Felons allowed to apply for city jobs!

Buy American · September-28-10, 11:20 AM

http://www.freep.com/article/2010092...m-applications

Detroit is doomed. Now, thug KK can apply and get a job and work his way back up the ladder to become mayor again. Clowncil is hard at work taking care of City business.

**iheartthed** · September-28-10, 11:29 AM

OMG the world is gonna end. Detroit's unemployment rate might actually drop! ::GASP::

**gazhekwe** · September-28-10, 11:36 AM

How are felons who have served their time and been released from prison supposed to make a living if they can't work?

**Lowell** · September-28-10, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

How are felons who have served their time and been released from prison supposed to make a living if they can't work?

Take up a life of crime?

Sheesh give them a chance to get straight.

**Johnnny5** · September-28-10, 12:09 PM

I'm all for rehabilitated ex felons being able to reenter the workforce, but this is just plain stupidity [[Even for the Clownsil). A criminal record should not permanently bar someone from working for the City, but it has to be taken into consideration in the hiring process. Should Detroit hire those convicted of violent crimes to be police officers? Or those with history of felony embezzlement to handle the City's finances? [[OK, maybe they would be an improvement

)

Hopefully this is simply a change to the initial application process, and criminal records will be considered later on in the hiring process. To not even ask the question is just asking for trouble...............

**bailey** · September-28-10, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

How are felons who have served their time and been released from prison supposed to make a living if they can't work?

Originally Posted by Lowell

Take up a life of crime?

Sheesh give them a chance to get straight.

So instead of asking about the felony and maybe viewing in context of the person's present status and abilities, the City isn't going ask AT ALL!?! Can't wait until the first arrest of some multi and recent felony offender who only got a job because the felony wasn't a disqualifier. That will play really well.

However, setting aside the lunacy of NOT EVEN BEING ALLOWED TO ASK ABOUT FELONIES, why is CoD government viewed by so many as an employment agency? Shouldn't the much talked about 'right sizing' start with the bloated city workforce? They should be raising the bar for employment not lowering it.

Blarf · September-28-10, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

How are felons who have served their time and been released from prison supposed to make a living if they can't work?

Exactly.

You do your time for a reason. If they are qualified or good at a certain job, than they should have the chance to get that job.

**iheartthed** · September-28-10, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

So instead of asking about the felony and maybe viewing in context of the person's present status and abilities, the City isn't going ask AT ALL!?! Can't wait until the first arrest of some multi and recent felony offender who only got a job because the felony wasn't a disqualifier. That will play really well.

However, setting aside the lunacy of NOT EVEN BEING ALLOWED TO ASK ABOUT FELONIES, why is CoD government viewed by so many as an employment agency? Shouldn't the much talked about 'right sizing' start with the bloated city workforce? They should be raising the bar for employment not lowering it.

It's not that the city is viewed as an employment agency, but they are the standard bearer for employment policies within the city of Detroit. How can they encourage employers within the city to de-emphasize criminal histories of potential applicants if their own hiring policy doesn't allow them do so that?

**lalynch** · September-28-10, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by gazhekwe

How are felons who have served their time and been released from prison supposed to make a living if they can't work?

There are programs to get felons to work. Wayne Metropolitan Community Action Agency of Wyandotte has such a program. And businesses get some sort of a tax credit if they hire felons. My husband's cousin owns a car wash in Lenawee County and often hires felons from the local prison for the car wash.

**crosswordgirl** · September-28-10, 01:13 PM

http://www.michigan.gov/corrections/...218---,00.html

while agreeing that it is very difficult to get a job with a felony on your record, it is by far
not the only reason that those with felonies remain unemployed.

**bailey** · September-28-10, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

It's not that the city is viewed as an employment agency, but they are the standard bearer for employment policies within the city of Detroit. How can they encourage employers within the city to de-emphasize criminal histories of potential applicants if their own hiring policy doesn't allow them do so that?

