for the decline. IMO, bottom has been hit & Detroit is on the way up, but it will not be quick or easy. I like reading people's memories about the past. I've learned lot from my 2 elderly aunts who grew up in Highland Park. I was estranged from my family through misunderstndings [[long story) but back in touch for several years. This forum fits right in. I think the sarcastic, "trolling" remarks of a few posters are uncalled for. It's not a Detroit thing, there are negative people everywhere, including here in Seattle, which is considered a polite city. That's one reason I waited to post [[the other reason is I had nothing to say) but if some don't like my post, troll away!

[SWMAP]

Southsider asks: "Why do we use this board? What good does it do? I have personally looked for advice and inspiration, but I find it laced with skepticism and insults."

Susan Dominus it the New York Times recently observed this about perceived incivility and negativity on community boards:

"But reading these exchanges, I found myself thinking about an airline pilot, memorialized in Malcom Gladwell's book "Outliers," who lets the plane go down rather than insult his more senior co-pilot. There is not much to be said for rudeness or class baiting; but maybe there is something to be said for a forum where people can speak freely, even bluntly, about topics they would normally dance around politely with strangers.
The challenge lies in balancing that free, uncensored honesty with enough civility that the opportunity to break down walls, post by post, is not wasted."

[Whitehouse]

Well, there is a fair share of negative threads about the demise of certain buildings. Highlights are:
Lafayette building
Packard
Studebaker
MCS
East town theater.
Fine arts building/Adams theater
Tiger stadium.
And of course Kwame...

On the positive side there are:
Cadillac hotel
Sports facilities
Wayne hotel
Detroit as a movie location
Garwood Mansion is a laugh
Bars opening
Fox

Fill in the gaps.

[fryar]

Well, there is a fair share of negative threads about the demise of certain buildings. Highlights are:
Lafayette building
Packard
Studebaker
MCS
East town theater.
Fine arts building/Adams theater
Tiger stadium.
And of course Kwame...

On the positive side there are:
Cadillac hotel
Sports facilities
Wayne hotel
Detroit as a movie location
Garwood Mansion is a laugh
Bars opening
Fox

Fill in the gaps.

The Wurlitzer Building.

I think this forum is a great way to learn about what is happening in Detroit & the complicated reasons for the decline. IMO, bottom has been hit & Detroit is on the way up, but it will not be quick or easy.

I agree with you on both counts, although I think one may have to be selective about the bottom having been hit already in every way. You never know what absurd tragicomedy is around the corner - seems like only yesterday we heard about crown vics being used as ambulances, maybe tomorrow, cops will start skateboarding. But in some ways, I agree that the bottom has probably been hit. In a blighted city in which civility seems to have regressed, there are outposts of civility and civic engagement that are fertile soil for growth. Down the road, Detroit may give Seattle a run for its money on some kind of artsy/alternative/raw angle. While I suppose you can't be the same class of banker in the D that you can be in NYC, the dream that led that banker to live in a loft in Williamsburg is more accessible in Detroit, where the neighbor in the next loft over may indeed turn out to be a dude with dreadlocks who composes long-winded prose about the ill-treatment of indigenous peoples or is dedicated wholesale to a revolution in urban farming or some such supposedly ill-conceived dreamery. Your neighbor in Williamsburg, he's in commercial real estate. He thought you might be that dreadlocked guy, and not a banker.

So it's on a pig, it's still lip stick. And there's value there, somewhere. Same goes for the community gardens, for example, or the rehabilitation projects. These are the foundation of greater civic-mindedness on the part of those who remain once the economic dislocation has ended, and there's value to that as well.

This is fryar, smug mofo, signing off.

[kryptonite]

My 2c says Detroit is on the mend. I am so glad to be here and seeing the beginnings of many positive changes in the city. Of course the changes are not happening in most of the city, but for once there seems to be a positive trend downtown, Midtown, SW, Woodbridge, Eastern Market, etc.

Granted, as Fryar said it is lipstick on a pig, but as he suggested, most of us Detroiters have had no illusions about that.

[tallboy66]

I'm smarmy for sure and left Michigan in 2003, NYC, Columbus Ohio and back to Illinois where I lived as a kid. Chicago is the midwest city.