There is a difference between "de emphasize" and ignore. The City is taking the questions off the table. Meaning there will be no inquiry at all into the past criminal history of an applicant. I understand the position that a felony in one's past should not always be an automatic disqualification. However, they went to the extreme in the other direction and made it NEVER a disqualifier.

**gazhekwe** · September-28-10, 01:33 PM

The Elliott-Larsen Civil Rights Act prohibits employers from asking about arrest record. Note, they could ask about felony charges and convictions, and now misdemeanor convictions. There are exceptions for law enforcement. Here is the pertinent part of the act:

Sec. 205a. [[1) An employer, employment agency, or labor organization, other than a law enforcement agency
of this state or a political subdivision of this state, shall not in connection with an application for employment or membership, or in connection with the terms, conditions, or privileges of employment or membership request, make, or maintain a record of information regarding a misdemeanor arrest, detention, or disposition where a conviction did not result. A person is not guilty of perjury or otherwise giving a false statement by failing to recite or acknowledge information the person has a civil right to withhold by this section. This section shall not apply to information relative to a felony charge before conviction or dismissal.

It is presumably legal to deny hire if the person was convicted of a felony, however, to deny hire of qualified persons based upon a distantly past or unrelated felony or misdemeanor is not good for the community as a whole.

lilpup · September-28-10, 01:55 PM

Most places do background checks on applicants so felonies will turn up anyway. All removing the question does is encourage people to apply who otherwise might not.

**bailey** · September-28-10, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

Most places do background checks on applicants so felonies will turn up anyway. All removing the question does is encourage people to apply who otherwise might not.

Well, then removing the questions doesn't accomplish the stated goal of employing former felons then does it? If a felony is going to be a disqualifyer why expend the resources on an interview and then a background check? Why not ask up front? Here's a simple statement that could be on the application : "Certain felony convictions will disqualify the applicant from holding certain positions with the city of Detroit. Do you have any felony convictions? If Yes, please explain".

**iheartthed** · September-28-10, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

There is a difference between "de emphasize" and ignore. The City is taking the questions off the table. Meaning there will be no inquiry at all into the past criminal history of an applicant. I understand the position that a felony in one's past should not always be an automatic disqualification. However, they went to the extreme in the other direction and made it NEVER a disqualifier.

I'm pretty your background can still be a disqualifier when appropriate, such as in applying for the police department. And aside from those obvious special cases, I don't see why a person's previous felony convictions should ever be a disqualifier. Is there some type of research that says convicted felons are prone to workplace violence?

lilpup · September-28-10, 02:54 PM

The question alone dissuades people from applying because they assume they're automatically out.

The nature of the felony and the position applied for make a difference e.g. a theft/fraud conviction obviously would not be desirable if the job is a money handling position but if the felony is for drunk driving or no personal flotation device on a boat [[yes, that's a felony) it's another matter.

**Hermod** · September-28-10, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I'm pretty your background can still be a disqualifier when appropriate, such as in applying for the police department. And aside from those obvious special cases, I don't see why a person's previous felony convictions should ever be a disqualifier. Is there some type of research that says convicted felons are prone to workplace violence?

Hiring a pedophile sex offender to work in a youth program?

Hiring a rapist to go house-to-house for the city?

**iheartthed** · September-28-10, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Hermod

Hiring a pedophile sex offender to work in a youth program?

Hiring a rapist to go house-to-house for the city?

Number one is clearly an obvious disqualifier. As for two, unless your gonna make all convicted rapists walk around with a scarlet R sewn into their shirts then barring them from jobs dealing with the general public is much ado about nothing.

And in both cases the ex-con's history is already public information due to the sex offender registry.

**bailey** · September-28-10, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Number one is clearly an obvious disqualifier. As for two, unless your gonna make all convicted rapists walk around with a scarlet R sewn into their shirts then barring them from jobs dealing with the general public is much ado about nothing.

And in both cases the ex-con's history is already public information due to the sex offender registry.