[DetroitDad]

Why do we use this board? What good does it do? I have personally looked for advice and inspiration, but I find it laced with skepticism and insults. What I've mostly wanted to get a feel for is when will the tide turn? At what point have we hit rock bottom and have begun to find our natural level? We will never be the Detroit of the industrial age, but at point will we start to see the kind of optimism on this board that indicates that we have found our comfortable stride or is this our place in society: a deteriorating city with full of skeptics, separatists, and haters. What's the tipping point and how do we use detroityes to turn the corner towards positive growth?

DetroitYES.com is exactly like Detroit.

It is what it is. What you get from it all, and what you do with it, is up to you, and you alone.

[mwilbert]

I don't find it that negative in general. I hardly think it would be reasonable to expect things to always be positive. "Boy I sure am impressed by those Detroit Public Schools!" "Great to see the Lafayette Building demolished to make way for gravel!"

There is really no comparison in intelligence or civility when you compare it to nominally similar things like the Freep comments section [[which they really should just give up on, in my opinion.)

[agirlintheD]

What do I get from this site? Lots of knowledge. I find it amazing how someone can ask a question about Detroit and literally, within minutes, someone provides an answer [[often times with great pics). There are the occasional squabbles and disagreements. I get a connection to a city where a great many of us grew up and love[[d) and hate to see what it has become. I get insight and memories. I come here to learn, to remember, to laugh, to share and to connect with people from a really great city....as DetroitDad said, "DetroitYES.com is exactly like Detroit.
It is what it is. What you get from it all, and what you do with it, is up to you, and you alone". Pop some corn, kick your shoes off and enjoy Detroit through our eyes [[and no, I don't think any of us are wearing rose colored glasses...we see what Detroit has become).

[fanniemae]

This is a decent forum to find out info. There are a few trolls that love to bait, quote of context and the like. You get that anywhere. There are many nice people here. Got to start somewhere.

[Hamtragedy]

As I've posted before, the "bottom" in this town seems to redefine itself almost daily. I remember thinking that after the crack epidemic, things would again return to resemble "normalcy," and to me "normalcy" was my formative years in the 70's and 80's in a beautiful mixed-race working-class neighborhood that had some good and some bad schools-kids-neighbors-parents, etc, that we all learned to live with and actually thought of ourselves as fortunate, even unique, to all have grown up together and see as much, good with the bad, as we had actually seen.

And as we became adults, we realized that the situation we grew up in, where those who were tolerant stayed, and screw everyone else, made this town even more our very own. We were all schooled in the community, at recreation centers, at local parks, at churches by parents, teachers, police officers, adults, who made time for us. And alot of us gave back and still give back, and are teachers, volunteers at the rec center, and parents who still play basketball in the backyard with their kids friends.

But we watched businesses board up in our own neighborhoods and once thriving neighborhood shopping centers anchored by national and local chains go out of business and big buildings sit vacant for years. We watched schools' test scores go down, close and then get vandalized. We waited for the police to show up when we got broken into and then they questioned us why we still lived here. And this was in the early 90's.

We didn't think it could get worse, but it did. But we had a ray of hope, the moment our parents had mostly drawn tired of waiting for. And then it happened. By the late 90's and early 2000s, this town experienced the turn around we were all proud of, but also knew something was missing, as the infrastructure was neglected despite the enormous profits. And just as quickly, poof, it was gone.

An industry collapse followed by a housing bust and the county tax foreclosures that make up half the Sunday newspaper, the one we used to deliver, to the houses listed on those same foreclosure rolls. We watched our childhood homes become vacant, boarded up, scrapped, then burn to the ground, and our neighborhood disappear in 30 years. 30 years and I'm barely 40.

I frequent this forum because it is reality. We don't know where the bottom is and we're not really surprised by much of anything anymore because we know better. But most of us realize that the "normalcy" we associate with functioning cities has always been a pipe dream, and we can only wonder what fascinating re-invention Detroit is capable of. Are we on the verge of it? Not yet. Is it this decade? Not sure. Is it in my lifetime? I sure as the fuck hope so.

[carlscomputers]

I have not been here that long, but I really enjoy the diversity of the board! People have said negative/different things which have made me look at my ideology from a different perspective. Sometimes we are so one dimensional because we believe strongly in an idea & only look at it from our own viewpoint & sometimes we need a little nudge of an opposing view. I say all that to say that I personally like the negativity, cynicism, etc. Sometimes you need the "bad" to appreciate the "good"?