Ok, how about felony embezzler working in payroll? But clearly you're missing the point. The city now is saying it's not legal to EVEN ASK ABOUT THE FELONY ON THE APPLICATION. they are NOT saying it's ok to ask and then apply the facts.

Officials say thousands of felons live in the city, many of them qualified and ambitious. But many don't get a chance at an interview once employers see they have a felony.
Read more: Detroit council votes to remove felonies question from city applications | freep.com | Detroit Free Press http://www.freep.com/article/2010092...#ixzz10rCXUjp4

**SWMAP** · September-28-10, 03:22 PM

"Should Detroit hire those convicted of violent crimes to be police officers? Or those with history of felony embezzlement to handle the City's finances? [[OK, maybe they would be an improvement

)"

I may be wrong, but I believe that Mayor Coleman A. Young I did direct that the City could hire persons with felony convictions for the DPD because the City was having a hard time finding African American candidates and Young had campaigned on a promise to make the DPD a majority Black force representative of a majority Black city. My source is that I had a lot of friends who were police officers then and they were genuinely horrified as they felt the directive cut at the heart of the force. previously you had to have an impeccable record before hiring in - down to no driving or parking tickets ever on your record.

**iheartthed** · September-28-10, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by bailey

Ok, how about felony embezzler working in payroll? But clearly you're missing the point. The city now is saying it's not legal to EVEN ASK ABOUT THE FELONY ON THE APPLICATION. they are NOT saying it's ok to ask and then apply the facts.

Key word application. It's not illegal to ask during the interview or background screening process. What was your point again?

**Johnnny5** · September-28-10, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

The question alone dissuades people from applying because they assume they're automatically out.

The nature of the felony and the position applied for make a difference e.g. a theft/fraud conviction obviously would not be desirable if the job is a money handling position but if the felony is for drunk driving or no personal flotation device on a boat [[yes, that's a felony) it's another matter.

Seriously?

I spend a lot of time on the water, and have never heard that before..

Buy American · September-28-10, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

"Should Detroit hire those convicted of violent crimes to be police officers? Or those with history of felony embezzlement to handle the City's finances? [[OK, maybe they would be an improvement

)"

I may be wrong, but I believe that Mayor Coleman A. Young I did direct that the City could hire persons with felony convictions for the DPD because the City was having a hard time finding African American candidates and Young had campaigned on a promise to make the DPD a majority Black force representative of a majority Black city. My source is that I had a lot of friends who were police officers then and they were genuinely horrified as they felt the directive cut at the heart of the force. previously you had to have an impeccable record before hiring in - down to no driving or parking tickets ever on your record.

If I'm not mistakened, they did hire felons on the police force many years ago and it was a total disaster. I heard that most of the ones they did hire are now gone.

Right now, a potential police recruit has to have an impeccalble record, not even traffic tickets. The City of Detroit Police Department have a list of qualified people just waiting for the call...but, of course, there is no money[[?). [[Just ask Puke). ...and, most of the recruits are from the suburbs...that's why the felony question is being removed from applications. I wonder if a felon from Birmingham will have the same considerations as one from Detroit?

**menckensghost** · September-28-10, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by lalynch

There are programs to get felons to work. Wayne Metropolitan Community Action Agency of Wyandotte has such a program. And businesses get some sort of a tax credit if they hire felons. My husband's cousin owns a car wash in Lenawee County and often hires felons from the local prison for the car wash.

Yes! A car wash job is exactly the sort of thing that will turn one away from a life of crime.

I'm not quite sure of the statistics, but I think most of the elected officials have committed felonies while in office.

What is the big deal? Give these folks a real chance at a new start.

**313WX** · September-28-10, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Buy American

http://www.freep.com/article/2010092...m-applications

Detroit is doomed. Now, thug KK can apply and get a job and work his way back up the ladder to become mayor again. Clowncil is hard at work taking care of City business.

Ok...

Felons apply for jobs everywhere, it's hardly unique to Detroit. Besides, there's a distinct difference between APPLYING for a job and actually getting the job.